investigating Large performance drop in VR after updating to 2.8

[slughead]

1 hour ago, Dangerzone said:

Are you running shadows? If you turn them off is there a significant improvement (to being better than 2.7)?

Not that I can tell. It’s still worse than 2.7 with shadows off.

[gitbse]

@BIGNEWY I'd like to add what I found tonight. I did some testing with the same graphics settings, and found that there is a *significant* difference in the performance between models.

My rig:

i9 10900k, 5.2ghz; 6900xt slight overclock; 64gb DDR4, running off m.2 SSD; Valve index. In-game graphics settings are included in a screenshot.

I mainly fly the Apache on MP servers, so I took it so NTTR, instant action. I had very similar performance on this instant start map as I do on MP servers. It was limited to 40fps, no matter what.... however the ctrl-Pause FPS counter showed a frame time of .1ms, consistently.

I then got in the F14, same map. Hot start, instant action. There was an *absolutely noticeable* difference. I could run 60fps no problem, from ground all the way to 40k. Smooth running, no problems. The clouds are still ... eh... but the graphics and the straight out performance is drastically different. Same thing in the F16. Wonderful flying, no stutters, no frames dropped, 60fps solid all the way. Screenshots included of the in-game performance but kinda hard to read. The screenshot with the Mirage is actually from the Apache cockpit.

Same thing happens on my squad's MP servers. There is a significant difference in performance. The Apache (my main frame unfortunately) cannot, and will not break 40fps, sometimes chugging to <30 depending where I'm looking. The 14, 16, 18? Awesome. 55-60fps even on a decently heavy MP server.

Again, the screenshots of the ingame performance tab didn't come out well, but it can kinda be read. You can however see the graph, and the Apache at 40fps is .... somehow holding the same frame time as the others at 60. Odd.

 

I can't emphasize enough the difference between model experiences in game. The Apache visual performance is sluggish, choppy, and at some points bad enough to where it's hard to fly it properly. 20fps is rough in VR. Same maps, both MP and offline, 14 and 16 are excellent. I know there have been mixed reviews from different users from a performance stance for 2.8, but I didn't expect myself to become a benchmark for each side.

 

I can provide better performance screenshots if necessary. I'm not sure how much that performance tab would help in troubleshooting, but I'm ready to help sort this performance issue out. If all VR performance could be like how the 14 is flying right now in game, it would be excellent. For some reason though, different models fly remarkably differently in VR performance.

[Lt_Jaeger]

@gitbse

Did you ever tried to lower the texture setting one step and raising terrain texture the same time. For me it fixed the AH-64 performance with not too much loss of visual fidelity. I think it is worth a try. 

[exil]

17 minutes ago, Lt_Jaeger said:

@gitbse

Did you ever tried to lower the texture setting one step and raising terrain texture the same time. For me it fixed the AH-64 performance with not too much loss of visual fidelity. I think it is worth a try. 

This! I had the exact same issue. Lowering textures to medium was the solution. 

There is also a 2k cockpit textures mod that is sopposed to solve the problem. 

[Wizard1393]

12 hours ago, Dangerzone said:

Are you running shadows? If you turn them off is there a significant improvement (to being better than 2.7)?

Yes. Turning all shadows off increases performance to roughly the level it was at in 2.7 with flat shadows only. 

[zildac]

50 minutes ago, Wizard1393 said:

Yes. Turning all shadows off increases performance to roughly the level it was at in 2.7 with flat shadows only. 

This!! I turned my shadows from Medium to OFF and immediately got back up to 82 FPS (2.7 was 86FPS with medium shadows ). But it looks crap

 

[gitbse]

25 minutes ago, zildac said:

This!! I turned my shadows from Medium to OFF and immediately got back up to 82 FPS (2.7 was 86FPS with medium shadows ). But it looks crap

 

Shadows do not make a difference in my performance. I usually use low or flat anyways, but even low to off made no framerate change. I haven't tried general texture changes, but I did try the cockpit screen resolution, with no difference. I'll give the textures a try next.

[Convexrook]

On 10/30/2022 at 9:39 AM, slughead said:

It is a "beta" release. Bugs are to be expected.

I think he meant they need someone to test in VR only. nothing to do with "Bugs are expected".

[zildac]

5 minutes ago, Convexrook said:

I think he meant they need someone to test in VR only. nothing to do with "Bugs are expected".

Quite...

[NineLine]

Guys, this is a bug reporting thread, please report what you are seeing with specs (preferably a dxdiag file) and anything else you think would help. The jokes, insults and bickering makes it hard to impossible to collect useful data for use to us.

Also please stop dumping on our testers, this will not get you a spot on the testing team. We have people that fly in VR all the time we have many different players. We saw similar results in Testing, and now we need more data with Open Beta. You are not forced to help out, but please do not post in a bug thread if you do not want to post useful information.

Thanks.

 

[zildac]

Guys, this is a bug reporting thread, please report what you are seeing with specs (preferably a dxdiag file) and anything else you think would help. The jokes, insults and bickering makes it hard to impossible to collect useful data for use to us.
Also please stop dumping on our testers, this will not get you a spot on the testing team. We have people that fly in VR all the time we have many different players. We saw similar results in Testing, and now we need more data with Open Beta. You are not forced to help out, but please do not post in a bug thread if you do not want to post useful information.
Thanks.
 

Whilst I appreciate what you're saying the statement "We have people that fly in VR all the time we have many different players. We saw similar results in Testing, and now we need more data with Open Beta" then why not explicitly mention these known pre existing issues at least in the changelog? I suspect the reaction would have been far more positive.

[exil]

2 hours ago, NineLine said:

Guys, this is a bug reporting thread, please report what you are seeing with specs (preferably a dxdiag file) and anything else you think would help. The jokes, insults and bickering makes it hard to impossible to collect useful data for use to us.

Also please stop dumping on our testers, this will not get you a spot on the testing team. We have people that fly in VR all the time we have many different players. We saw similar results in Testing, and now we need more data with Open Beta. You are not forced to help out, but please do not post in a bug thread if you do not want to post useful information.

Thanks.

 

Not actually a bug report, but maybe it helps:

 

[WipeUout]

11 hours ago, NineLine said:

Guys, this is a bug reporting thread

You are absolutely right.  I think a lot lost the primary objective of this beta version which is to identify and squash bugs before it goes stable.  Seems that the "early" access to new features and platforms became the primary reason to opt in the OB, forgetting why it is there mainly.

I would also agree though that some warning before hand would've changed the reaction greatly. 

Edited November 2, 2022 by WipeUout
Typo

[Canada_Moose]

I thought 2.8 was supposedly bringing performance improvements in VR? It seems the direct opposite was actually noted by the beta testers. Strange.

[some1]

The "Flat" terrain objects shadows are still broken in today's patch (DCS 2.8.0.32235.1). The performance drop with flat shadows is the same as shown in the first post in this thread.

Setting the shadows to OFF returns performance roughly to the level of DCS 2.7. Except without objects shadows on the ground. 

Edited November 2, 2022 by some1

[WipeUout]

Sadly I have to report a further drop in VR performance with 2.8.0.32235.1.  In my test track, I now have a 9.4% drop in FPS, it was previously 7.5% with 2.8.0.32066.  The drop is caused by increased GPU frame time almost exclusively.

Version                 Average FPS

2.7.18.30765              59.3

2.8.0.32066              54.8

2.8.0.32235.1            53.7

 

Settings and track attached.

null

performance track 277.trk

[slughead]

I'd not assume that they have fixed the performance issues just because they've released a beta today. The release notes don't mention it. Only that they've fixed the shadow bug as some crashes. No doubt they're still analysing the problem. Give them some breathing space please.

[Mik32]

22 часа назад, NineLine сказал:

We saw similar results in Testing

Well, if you saw similar results in testing would it be better to postopne the update to 2.8 and solve the issue with FPS first, even this is Open Beta? I hope ED will be more careful with this kind of steps in the future.

Edited November 2, 2022 by Mik32

[5ephir0th]

28 minutes ago, WipeUout said:

Sadly I have to report a further drop in VR performance with 2.8.0.32235.1.  In my test track, I now have a 9.4% drop in FPS, it was previously 7.5% with 2.8.0.32066.  The drop is caused by increased GPU frame time almost exclusively.

Version                 Average FPS

2.7.18.30765              59.3

2.8.0.32066              54.8

2.8.0.32235.1            53.7

 

Settings and track attached.

null

performance track 277.trk 1.49 MB · 0 downloads

Put terrain objects textures to off and you will see a good amount of the performance back to 2.7 levels, flats shadows are acting like default ones and frametimes between both was already insane on 2.7

[WipeUout]

10 minutes ago, 5ephir0th said:

Put terrain objects textures to off and you will see a good amount of the performance back to 2.7 levels

There are many options to gain FPS, depending on your tolerance to lack of realism or shimmers or...  The point here is to have a baseline to compare between version and these are the settings I use to make sure I do not reach near my HMD's refresh rate of 72hz.  This way I can see the accurate gain/loss between versions or settings changes.  My personal preference to gain FPS is to reduce MSAA.

Edited November 2, 2022 by WipeUout
New info and findings

[YoYo]

55 minutes ago, slughead said:

I'd not assume that they have fixed the performance issues just because they've released a beta today. The release notes don't mention it. Only that they've fixed the shadow bug as some crashes. No doubt they're still analysing the problem. Give them some breathing space please.

No any words in changelog about fix for this downgrade. We must to wait and I hope they will fix it soon too. Personally I dont see any graphical changes, just poor FPS .

[5ephir0th]

1 hour ago, WipeUout said:

There are many options to gain FPS, depending on your tolerance to lack of realism or shimmers or...  The point here is to have a baseline to compare between version and these are the settings I use to make sure I do not reach near my HMD's refresh rate of 72hz.  This way I can see the accurate gain/loss between versions or settings changes.  My personal preference to gain FPS is to reduce MSAA.

 

I’m just telling you where is your biggest performance lose and pointing you into a temporal solution while ED fix it as this topic is under the bug section, not benchmark one

[some1]

The performance with terrain object shadows set to OFF is where it used to be in 2.7. The game looks worse, but at least it's playable. I hope it won't take long for ED to also fix flat shadows, it isn't the first time they were broken.

[Sr.]

44 minutes ago, YoYo said:

No any words in changelog about fix for this downgrade. We must to wait and I hope they will fix it soon too. Personally I dont see any graphical changes, just poor FPS .

While I was home for lunch, I clicked the update. It downloaded a patch I assume.

 

I hoped in FA-18/Caucuses ready on the ramp mission real quick to check and, the over-lap/superimpose aircraft shadow bug had been fixed.

So I re-enabled shadows low/default and performance was 'better', just still not 2.7 GPU frametimes... but better than it was last few days with same shadow settings. 

[exil]

48 minutes ago, some1 said:

The performance with terrain object shadows set to OFF is where it used to be in 2.7. The game looks worse, but at least it's playable. I hope it won't take long for ED to also fix flat shadows, it isn't the first time they were broken.

Mhh... Could it be that the worst part of the fps loss is affected by terrain shadows flat and not default? 

I was benchmarking with default shadows and saw 'only' a loss of 10%.

Maybe that's the reason why people like me only had 10% loss and others lost 15fps total. 

Worth a try. Maybe it helps to pin point down what going wrong. 

Which would perfectly makes sense in regards to this:

 

 

 

Edited November 2, 2022 by exil