DCS Newsletter Discussion 3rd March 2023 - Normandy 2.0 | Hoggit server

[Dragon1-1]

OK, so maybe not on grass. It has those dual wheel bogies to reduce ground pressure, but I guess it's not enough to fly from a completely unpaved field. I know Soviet block aircraft were almost all supposed to be capable of rough field operations, because the Soviet doctrine was big on that kind of thing (note the near universal presence of intake covers to protect the engines from FOD while on the ground, rough field capability is not just about the gear). The F-5E probably not, US didn't design its aircraft for this.

And of course, there's also the Harrier, which doesn't really care either way. As long as it doesn't sink into the ground, it can probably fly from it.

Edited March 4, 2023 by Dragon1-1

[draconus]

On 3/3/2023 at 6:55 PM, tigayot228 said:

But in old Normandia 1.0 no airport compatibile in jet fighter. Impossibile take off in grass airport.

Most were not prepared for jets so it's not realistic to expect that from the sim.

[Hotdognz]

19 hours ago, draconus said:

N2 and N'1944 will be separate maps SP but compatible online - working as single map MP.

If  N2 & N44 and going to work online as 1 map then surely they will work offline as 1 map, the mission editor wont be able to distinguish this and in that case there must be 3 maps

N2 Separate
N44 v2 Separate
N2 and N44 combine as per the statement in the news letter.

[Bog9y]

12 hours ago, Dragon1-1 said:

OK, so maybe not on grass. It has those dual wheel bogies to reduce ground pressure, but I guess it's not enough to fly from a completely unpaved field. I know Soviet block aircraft were almost all supposed to be capable of rough field operations, because the Soviet doctrine was big on that kind of thing (note the near universal presence of intake covers to protect the engines from FOD while on the ground, rough field capability is not just about the gear). The F-5E probably not, US didn't design its aircraft for this.

And of course, there's also the Harrier, which doesn't really care either way. As long as it doesn't sink into the ground, it can probably fly from it.

 

Check this video at 5:40.  The original F5A was built to take off and land from unprepared surfaces. 

 

https://youtu.be/PCg5dPU5jtY

[draconus]

3 hours ago, Hotdognz said:

N2 and N44 combine

No such thing.

[Dragon1-1]

Since the map origin is in the same place, and I guess the terrain mesh is the same in overlapping areas, then compatibility between the two maps should be simple. In theory, a mission made for the old Normandy should work exactly the same on the new Normandy. In theory. How it works out in practice is another matter.

[Gunfreak]

3 hours ago, Dragon1-1 said:

Since the map origin is in the same place, and I guess the terrain mesh is the same in overlapping areas, then compatibility between the two maps should be simple. In theory, a mission made for the old Normandy should work exactly the same on the new Normandy. In theory. How it works out in practice is another matter.

We don't know anything for sure.

 

The timeline goes like this:

 

Map is revealed, they say old missions and campgians will work.

Then it's said that this is a new map and you can't just move missions and campaigns to a new map. DCS doesn't work that way.

Then a few months back reflected hinted that we might be able to play his campaigns on the new map, to what extent that is we don't know. Mabye we can play old missions on the updated 1944 map, but not on the full scale larger Norman 2.0. We simply don't know.

Edited March 5, 2023 by Gunfreak

[Hotdognz]

On 3/5/2023 at 2:05 AM, draconus said:

N2 and N'1944 will be separate maps SP but compatible online - working as single map MP.

 

10 hours ago, draconus said:

No such thing.

So how did you work out that they will work as a single map in MP ??, both N2 and N 1944 would need to be combined as a single map, which was my original question based on the news letter and this statement from ED, this says to me that both maps must have been stitched together for this to work

Having the same 69 airfields on both maps will allow players to share the sky in online campaigns and online missions. Ugra Media has done everything possible to remove any borders between the two maps.

[Art-J]

^ From that announcement (and from Nineline's comment which followed in one of the threads later) I suspect that N1 map will probably just be expanded to the same area as N2 (with all the extra airbases, at least in rudimentary form ie. taxiways and runways), but the expanded part is going to be missing all detail features (topography, cities, landmarks, roads etc.) - it will be just generic textures all around, like currently on UK side of the Channel in N1. Maybe with main roads added, but not much more.

That way the mission compatibility is there but if someone wants full bells & whistles experience, he'll need to buy N2.

Edited March 6, 2023 by Art-J

[draconus]

8 hours ago, Hotdognz said:

So how did you work out that they will work as a single map in MP ??, both N2 and N 1944 would need to be combined as a single map, which was my original question based on the news letter and this statement from ED, this says to me that both maps must have been stitched together for this to work

The maps are definitely separate and the client chooses which one to run but since the maps share most places with same coordinates it is possible for the server to put every player and mission object on the either N'44 or N2 map so they can "share the sky online". They are combined only virtually or rather the players are combined into one map. That's what I get from it.

Edited March 6, 2023 by draconus

[aldox]

why didn't they mention MT

[ironhard]

11 hours ago, aldox said:

why didn't they mention MT

Possibly because it's not there. They never said it was. The hype started when they delayed the patch to March 1st, but not a word of confirmation has been given. It might even be there, but don't be surprised if it's not. Better to lower your expectations.

 

[Dragon1-1]

Well, what's your explanation for missing a patch, then? It must be something that can't simply be pushed back in case of issues in testing. So, it can't be anything related to a module, because no matter what blows up in those, you can just leave the module as it is now, and update it in the next patch. No, this is a major change to the core. One that can't be easily rolled back if it fails to work out. Out of announced features of this nature, MT is the closest one.

[ironhard]

2 hours ago, Dragon1-1 said:

No, this is a major change to the core. One that can't be easily rolled back if it fails to work out. Out of announced features of this nature, MT is the closest one.

How do you know? Unless you know something that the rest of us don't, an insider, it's still all in the realm of especulation, regardless of how likely it is that MT is in, or not.

[DD_Fenrir]

20 minutes ago, ironhard said:

How do you know? Unless you know something that the rest of us don't, an insider, it's still all in the realm of especulation, regardless of how likely it is that MT is in, or not.

This where most of the trouble starts in these forums; idle speculation can be amusing but too many seem to take that speculation and make it into an expectation; after a while this expectation conflates and in their mind becomes a promised feature - all in their own head.

Why can't peeps just enjoy a nice surprise anymore?

 

 

[Munin]

On 3/5/2023 at 12:40 AM, Dragon1-1 said:

OK, so maybe not on grass. It has those dual wheel bogies to reduce ground pressure, but I guess it's not enough to fly from a completely unpaved field.

The Viggen boogie landing gear did indeed reduce wheel pressure, but not enough to make it able to operate from soft grass fields; it was a heavy bird. All the road bases that I know of was prepaired for fighter use beforehand. And the boogie did help with straighten up the aircaft at crosswind landings.

[Dragon1-1]

4 hours ago, ironhard said:

How do you know?

This is called informed speculation. As development continues, the MT and non-MT codebases diverge, because those are two fundamentally different paradigms, even if ED is attempting to have it both ways. Most new features are developed on the new one by now (confirmed by ED). At some point, they have to switch OB to the new branch, and they can't roll it back, because all other core changes will depend on MT, too.

Now, modules in DCS are, well, modules. Those contain separate assets and code, often managed by 3rd parties, although of course ED can break them with their changes to core. However, changes to modules generally do not affect the core, and MT in particular should not affect module-side logic too badly, since it'll all still run on a single thread. Rendering, which is what is being split off is handled on the ED side. Hence, it can't be a change to anything classified as a module. In theory, they perhaps could have released a patch with no core features, just module updates, but I suspect changes were significant enough that module makers had to make adjustments, and backporting updated modules to the old core is unlikely to be feasible.

MT is just the most likely reason for such a long delay. Everything else is modularized, and modules are not interdependent. The only thing that can hold up the entire update is the core.

[Badger1-1]

I know its coming next Wednesday..why you ask? its my first day of rotation again and I get to watch you happy people fly the update for 17 days until Im back home....

 

 

[giullep]

Notting about this patch?

[Gunfreak]

25 minutes ago, Badger1-1 said:

I know its coming next Wednesday..why you ask? its my first day of rotation again and I get to watch you happy people fly the update for 17 days until Im back home....

 

 

Then i humbly ask you get your ass back to work now, so they can release the patch now. Take one for the team.

[Beirut]

11 minutes ago, Gunfreak said:

Then i humbly ask you get your ass back to work now, so they can release the patch now. Take one for the team.

 

 ..................

[Badger1-1]

30 minutes ago, Gunfreak said:

Then i humbly ask you get your ass back to work now, so they can release the patch now. Take one for the team.

Wilco!

 

[St4rgun]

Hurray, it's Friday tomorrow! Another possibility to have some interesting news.

[The_GhostRider]

Or not

[Hotdognz]

Looks like no patch today or its going to be late, hope the news letter has some info on why ED are running late with the last patch as I think that would be a thing to comunicate through to their dedicated and loyal clientele, were now 7 weeks an counting since the last patch.