Any chance for a russian jet?

[legitscoper]

Are there any chances of us getting an Su-25 modern variant like KM, TM, SM, SU-24M or a Tu-22M?

I guess the whole conflict makes things harder, since it's well since 2014, and since that we didn't really got any modern russian jet, and heli since that.

But we are getting modules like typhoon, f15e, which also are in active conflicts.

[Furiz]

Yea ED said they can't make anything Russian atm, cause some of their employees are living in Russia and would be in danger.

 

2 hours ago, legitscoper said:

But we are getting modules like typhoon, f15e, which also are in active conflicts.

Yes but we are getting older variants, not the most modern ones.

[legitscoper]

4 hours ago, Furiz said:

Yea ED said they can't make anything Russian atm, cause some of their employees are living in Russia and would be in danger.

 

Yes but we are getting older variants, not the most modern ones.

Yes, but still we are getting wayyyy more modern plane than well any russian one, even modernised variant.

[rkk01]

Does there need to be a sticky on the legal (Russian Laws) reasons for no further red air developments??

[upyr1]

I want better mod support and a soviet era su-25.

We ain't gonna get a flyablr modern Russian fighter except as a community project 

[BalticDude]

I hope so. I'm sick of nothing but NATO stuff being announced.

[F-2]

It can be done but it has to be a third party

[Tank50us]

We are getting some Red planes in the future. A FF Mig29 and Mig23MLA are known to be in the pipe, as well as the Mig17.

[MiG21bisFishbedL]

1 hour ago, Tank50us said:

We are getting some Red planes in the future. A FF Mig29 and Mig23MLA are known to be in the pipe, as well as the Mig17.

The 29 is on indefinite hold.

[upyr1]

10 hours ago, MiG21bisFishbedL said:

The 29 is on indefinite hold.

I am not shocked. I think Eagle and the other developers need to focus on cold war era aircraft as there is more likely to be open source material 

[bies]

On 11/28/2022 at 2:31 PM, legitscoper said:

Are there any chances of us getting an Su-25 modern variant like KM, TM, SM, SU-24M or a Tu-22M?

I guess the whole conflict makes things harder, since it's well since 2014, and since that we didn't really got any modern russian jet, and heli since that.

But we are getting modules like typhoon, f15e, which also are in active conflicts.

It depends what do you mean by Russian?

The Soviet Union 1922-1991? Yes. Many Soviet aircrafts are in DCS already. MiG-15, MiG-19, MiG-21, Mi-8, Mi-24. And many more are coming being already developed MiG-17, MiG-23, Su-17.

Or The Russian Federation 1991-2022? No. Russian aircrafts won't be allowed due to extremely prohibitive Russian law and i guess during the war they became even more paranoid - ED even had to cancel early 1980s Soviet era MiG-29 9.12. Probably they will never be any Russian 2000s fighter in DCS. Surely not modeled to have anything in common with the real aircraft.

Edited December 9, 2022 by bies

[Silver_Dragon]

A Mig29A or a Su27S has feasible, but a Su24/Su34/Tu22 more moderno, not. The problem them lack of info and them clearance. Remember ED has building a incoming Ka50-3 module.

Enviado desde mi CPH2197 mediante Tapatalk

[WinterH]

Relatively more modern Russian aircraft, say, from 2000+, seem to be a no-go, especially from ED themselves. Blackshark 3 being an exception, but even that one seemed to let go of a few things originally planned to be included. Only hope for a modern/modernish red-bird may be from Deka if the announce a new module, it perhaps may or may not be a later Russian or Chinese bird.

Cold War is where it's at if we want/hope a better decorated garden to play blue vs red inside  In that regard, we have a MiG-23MLA coming later from Razbam, a new studio trying to be another licensed 3rd party, Red Star Simulations, is working on a MiG-17F, and it seems we'll get a Su-17M4 or Su-22M4 from either OctopusG or Magnitude 3 at some point in future. We already have our MiG-21Bis and Mi-24P to fit such a period too. With upcoming Mirage III, F-4E, existing Mirage F1, F-5E, Huey, Mi-8, it's getting nicer and nicer. We just need some nice AH-1F or AH-1W from 80s-at most 90s ish period to round it up nicely in addition to some more red bird from the period imo.

But anything red to match with 2000s+ Hornet, Viper, Strike Eagle, Typhoon, Apache Longbow etc doesn't seem likely to happen anytime soon. There is JF-17 of course, yes, but while a very nice module, and a fun aircraft, it isn't necessarily quite a proper red-bird.

[MiG21bisFishbedL]

On 12/6/2022 at 11:13 AM, upyr1 said:

I am not shocked. I think Eagle and the other developers need to focus on cold war era aircraft as there is more likely to be open source material 

The Fulcrum is a Cold War aircraft. We can't simply judge the availability of information based on the era in which an aircraft served. For many governments and defense groups, classification doesn't have an expiration date. Meaning, there are aspects of aircraft out of service right now and have been out of service for decades that could still be classified simply because that paperwork is lost in an ocean of folders and filing cabinets. ED received a similar answer about the MiG-23 years ago. RAZBAM, however, is not subject to Russian law. That's the important part. The people running these organizations have one job and catering to us nerds is not part of it, sadly.

Realistically, all that can be done is inquire.

Edited December 7, 2022 by MiG21bisFishbedL

[Seaeagle]

On 12/6/2022 at 6:13 PM, upyr1 said:

I am not shocked. I think Eagle and the other developers need to focus on cold war era aircraft as there is more likely to be open source material 

Eh what?  .

The MiG-29 version in question (9.12) is very much a "cold war era aircraft" and there is plenty of open source material to simulate it. As far as I can gather, there were other reasons for ED deciding to put it on hold. 

Besides, an aircraft being older does not necessarily mean that its easier to find documentation or get permission to make it - e.g I seem to remember Chizh saying that the Su-24(any version) was a complete no-go in that respect.....and thats a much older design that the MiG-29. 

Edit: Sniped by MiG21bisFishbedL

 

Edited December 7, 2022 by Seaeagle

[TOMCATZ]

Hm ... 

 

Just create the MiG29 G !

Nato Jet

Nato OPS

NATO IFF

 

Just saying...

 

Cheers

TOM

[Seaeagle]

Just now, TOMCATZ said:

Hm ... 

 

Just create the MiG29 G !

Nato Jet

Nato OPS

NATO IFF

 

Just saying...

 

Cheers

TOM

Its not a "nato jet" - its still a Russian product and if those "other reasons" I talked about above involve not wanting to risk being accused of breaking Russian secrecy laws, then that would still be a problem for a development team in the country.

[F-2]

Being old has its own difficulties. I’m having a hell of a time getting a hold of the Mig-25P manual in the DIA’s custody. And that’s from a 50 year old defection for an airplane that’s considered obsolete.

[Dragon1-1]

I think part of the problem is how the Russian government works - or rather, as it had become apparent recently, doesn't. Getting permissions might depend on whims of several random drones deep in the Russian bureaucracy, some of them might be on a power trip, want a ridiculously large bribe (a longstanding problem in Russia), or simply be too incompetent to process the paperwork in time for an arbitrary deadline. Everyone saw how the mobilization went, consider that it is the Russian government's normal mode of operation. For ordinary people, life goes on by working around the government, not with it, and ED is in a situation where the only way to get, say, a MiG-29 made is to deal with that mess. Ka-50 happened because they had an arrangement with Kamov, so they presumably had access to a specific person with connections enabling them to cut through the BS and enough enthusiasm for the idea to see the project through. 

Even WWII Russian aircraft are a PITA to get proper info on, presumably for the same reason - they're not exactly sensitive, but some drone somewhere might get a kick off denying entirely reasonable requests just because they can, or they can send you on a wild goose chase to a different department because they don't feel like dealing with you. I believe the problem here is due to endemic incompetence, not due to any actual sensitivity of the relevant information. This is likely also the reason for ED flipflopping on the issue, it's quite imaginable that every time they ask, they get a different answer.

[upyr1]

4 hours ago, MiG21bisFishbedL said:

The Fulcrum is a Cold War aircraft. We can't simply judge the availability of information based on the era in which an aircraft served. For many governments and defense groups, classification doesn't have an expiration date. Meaning, there are aspects of aircraft out of service right now and have been out of service for decades that could still be classified simply because that paperwork is lost in an ocean of folders and filing cabinets. ED received a similar answer about the MiG-23 years ago. RAZBAM, however, is not subject to Russian law. That's the important part. The people running these organizations have one job and catering to us nerds is not part of it, sadly.

Realistically, all that can be done is inquire.

 

 

4 hours ago, Seaeagle said:

Eh what?  .

The MiG-29 version in question (9.12) is very much a "cold war era aircraft" and there is plenty of open source material to simulate it. As far as I can gather, there were other reasons for ED deciding to put it on hold. 

Besides, an aircraft being older does not necessarily mean that its easier to find documentation or get permission to make it - e.g I seem to remember Chizh saying that the Su-24(any version) was a complete no-go in that respect.....and thats a much older design that the MiG-29. 

Edit: Sniped by MiG21bisFishbedL

 

 

True the MiG-29 is technically cold war as they started entering service at the end of the cold war, however I'm thinking more 1950s-1970s 

[F-2]

Mig-29 is Cold War enough it could have seen action if able archer went hot.

 

 

[MiG21bisFishbedL]

On 12/7/2022 at 5:54 PM, upyr1 said:

 

True the MiG-29 is technically cold war as they started entering service at the end of the cold war, however I'm thinking more 1950s-1970s 

And, once more, there could be aspects about even those fighters that are classified to this day. The USSR was famously paranoid and this kind of stuff can get lost in oceans of paperwork. They don't have an expiration date, unfortunately. Sucks, but that's how it is. At least, for ED's side of the equation.

They've made it clear that 3rd parties might be much more able.
 

On 12/7/2022 at 1:48 PM, TOMCATZ said:

Hm ... 

 

Just create the MiG29 G !

Nato Jet

Nato OPS

NATO IFF

 

Just saying...

 

Cheers

TOM

If only it were that simple.

Edited December 9, 2022 by MiG21bisFishbedL

[upyr1]

14 hours ago, MiG21bisFishbedL said:

And, once more, there could be aspects about even those fighters that are classified to this day. The USSR was famously paranoid and this kind of stuff can get lost in oceans of paperwork. They don't have an expiration date, unfortunately. Sucks, but that's how it is. At least, for ED's side of the equation.

They've made it clear that 3rd parties might be much more able.

You are more likely to get the documents with a retired aircraft. Right now we have a nice line up for the Red Cold war aircraft.

We have the MiG-15, 19, and 21 Bis. We're have the MiG-23 and possibly the 17 on the way. We have a Su-22 on the way. We also have the Mi-8 and 24. I'd love to have the Su-24, 25 and MiG-27 I don't care who does them. I'd love to see the Su-24 and 25, I don't expect we'll ever get them though I would expect if we did they would be early models. 

I expect the best way to solve the problem would be better mod support and to add the modern ref for as AI assets. I expect the best we'll get with the Su-35 is some sort of Frankenstein job with a bit here and there.

My next wishlish would be to see Eagle to add more to the Korean war era 

 

[jojyrocks]

Pretty sure at least they could give us revamped 3d AI models (Russian Su-30 AI) that is still in LOMAC graphics. Also, it wont be too hard to make cold war era Russian jets, at least the early variants. 

[MiG21bisFishbedL]

1 hour ago, upyr1 said:

You are more likely to get the documents with a retired aircraft. Right now we have a nice line up for the Red Cold war aircraft.

We have the MiG-15, 19, and 21 Bis. We're have the MiG-23 and possibly the 17 on the way. We have a Su-22 on the way. We also have the Mi-8 and 24. I'd love to have the Su-24, 25 and MiG-27 I don't care who does them. I'd love to see the Su-24 and 25, I don't expect we'll ever get them though I would expect if we did they would be early models. 

I expect the best way to solve the problem would be better mod support and to add the modern ref for as AI assets. I expect the best we'll get with the Su-35 is some sort of Frankenstein job with a bit here and there.

My next wishlish would be to see Eagle to add more to the Korean war era 

 

Yes, that much is obvious. But, in ED's case, governments are clumsy things at the best of times, so a good third party is needed here.

 

 

56 minutes ago, jojyrocks said:

Pretty sure at least they could give us revamped 3d AI models (Russian Su-30 AI) that is still in LOMAC graphics. Also, it wont be too hard to make cold war era Russian jets, at least the early variants. 

I would think so, too. The Tu-95 is absolutely tragic.