One button press and two commands

[bofhlusr]

I have much to learn and read. No doubt lots of questions as well.

To start and summarize, if all I want to do is the following using just one program and keeping it as simple as possible without editing lua files, which one would you suggest: Joy2Key or Joystick Gremlin?

1. Create a snap view functionality on F4 (press a joystick button which will show the default view F4, and at release of the joystick button, go back to prior view)
2. Press a joystick button which will extend the speed brakes (quickly if possible) and retracts it upon the release of the joystick button
3. Press a joystick button which will simulate the keystroke LWIN-Num5 but without snapping back. A second press returns to the prior view.

[Baldrick33]

For simplicity I would pick Joy2Key.

[bofhlusr]

1 hour ago, Baldrick33 said:

For simplicity I would pick Joy2Key.

Thank you.

[jaylw314]

3 hours ago, bofhlusr said:

I have much to learn and read. No doubt lots of questions as well.

To start and summarize, if all I want to do is the following using just one program and keeping it as simple as possible without editing lua files, which one would you suggest: Joy2Key or Joystick Gremlin?

1. Create a snap view functionality on F4 (press a joystick button which will show the default view F4, and at release of the joystick button, go back to prior view)
2. Press a joystick button which will extend the speed brakes (quickly if possible) and retracts it upon the release of the joystick button
3. Press a joystick button which will simulate the keystroke LWIN-Num5 but without snapping back. A second press returns to the prior view.

If that's all you want J2K makes more sense

 

[Gasman6]

On 1/26/2023 at 3:55 PM, bofhlusr said:

2. Press a joystick button which will extend the speed brakes (quickly if possible) and retracts it upon the release of the joystick button

Just out of curiosity, what is the advantage of having the speedbrake behave in this manner? Is it just your limited number of available bindings? I would not want to have to hold a button down every time I land to keep the speed brakes extended, same if I am trying to slow down upon reaching speed-restricted airspace (such as in a terminal area). I realize, of course, this is just a game after all, and therefore there are no "right" or "wrong" ways of doing things, I'm just wondering what your perceived advantage is in changing the fundamental control behavior.

 

Thanks in advance.

[bofhlusr]

1 hour ago, Gasman6 said:

Just out of curiosity, what is the advantage of having the speedbrake behave in this manner? Is it just your limited number of available bindings? I would not want to have to hold a button down every time I land to keep the speed brakes extended, same if I am trying to slow down upon reaching speed-restricted airspace (such as in a terminal area). I realize, of course, this is just a game after all, and therefore there are no "right" or "wrong" ways of doing things, I'm just wondering what your perceived advantage is in changing the fundamental control behavior.

 

Thanks in advance.

@Gasman6the perceived advantage to this speedbrake behavior is in a steep dive (think German "Stuka" bomber in WWII) when you want to go as slow as possible on the dive and as far away as possible from the target after the dive.

Does anyone know if this can be done by the A-10 in real life?
 

[jonsky7]

6 hours ago, bofhlusr said:

@Gasman6the perceived advantage to this speedbrake behavior is in a steep dive (think German "Stuka" bomber in WWII) when you want to go as slow as possible on the dive and as far away as possible from the target after the dive.

Does anyone know if this can be done by the A-10 in real life?
 

Pretty sure it can yes.

But the A10 has a dedicated control for this. It is a 3 position switch, aft on the switch is momentary, so you have to hold it until the speedbrake is in the desired position. Fwd is latched and stows the speedbrake. The centre position is just off, no command sent.

There is also logic in the flight control computer that limits the amount of available speedbrake depending on your speed. So you don't brake the control surface or the wing.

If you hold Aft, the speedbrake deploys further and further as your speed decreases. When you're finished with your dive you just click it into the forward postion and it stows fully.

Edited February 1, 2023 by jonsky7

[Yurgon]

15 hours ago, bofhlusr said:

Does anyone know if this can be done by the A-10 in real life?

Sure that's possible. But it isn't done.

A-10s aren't exactly known for their high speed performance, and putting out the boards in a dive just means the enemy is given more time to shoot a target flying on a very predictable path.

Plus, landing configuration is gear down, flaps full, speed brakes 40% with no speed brake indicator other than watching over the shoulder.

[bofhlusr]

4 hours ago, Yurgon said:

 

.... the enemy is given more time to shoot a target flying on a very predictable path.

 

I'm guessing a tank probably can not point their guns at such a steep angle of attack.

Edited February 2, 2023 by bofhlusr

[bofhlusr]

13 hours ago, jonsky7 said:

Pretty sure it can yes.

But the A10 has a dedicated control for this. It is a 3 position switch, aft on the switch is momentary, so you have to hold it until the speedbrake is in the desired position. Fwd is latched and stows the speedbrake. The centre position is just off, no command sent.

There is also logic in the flight control computer that limits the amount of available speedbrake depending on your speed. So you don't brake the control surface or the wing.

If you hold Aft, the speedbrake deploys further and further as your speed decreases. When you're finished with your dive you just click it into the forward postion and it stows fully.

 

I looked but I couldn't find the switch on the left or right console. Is it modeled in the DCS version? What is the switch called?

[ricktoberfest]

14 minutes ago, bofhlusr said:

I looked but I couldn't find the switch on the left or right console. Is it modeled in the DCS version? What is the switch called?

It’s on the throttle - part of the hotas 

[Baldrick33]

[shagrat]

vor 5 Stunden schrieb bofhlusr:

I'm guessing a tank probably can not point their guns at such a steep angle of attack.

 

...but the AA-Machine Gun on top can (and will).

Same for the other enemy assets in the vicinity. 

[Yurgon]

9 hours ago, bofhlusr said:

I'm guessing a tank probably can not point their guns at such a steep angle of attack.

The one lonely tank that is bravely awaiting your attack may or may not be able to do so.

The tank battalion with integrated dedicated air defense assets, that's another matter.

[bofhlusr]

9 hours ago, Baldrick33 said:

Wow. Beautiful, and it's a keeper. 

Do you have a similar drawing for the joystick?

[Baldrick33]

59 minutes ago, bofhlusr said:

Do you have a similar drawing for the joystick?

I do, courtesy of Chuck's A10 Guide! If you haven't seen it I highly recommend it (along with all his other ones) https://chucksguides.com/

 

[jaylw314]

On 2/1/2023 at 4:47 PM, bofhlusr said:

I'm guessing a tank probably can not point their guns at such a steep angle of attack.

 

Neither can the A-10, sort of.  Putting out the speed brakes disables the PAC control stabilization while holding the trigger

[bofhlusr]

On 2/7/2023 at 1:28 PM, jaylw314 said:

Neither can the A-10, sort of.  Putting out the speed brakes disables the PAC control stabilization while holding the trigger

Good to know. Thank you.

[ASAP]

On 2/1/2023 at 7:02 AM, jonsky7 said:

There is also logic in the flight control computer that limits the amount of available speedbrake depending on your speed. So you don't brake the control surface or the wing.

If you hold Aft, the speedbrake deploys further and further as your speed decreases. When you're finished with your dive you just click it into the forward postion and it stows fully.

 

Pretty sure that's not true. The speed brake is limited to 80% in flight and 100% on the ground. The wing is plenty strong enough to withstand the stress. I've heard somewhere that the speed brake will be forced closed, or you cannot open them if you are going at extremely high speeds close to the barber pole, but that's because of aerodynamic force overcoming hydraulic pressure available. Can't find a source that states that anywhere, so feel free to believe it or not. But I'm fairly certain there's no in between limits based on airspeed , its purely "is there weight on wheels or not" with how much the jet will try to open them.

On 2/1/2023 at 3:56 PM, Yurgon said:

Sure that's possible. But it isn't done.

A-10s aren't exactly known for their high speed performance, and putting out the boards in a dive just means the enemy is given more time to shoot a target flying on a very predictable path.

Plus, landing configuration is gear down, flaps full, speed brakes 40% with no speed brake indicator other than watching over the shoulder.

I've heard there are times when they would open the boards. when doing high angle guns passes they can get going very fast, at least cracking the boards open isn't unheard of.

[Yurgon]

2 hours ago, ASAP said:

Pretty sure that's not true. The speed brake is limited to 80% in flight and 100% on the ground.

I never checked whether this is realistic, but in DCS it's what I've seen back as far as I can remember.

Maximum speedbrake deflection with the speedbrake switch held in the OPEN position, from left to right: 313 KIAS, 255 KIAS and 192 KIAS.

When dropping to a steep dive and picking up airspeed, you can also observe the brakes closing in steps at certain speeds, starting roughly at 260 KIAS.

3 hours ago, ASAP said:

I've heard there are times when they would open the boards. when doing high angle guns passes they can get going very fast, at least cracking the boards open isn't unheard of.

Good point, I'm sure it's done at certain times. I just wanted to make the point that the speedbrakes are rarely opened in attack runs and that we shouldn't make it a habit to do so, at least if we want to stick to real life procedures. Otherwise, the next thing we read on the forums is new pilots complaining that they always get shot down on gun runs, when they're floating at 160 knots on a straight path from 4 miles out so they have time to aim.

[ASAP]

50 minutes ago, Yurgon said:

Maximum speedbrake deflection with the speedbrake switch held in the OPEN position, from left to right: 313 KIAS, 255 KIAS and 192 KIA.

Interesting, never noticed that before. I read the 80% thing, and I never bothered to look at the brakes in a dive. I'll eat my humble pie on that one. I have no idea if the game is accurate or what I read is.

54 minutes ago, Yurgon said:

Good point, I'm sure it's done at certain times. I just wanted to make the point that the speedbrakes are rarely opened in attack runs and that we shouldn't make it a habit to do so

I agree. I would definitly think its a rare exception to the rule. My understanding is when pilots do any kind of diving deliveries its not just "point your nose at the ground and let 'er rip" They are actually trying to meet some specific parameters for dive angle and airspeed for lots of reason (safety is one of the big ones) and being on the right bomb triangle. Speed brakes would only be used if you are way above speed and trying avoid being too fast.

[Sabre]

In Joystick Gremlin, is there a way to bind 2 different vJoy buttons to the sequential pressing of the same physical button? For example, the first press generates vJoy1 Button5, the second press generates vJoy1 Button 7, and so on?

Thanks.

[Baldrick33]

15 minutes ago, Sabre said:

In Joystick Gremlin, is there a way to bind 2 different vJoy buttons to the sequential pressing of the same physical button? For example, the first press generates vJoy1 Button5, the second press generates vJoy1 Button 7, and so on?

Thanks.

I believe that can be achieved using the Chain container.

[Sabre]

38 minutes ago, Baldrick33 said:

I believe that can be achieved using the Chain container.

Thank you. Yes, I've figure that out, it can be done in Chain container, you Add Action 0 and Action 1 With Joystick Conditions tied with the Joystick button press. 

Now  is there time-based input in Joystick Gremlin besides Macros?

Thanks.

Edited June 24, 2023 by Sabre

[jaylw314]

1 hour ago, Sabre said:

Thank you. Yes, I've figure that out, it can be done in Chain container, you Add Action 0 and Action 1 With Joystick Conditions tied with the Joystick button press. 

Now  is there time-based input in Joystick Gremlin besides Macros?

Thanks.

 

A time-based input or output?  

For input, you can use Tempo or Double-tap containers (or Smart Toggle, kind of)

For output, you'd have to use Macros

Edited June 25, 2023 by jaylw314