I suck at DCS

[Rickling]

I can no longer hide behind the graces of newbie status, since I have been playing DCS for 3 (maybe 4) years. I've been playing flight sims since my family got their first desktop 486 PC in the early nineties; think I was about 13. Flight Sims have come such a long way, improving upon every single aspect of the genre. They've also gained a wider player base. But for some reason 2 things regarding my relationship to them have stayed the same:

1) No matter how complex and advanced and realistic they get, I still found myself obsessing over making it MORE complex, advanced and realistic for the sake of immersion. I used to fantasize about what sims would be like in the future when I was an adult. 

2)For some reason, despite everything I wanted and how awesome it is that these sims met my expectations and even surpassed them, I still suck. Maybe I did better when I was a teen because i had better reflexes but also the sims back them werent nearly as complex. I loved MSFS, that strike eagle game, (the one that's like an pilot mercenary version of wing commander) Falcon 3.0 was my favorite but it was hard one even then.I spent more time with that, I got that box with the add-ons and all this other stuff that sadly does not come with any games these days. and I even printed out binders full of technical data and schematics for every single piece of hardware and military vehicle I could find in the game. I was much better at Fleet Defender! cannot get good at them, especially my favorite, DCS. Its incredible frustrating and what's more, it doesn't seem like anyone really struggles in the same way. Ive watched so called noobs fly their first missioned and to my amazement most if not all of them catch on pretty fast, making it look easy.

What am I doing wrong? Here's a typical scenario. I fired up a mission on Liberation, jumped into a harrier strike group, and couldnt even get in the air. First, I missed something written very tiny on the chklist and the engine crapped out and rather than waste even more time trying to figure out what happened I stated over. Waited 14 mins for my flight's actual start time again, this time I said F it, auto start! Once I was all set I decided to make tgt pts for my JDAMs, I did that right even if it took about 30 minutes to figure it out AGAIN, I was pleased because I think i executed it perfectly albeit slowly. I decided to do a STO and rotated my nozzles/H20 chk etc, then as i began to throttle forward the jet just loses power! Why? There's just too many variables to go over so I just restart again, screw the tgt pts let's just take off i think I had already spent 2 HOURS prepping this and I just wanted to get going! I got about 20 fit in the air and then I went down in the water. 

This is a reoccurring thing. I have had countless sessions like that one. Every day over and over again. I must be a masochist. I do learn a little each time but isn't there some ways of making it easier? I wish I had a friend who liked flight sims, but all my friends are boring artist types and were raised by pseudo bohemian boomers to see all "video games" as mindless entertainment and "mainstream trash consumer culture."

I think its these antidepressants im on. They have compromised my short-term memory i think, I cannot memorize anything unless its been repeated a million times. I think what I want to raise some cash so I can get a better controller set up. I need to rely more on muscle memory in line with a good HOTAS setup. The one I got now is so-so, its CH products 568 stick and the pro throttle. I don't really like how they feel.

[Schmafuzius]

Well, I do not fly the Harrier but a generic problem that I encountered was, that some buttons where set on multiple input devices... and sometimes axes too... 

Check you key bindings that nothing is used on multiple input devices (unless its intentionally multi-used)

I crashed lots of planes because of something like that - and spontaneously loosing power sounds like it too

Edited January 17, 2023 by Schmafuzius

[Lace]

You need a structured approach.  The reason you were better with the older sims, was simply that they did not have the depth of realism found in DCS.  You could just jump in and out and figure it out. All of the modern modules are complex aircraft, you can't expect to just learn them on the fly (pun intended).  Being combat effective and safe in these aircraft is a full-time job IRL, they don't just give the pilot a 'Chuck's Guide', toss them the keys and expect them to get on with it.  Most modules need not only time, but targeted and meaningful training with specified learning outcomes if you want to progress.

I think what you need to do is master the basics first.  I've posted this before, but start small.  Learn to start it, fly, navigate, and land.  Learn the gun, then unguided rockets.  Learn dumb bombs. Learn the TGP and guided rockets & PGM.  Learn mavericks and sidewinders.  Learn tactics and enemy capabilities.  Learn IFR, AAR and night ops.  Don't try to be combat proficient in one or two flights.  If the Harrier is too much of a challenge, then go for the F-5 or the excellent new MB-339.  The systems are much simpler, and they can be started with a minimum of fuss.  The manual bombing and gunnery will force you to be disciplined in flying your attack profiles accurately and 'by the numbers'.  Practice cold starts, until you can do it without the checklists.  Get used to configuring the aircraft on the ground to reduce your workload in the air.  Build some training missions to practice simple navigation routes, with altitude changes, fuel planning and strict ETAs/TOTs.  Small, incremental steps.  Slowly building competence and confidence.

How do you eat an elephant? - One bite at a time.

Don't worry about the hardware.  I do most of my DCS flying away from home with an Xbox controller, and it still works just fine.  A HOTAS will improve things but it is far from essential.  Also, don't worry about slowing reflexes as you get older.  If you are relying on your reflexes to save you, then you need to do better at planning.  The astronaut (and pilot) Frank Borman said "A superior pilot uses his superior judgment to avoid situations which require the use of his superior skill."  Training also helps.  Have contingency plans and practice them.

The memory thing is age related, fortunately, something like DCS (and other mentally challenging activities) can help slow cognitive decline.  As do green leafy veg.  Eat kale, cabbage, broccoli etc.  Get fresh air and exercise regularly.

[Eugel]

I can say, you´re not alone. After about two months flying the Gazelle, I decided to give the Harrier another spin yesterday. On my way to the target, I totally forgot how Mavericks work in the Harrier. So I had to pause and go back to study again.

I agree with the "structured approach"
Don´t start with a Liberation mission. They cause unnecessary stress because everything is timed.

What I usually do is to create a simple training mission with just the aircraft in the hangar. Then I learn startup over and over until I get it. Then takeoff and landings, then I add some waypoints and practice navigation. After that, add some trucks to one of the waypoints and learn each weapon. And then do that over and over.

[BuzzU]

You could try my approach. For the record I turned 80 last month. So, my reflexes and memory I can promise you is worse than yours. You're in your 30's right. I'd love to be that age again.

I fly the Hornet and A-10C II. Two complex planes. The only way I can do it is to have check lists for everything. It keeps me from making mistakes. Give a try.

[Hiob]

Agreed on all of the above. Unless you really train on purpose and specific training goal in mind your advancements will be small and temporarily. I also strongly agree, that a combat enviroment is not a good place to practice.

I may add two things - I don't think that reflexes are really that important in flying (maybe in dogfighting - but not even then when you have a game plan).

The game you were talking about (mercenary version of wing commander) was probably Strike Commander and that featured F-16's if I'm not mistaken.

null

Edited January 17, 2023 by Hiob

[xurelointheocean]

hace 23 minutos, Hiob dijo:

Agreed on all of the above. Unless you really train on purpose and specific training goal in mind your advancements will be small and temporarily. I also strongly agree, that a combat enviroment is not a good place to practice.

I may add two things - I don't think that reflexes are really that important in flying (maybe in dogfighting - but not even then when you have a game plan).

The game you were talking about (mercenary version of wing commander) was probably Strike Commander and that featured F-16's if I'm not mistaken.

null

 

I couldn't remember that game. Thank you !! . I loved it back then. 

[Hiob]

40 minutes ago, xurelointheocean said:

I couldn't remember that game. Thank you !! . I loved it back then. 

Yeah, me too. The holy trinity. Wing Commander, Strike Commander and Privateer.

[scoobie]

2 hours ago, BuzzU said:

The only way I can do it is to have check lists for everything.

Checklists and what I call "flying notes" - it's my loose term for any "revelations" I currently consider revelations in a specific aircraft.

On top of what BuzzU wrote, if you are this type of a guy, you might try hand writing all your checklists and flying notes. Many people learn very well while writing things down by hand, maybe you are this type, too? I am. I guess it works so well because paper doesn't have "Delete" or "Backspace" keys (not to mention copy/paste combos which breed brainlessness - if that was a word), so before you write anything, you need to engage your brain, plan ahead, sort the knowledge you need to write down, sometimes dive into the manual again, slice the bits, concatenate, transform, integrate, reiterate, whatever It's just intelectually engaging and in the background you are learning - nearly for free, without even noticing it.

Now, while I actually bought a ream of A5 printer paper with the intention to prepare my checklists on a computer, I tend not to do it, I still use the right hand and a ballpen most of the time. Later on, of course, I find my notes/lists lacking or missing things, poorly laid out or outright incorrect, so I trash them and write new, better ones. Rinse, repeat - as many times as it takes, I don't care, I can still afford paper. Only when I really, I mean reeeaaalllyy think I know the aircraft well, I may re-type my hand-written checklist in Libre Office or whatever and print them. In practice, some 90% of my modules still have hand-written checklists/notes

Also, I bought a cork board and threw it on the wall close to my monitor. I pin short notes there, some small tricks that I don't normally use or have just discovered them and I suspect I can forget them easily. For instance, currently I have these:
"DMS right long - slew TGP to HMCS" (that's for A-10C)
"TMS right long - make last markpoint the SPI" (a/a)
"In NAV w. SLAV SI reference button toggles HDG tape" (the Viggen)

It's not "arcane knowledge", it's all there written in the manuals, but these are things I don't normally use in flight, so I always fall back to methods I do normally use.  It's limiting. So, what I do next with these memos is I "abuse" what they say in flight, on and again, so that they somehow get "carved" in my rusty cortex. Over time they become a routine, another tool in my toolbox and I no longer need a memo pinned to the board. Oh, and even if I DO forget it was, say, "DMS right long", it's not a big problem, because I will at least remember "there was a method to directly slew TGP to where I'm looking, which button was it?" and I will just look it up in the manual.

Edited January 17, 2023 by scoobie

[BuzzU]

I agree scoobie. I hand write all my checklists. That way I know i'll understand what's on the list and where to find it in the cockpit. I'd be lost without my lists. I have the memory of a worm at my age. The less to remember the better pilot I am.

[Rudel_chw]

1 hour ago, BuzzU said:

I hand write all my checklists.

 

I can't stand the look of my horrible handwriting, so I prefer MS Word to write my checklists and notes

 

 

Edited January 17, 2023 by Rudel_chw

[BuzzU]

How does that work? Aren't the lists on the computer?

I can't even read my handwriting. I print them. I can read that.

I have a big pad that I keep on my lap when flying. I can flip to the page I need as I fly. The pad is big enough to hold what I need on one page. Start up, each weapon etc.

[Rudel_chw]

1 hour ago, BuzzU said:

How does that work? Aren't the lists on the computer?

 

Yes, I store my notes on the /Saved Games/Kneeboards/ folder, like this:

 

 

1 hour ago, BuzzU said:

I can't even read my handwriting. I print them.

 

You realize that then it is not handwriting any longer? 

 

1 hour ago, BuzzU said:

I have a big pad that I keep on my lap when flying. I can flip to the page I need as I fly. The pad is big enough to hold what I need on one page. Start up, each weapon etc.

 

I have a 12.9" iPad where I can have documents near the PC, but honestly the DCS bult-in kneeboard is more practical for me.

Regards,

 

Eduardo

[BuzzU]

It's not my handwriting if I print instead of write? I don't mean use a printer.

[303_Kermit]

16 hours ago, Rickling said:

I can no longer hide behind the graces of newbie status, since I have been playing DCS for 3 (maybe 4) years. I've been playing flight sims since my family got their first desktop 486 PC in the early nineties; think I was about 13. Flight Sims have come such a long way, improving upon every single aspect of the genre. They've also gained a wider player base. But for some reason 2 things regarding my relationship to them have stayed the same:

1) No matter how complex and advanced and realistic they get, I still found myself obsessing over making it MORE complex, advanced and realistic for the sake of immersion. I used to fantasize about what sims would be like in the future when I was an adult. 

2)For some reason, despite everything I wanted and how awesome it is that these sims met my expectations and even surpassed them, I still suck. Maybe I did better when I was a teen because i had better reflexes but also the sims back them werent nearly as complex. I loved MSFS, that strike eagle game, (the one that's like an pilot mercenary version of wing commander) Falcon 3.0 was my favorite but it was hard one even then.I spent more time with that, I got that box with the add-ons and all this other stuff that sadly does not come with any games these days. and I even printed out binders full of technical data and schematics for every single piece of hardware and military vehicle I could find in the game. I was much better at Fleet Defender! cannot get good at them, especially my favorite, DCS. Its incredible frustrating and what's more, it doesn't seem like anyone really struggles in the same way. Ive watched so called noobs fly their first missioned and to my amazement most if not all of them catch on pretty fast, making it look easy.

What am I doing wrong? Here's a typical scenario. I fired up a mission on Liberation, jumped into a harrier strike group, and couldnt even get in the air. First, I missed something written very tiny on the chklist and the engine crapped out and rather than waste even more time trying to figure out what happened I stated over. Waited 14 mins for my flight's actual start time again, this time I said F it, auto start! Once I was all set I decided to make tgt pts for my JDAMs, I did that right even if it took about 30 minutes to figure it out AGAIN, I was pleased because I think i executed it perfectly albeit slowly. I decided to do a STO and rotated my nozzles/H20 chk etc, then as i began to throttle forward the jet just loses power! Why? There's just too many variables to go over so I just restart again, screw the tgt pts let's just take off i think I had already spent 2 HOURS prepping this and I just wanted to get going! I got about 20 fit in the air and then I went down in the water. 

This is a reoccurring thing. I have had countless sessions like that one. Every day over and over again. I must be a masochist. I do learn a little each time but isn't there some ways of making it easier? I wish I had a friend who liked flight sims, but all my friends are boring artist types and were raised by pseudo bohemian boomers to see all "video games" as mindless entertainment and "mainstream trash consumer culture."

I think its these antidepressants im on. They have compromised my short-term memory i think, I cannot memorize anything unless its been repeated a million times. I think what I want to raise some cash so I can get a better controller set up. I need to rely more on muscle memory in line with a good HOTAS setup. The one I got now is so-so, its CH products 568 stick and the pro throttle. I don't really like how they feel.

I'm 44 (in about 4 weeks) I still kick ass. If you still need some advice:
1. Get a group - DCS is a Team-game. Single-player is sort of practice playground.

2. Stick to one plane for some longer period - I usually fly one and the same plane 9-12 months, before I decide to try something else. I just like a sit in my plane to be "well creased"
3.Try to think, that your plane is virtual, but your flying is real. It changes everything. That's what DCS is for.
I for example went through almost 2 year Virtual Flying school on L-39C. A friend of mine (retired Air Force Instructor) organized it. I can't imagine doing what I do in some other sim.

Edited January 17, 2023 by 303_Kermit

[Rudel_chw]

2 hours ago, BuzzU said:

It's not my handwriting if I print instead of write? I don't mean use a printer.

 

Ok, sorry, english is not my native tongue .. I tought "print" was the product of a printer or typewriter 

[Ironhand]

My only advice is to slow down. You need to be able to roll over before you can sit up; sit up before you can stand; stand before you can walk; and walk before you can run. Trying to do it all RIGHT NOW can only end as an exercise in frustration. Once you’ve decided to slow down and catch your breath, follow all the excellent advice given above.

Edited January 17, 2023 by Ironhand

[NIGHTHAWK1]

Here is my advice.  Like others have said "stick to one airframe".  I have over 30 years of flight sim experience,(just turned 71), with 1000s of hours in the cockpit or flight deck depending on type of aircraft.  I started before Falcon 4.0 came out, and spent 100s of hours in that sim.  I have flown almost all of them, currently spend most of my time in DCS, but have XP-12, MSFS and VtolVR installed..

Go through the training lessons for that AC.  Watch some of the many videos produced by members and developers.  Read the manuals and advice of the experienced.  Maybe even go read "Stick and Rudder". Be sure you understand all the dynamics of flight, Berneulli's Principle, lift, thrust, drag, gravity,stall, climb rates, etc, etc.

Good equipment does make a difference, both your computer and flight sticks.

Look at it this way, a military pilot spends 1000s of hours to become proficient, and most only ever get to fly in a few different airframes.

[Thinder]

4 hours ago, NIGHTHAWK1 said:

Look at it this way, a military pilot spends 1000s of hours to become proficient, and most only ever get to fly in a few different airframes.

Not to mention that binding and setting up control axis curves can be very difficult at times, there can be a huge difference between aircrafts, best example from my side, Mirage 2000C and F1, I had the 2000C in hand after a couple of hours (I had a previous experience of real flight and theorical training coming with it and it helps a lot), but the F1 is another story all together.

I know that the Armee de l'air is happy with RAZBAM work and collaboration on the 2000C module, but I wouldn't sware they would formally approve of the F1, I might be wrong but it came to the point where I opened a topic on the subject because I am asking myself questions about its flight characteristics... Mirage F1 flight envelop and characteristics.

So yes, some people might have issues with DCS, not only it is very complex, but also flying some aircraft can be very challenging and it's not due to age and reflexes, it's just the nature of the simulation and modules themselves, no Armee de l'Air pilot ever had to set up his control curves...

Edited January 18, 2023 by Thinder

[Baltic Pirate]

On 1/17/2023 at 5:40 AM, Rickling said:

I can no longer hide behind the graces of newbie status, since I have been playing DCS for 3 (maybe 4) years. I've been playing flight sims since my family got their first desktop 486 PC in the early nineties; think I was about 13. Flight Sims have come such a long way, improving upon every single aspect of the genre. They've also gained a wider player base. But for some reason 2 things regarding my relationship to them have stayed the same:

1) No matter how complex and advanced and realistic they get, I still found myself obsessing over making it MORE complex, advanced and realistic for the sake of immersion. I used to fantasize about what sims would be like in the future when I was an adult. 

2)For some reason, despite everything I wanted and how awesome it is that these sims met my expectations and even surpassed them, I still suck. Maybe I did better when I was a teen because i had better reflexes but also the sims back them werent nearly as complex. I loved MSFS, that strike eagle game, (the one that's like an pilot mercenary version of wing commander) Falcon 3.0 was my favorite but it was hard one even then.I spent more time with that, I got that box with the add-ons and all this other stuff that sadly does not come with any games these days. and I even printed out binders full of technical data and schematics for every single piece of hardware and military vehicle I could find in the game. I was much better at Fleet Defender! cannot get good at them, especially my favorite, DCS. Its incredible frustrating and what's more, it doesn't seem like anyone really struggles in the same way. Ive watched so called noobs fly their first missioned and to my amazement most if not all of them catch on pretty fast, making it look easy.

What am I doing wrong? Here's a typical scenario. I fired up a mission on Liberation, jumped into a harrier strike group, and couldnt even get in the air. First, I missed something written very tiny on the chklist and the engine crapped out and rather than waste even more time trying to figure out what happened I stated over. Waited 14 mins for my flight's actual start time again, this time I said F it, auto start! Once I was all set I decided to make tgt pts for my JDAMs, I did that right even if it took about 30 minutes to figure it out AGAIN, I was pleased because I think i executed it perfectly albeit slowly. I decided to do a STO and rotated my nozzles/H20 chk etc, then as i began to throttle forward the jet just loses power! Why? There's just too many variables to go over so I just restart again, screw the tgt pts let's just take off i think I had already spent 2 HOURS prepping this and I just wanted to get going! I got about 20 fit in the air and then I went down in the water. 

This is a reoccurring thing. I have had countless sessions like that one. Every day over and over again. I must be a masochist. I do learn a little each time but isn't there some ways of making it easier? I wish I had a friend who liked flight sims, but all my friends are boring artist types and were raised by pseudo bohemian boomers to see all "video games" as mindless entertainment and "mainstream trash consumer culture."

I think its these antidepressants im on. They have compromised my short-term memory i think, I cannot memorize anything unless its been repeated a million times. I think what I want to raise some cash so I can get a better controller set up. I need to rely more on muscle memory in line with a good HOTAS setup. The one I got now is so-so, its CH products 568 stick and the pro throttle. I don't really like how they feel.

Look. I am a real world pilot. Military, civilian, jets and helicopters.  With DCS I have days and weeks like that. Over 17000 hours and counting, I figured that DCS should just be a breeze to handle, but it is not. Like any new aircraft type or a system you need time to learn its intricacies, especially as you treat it like a real world mission. Complexity can be astounding.

Think about it this way. Real world combat pilot flying an AV8 likely has 4 years in academy studying general military stuff, or NROTC, OCS etc. These follow up Naval Flight School. NFS is split in distinct modules. Basically Aviation Pre-flight indoctrination, primary flight training, intermediate flight training and advanced flight training. After primary, pilots are split to the available platforms. This is followed by more training in assigned squadron. Air Forces around the world are not much different.  You are doing yourself what people study for years under supervision. The learning never ends, checks and training, requalification for various weapons, procedures, simulator for flight, instrument, missions etc. 

DCS is hugely rewarding but it is not easy and can be as frustrating as it is rewarding. There a multitude of reasons for this, many software or simulation mechanics related.

Preparation is half the job or more. Repetition is mother of all learning. But here is the thing. Fly with a friend online. If not an instructor, someone else for input. But more than anything. I doubt you suck. It is just an immense amount of info to cram and handle. Keep at it and don't give up. Let me know if you need a hand. 

Edited January 18, 2023 by Baltic Pirate
Added info, typo's and grammar

[OLD CROW]

Go to minute 2:03 and listen the words of an expert: just 10 seconds of pure phylosophy. Also take your time in setting properly the keybinds and axis curves for every module and you are going to earn quality of life for sure. 

 

[Baldrick33]

I will give a slightly alternative view

DCS is whatever you want it to be. The DCS community is amazing - it has real world fighter pilots with many years of training and experience. It has the best sim pilots again with many years experience and aviation knowledge that could test some of the best real world fighter pilots! Not surprisingly they are very good at aviation combat in DCS.

The risk is they become the benchmark. You can be a bit of a star at your local squash, tennis or football club even though so far from the top tier it just isn't comparable. A golfer with a 15 handicap may seem pretty good to the people he plays with yet way off being a Pro. That all seems pretty accepted.

In the online world we are exposed to the best in the world - be it through multiplayer or even just comparing single player performances where difficulty levels need to cater for the very best.

Of course challenge is good and striving to be better is part of desire to play realistic sims. Yet it can be a route to frustration. With the golfer analogy the desire is always to get better but aiming for a scratch handicap is unlikely to be a target because it is for most obviously unachievable and that is accepted, the average player is way off the top, that is how it works.

IMHO there is nothing wrong with setting sights a bit lower in sims. Accept the fantasy. Many fit, bright young men & women fail to make the grade as real world fighter pilots, of those that do there is a small percentage who are the best. We can all be fighter pilots in DCS!  The average DCS simmer is exactly that, average and beating themselves up about not being a DCS ace is only going to end in frustration.

I would suggest setting achievable goals, don't rush into campaigns which maybe too difficult. Having a basic level of competence in a number of aircraft can be fun too, just find what you enjoy doing, there is no right way to play IMHO.

Enjoy the fantasy of being a fighter pilot and put the fact it would never have happened in the real world behind you!

[Los]

Agree with all said, its OK to get a new plane and jump into instant action or a mission for a minute to see how it looks but that's no way to learn anything on a  complex aircraft. Do the tutorials and study the guides to fill in info. Make a simple mission with a few ground targets and just sit in the AC alone learning. Tweak your control set up as you go along. Use checklists to help yourself out,(that's what we do for real and for a reason). For instance before you hit fly make sure you have gone into controls and refamiliarized yourself with the buttons on your HOTAS, to make sure you understand which ones you are going to use when, consider this part of prefly. Many times on a multiplayer flight I have heard someone say a few seconds before something: "damn I cant remember what button I have this mapped to". That's a simple preflight issue. 

Also you can be competent on flying an AC (say you can land an 18 on a carrier consistently, but each mission profile requires new skills (eg JDAM delivery) so that's a whole other course of study you undertake. Studying with others also helps. Our group we fly every Sat and Sunday at 0800. If we are preparing for an upcoming mission of campaign, we practice the mission profiles learn the new weapons etc, A few of us take on the responsibility of mastering it initially and then we all teach or coach each other until we are competent in this mission profile. Just because we were good at something a  year a go doesn't mean we can hop in and fly it today without refamiliarization. Constant training, practice, refamiliarization, rinse , repeat.

 

Edited January 18, 2023 by Los