Pretty much no single player missions anywhere for this map?

[Hiob]

28 minutes ago, Rudel_chw said:

 

Actually, I have never seen a single DCS map that includes ANY pre-made missions at all ... at most they have the definitions that allow the "Create Fast Mission" to work with the Map. The Missions have always been included WITH THE MODULES, at least that's the way DCS has been so far.

This! 

[imacken]

39 minutes ago, Hiob said:

This! 

We're being pedantic here. Of course the missions are listed with the modules. Be difficult to have a mssion with nothing to fly it in!  

The point still stands.

[Hiob]

27 minutes ago, imacken said:

We're being pedantic here. Of course the missions are listed with the modules. Be difficult to have a mssion with nothing to fly it in!  

The point still stands.

No, they are shipped with the modules, not the maps.

And by the way. It’s called a sandbox for a reason. Sandboxes usually come with moulds, not prebuilt castles.

[imacken]

Sorry, what is your point here? The fact is that all terrains had missions for several modules from day one except this one. 

I suspect that the terrain devs supply the initial missions to the aircraft devs for inclusion. 
Regardless, whoever produces the missions for the various modules/terrains has largely bypassed this map which is a shame. 

[Ramsay]

6 minutes ago, imacken said:

Sorry, what is your point here?

TL;DR:
That standalone Missions for aircraft are made/included by the aircraft dev's - not the map makers.

Detail:
So the map installs includes for example -

• DCS World > Mods > Terrains > Caucasus > MissionGenerator
• DCS World > Mods > Terrains > Syria > MissionGenerator
• DCS World > Mods > Terrains > Falklands > MissionGenerator

While aircraft specific missions are created by each aircraft dev and installed with each aircraft module

• DCS World > Mods > Aircraft > A-10C_2 > Missions > QuickStart ->  A-10II_Caucasus.miz, A-10II_Nevada, A-10CII_Sinai, etc. etc.
• DCS World > Mods > Aircraft > AH-64D > Missions > QuickStart ->  AH-64D_Caucasus.miz, AH-64D_Nevada, AH-64D_Syria, etc. etc.
• DCS World > Mods > Aircraft > F-15E > Missions > QuickStart ->  F-15E_Caucasus.miz, F-15E_Nevada, F-15E_Sinai, F-15E_SouthAtlantic, etc. etc.

A small map making team isn't forced or expected to make/test/support missions for each of DCS's +38 aircraft/helicopter - it's simply out of scope and unreasonable to do so.

While more South Atlantic missions would be nice - there is nothing "forcing" any "aircraft" dev to add missions for every map, that is where user made missions and a willingness to learn/use the mission editor come in.

[imacken]

Honestly guys, we've lost the plot here.  It doesn't matter who makes the missions, there should be a significant number after a year supplied with the base DCS install like every other terrain and module. Simple as that.

I'm off this thread now as we are way OT.

I'll look again at this map in a few months to see if things have improved.

[Dr Zaius]

I didn't realise quick missions come with modules only, I wonder then if the individule module makers should add quick missions to any new maps that are released as that would fairly share the burden somewhat, if that's too much to ask then at the very least new maps should come with a selection of quick missions for the 2 free modules (SU25T / Mustang) we have plus any other modules they themselves have created, after all they know these maps better than anyone and can highlight the 'best bits' they want to show off.

Edited November 27, 2023 by Dr Zaius
small correction

[MAXsenna]

Like others have written. The modules come with the missions, not the maps. Unfortunately, it seems as we get more and more map, there are actually "less" missions. It might be that module developers prioritise the free maps, though Heatblur does an outstanding job in this regard, and I wish Razbam with their own map could have provided some more missions. I agree that ED could have made some missions for the free modules, especially to help sales of the maps that are included in the trials. They should definitely provide some Combined Arms ones too.
I was kind of sure the MB-339 would have some since even the free version had some "Falkland" missions in the Caucasus as a stand in.
I can't help but think that many modules could sell better if they all had some simple default missions. Many do have "cold and dark", "free flight" etc. I do believe these could be expanded into longer navigation/reconnaissance missions. We've all heard the common voice over with "you can follow the flight plan, enemies are stood down". Like for the F-5E in Sinaï, but what are the way points actually? And it would be fun if they were in various weather at different times of the day. We have received better eye candy for this the past few years, haven't we?
Cheers!

Sent from my SM-A536B using Tapatalk

[71st_AH Rob]

18 hours ago, imacken said:

Completely agree.  As I menioned before, this is the only terrain that has this issue. All others had loads of mission from day one.  Similar situation with F-15.

I am also suprised that ED allow this to happen.  I'm also surprised that given Baltic Dragon's relationship with RAZBAM, that he has not produced a few mssions for the terrain and module to include in the base DCS.

Missions come with the aircraft not the map though.  

 

So it's incumbent upon the aircraft module makers to create hot and cold start missions etc for their aircraft and they get to choose the maps, not the map module makers or us.

So to get missions for this map you need to post your complaints in the aircraft module forum and hope the aircraft module makers listen and add missions for the South Atlantic Map.

Edited November 27, 2023 by 71st_AH Rob

[Dr Zaius]

8 minutes ago, 71st_AH Rob said:

So to get missions for this map you need to post your complaints in the aircraft module forum and hope the aircraft module makers listen and add missions for the South Atlantic Map.

Although accurate this, to me at least feels fundamentally wrong - there has to be a better way of doing things.

[Minsky]

1 hour ago, Dr Zaius said:

Although accurate this, to me at least feels fundamentally wrong - there has to be a better way of doing things.

Asking map makers to create and support missions for every current and future aircraft would also be fundamentally wrong.

The ever coming Dynamic Campaign should help with the lack of content, at least to some extent.

Allowing slots not only for a particular airframe, but for anything that fits specific roles ("cold war", "bomber", "WWII", "interceptor" etc.) would also be helpful. So the map makers could add a simple bombing run mission to their map, and that mission would then automatically appear for any current and future module capable of the task.

Both features have nothing to do with Razbam or any other map maker though. The ball is on ED's side.

[rkk01]

So, if Missions follow the Module… and Missions don’t follow the Map…

…. Then the lack of missions really is a result of there not being a DCS: Sea Harrier

South Atlantic is a beautiful map. Stunning scenery and refreshingly different to any other DCS Terrain.
Razbam should take great credit for jumping in to produce such a unique and stunning area for us to fly in.

South Atlantic is a beautiful, but currently pointless map

South Atlantic needs the Falklands Conflict assets to make it work

 

[silverdevil]

anyone who has created missions on their own knows how long it takes to create, test, edit, test, etc. the devs are likely busy with other pressing issues. this is why they have a mission editor so users can create their own. our squadron has a member that does many missions for training. best thing to do for the community is to find a way to help and make their own and post them for others to enjoy.  IMHO

[Rudel_chw]

15 minutes ago, rkk01 said:

South Atlantic is a beautiful, but currently pointless map

South Atlantic needs the Falklands Conflict assets to make it work

 

So, I assume you only ever fly historic missions ...

on my case I'm open to more options: Chile and Argentina have never been at war, but I can easily edit missions where argentinian MB339 clash with chilean C-101 over a fictional limited war; or I can just as easily edit a mission where Argentina did not purchase the Super Etendard and Exocets, but instead bought the Viggen with Rb15; etc, etc ... you are truly self-limiting yourself   

[Minsky]

28 minutes ago, Rudel_chw said:

you are truly self-limiting yourself   

Indeed.

People turn Marianas into Korea and Vietnam (even for payware campaigns!), and bomb "Iraq" using the PG map since the dawn of time   I don't see why South Atlantic cannot act as some generic Scandinavian country, warming the seat for Kola.

The Strait of Magellan also opens up a few interesting capabilities. I once made a mission where an US carrier group was trapped in there mid-crossing.

[rkk01]

1 hour ago, Rudel_chw said:

 

So, I assume you only ever fly historic missions ...

on my case I'm open to more options: Chile and Argentina have never been at war, but I can easily edit missions where argentinian MB339 clash with chilean C-101 over a fictional limited war; or I can just as easily edit a mission where Argentina did not purchase the Super Etendard and Exocets, but instead bought the Viggen with Rb15; etc, etc ... you are truly self-limiting yourself   

Not at all…

… as I posted on p1 of this thread, my favourite (home made) SP missions are using the Mosquito on shipping raids in the Patagonian fjords…

BUT, the whole point of this map - for me, and presumably for the developers was the focus around the Falklands conflict.  
 

IIRC the chap who put in so much personal effort into the map was ex-Royal Navy (or had a close connection), and Razbam were showcasing a whole fleet’s worth of 1982 naval assets, so they obviously had an expectation of fixing the map around that conflict.

My position would be for positive encouragement towards Razbam @Raz_Specter to pick up the Sea Harrier and see what radar data can be pieced together - the same must apply for pretty much all of the other DCS aircraft, and as I have said on other posts, HB / TG seem to be pulling together a simulation of the generations younger Captor radar in the Typhoon.

I seem to recall from previous posts, or from interview chat, that Raz had contact with a highly respected ex-FAA SME (Tim Gedge, ex 809 NAS CO ???)

[Art-J]

20 hours ago, imacken said:

Honestly guys, we've lost the plot here.  It doesn't matter who makes the missions, there should be a significant number after a year supplied with the base DCS install like every other terrain and module. Simple as that.

I'm off this thread now as we are way OT.

I'll look again at this map in a few months to see if things have improved.

Well, It kind of does matter who makes the missions because that's exactly who you should ask to do the job... not the map guys, as has been pointed above. Feel free to come back to this thread after a few months, but I can already predict things certainly won't have improved if you post here, and here only. So, it's you who are half-OT here. You don't go to dentist to ask for groceries do you?

"Half-OT", because, granted, I can see how RAZBAM map guys could read this thread and poke their airplane guys to include a couple of Harrier missions, after all it's all within one company.

For other semi-plausible aircraft missions for this region, however, you should make some noise in Aerges and IFE wishlist sections of the forum.

Edited November 27, 2023 by Art-J