no F-18 boring?

[Peedee]

Is it just me that find the F-18 a little bit "boring"? I mean, this is just compared to the A-10C and F-16. It´s a matter of taste, I know. And they are very different airplanes. But, I tried to like it, I even bought the Winwing Take off panel, the UFC/hud control thingies, the  3 mfd panels, all nicely setup on my desk..  Thrustmaster F-18 stick mounted on a Virpil base with 20cm extender... (wow - the precision I get with that is just insane btw!).

I have spend most time in the A-10C. But I wanted something faster, something for shooting down other planes too. So I got all the Winwing stuff and... nope.... I don´t mean to come out as a troll - this being the F-18 part of the forum and all. But... nah... argh... wanted to like it. Really did. 

I have jumped to the F-16 for now. Find it fun to fly, but my 1998 Falcon 4 patch 1.08 flying and fighting skills (which was the last time I really spend many hours in a F-16 sim) doesn´t really cut it   Much to learn.

Maybe I´ll come back to the F-18 later. Hate to sell all this nice stuff or just let it rest there on my desk. I probably didn´t spend enough time in it. "Patience, my young padawan" isn´t something that I live by. I´m 54 and hasn´t got time for that 

 

[BIGNEWY]

Hi, 

it is personal preference, I certainly do not think the F/A-18C is boring, it is a multirole platform that can carry out many tasks, with the added ability of landing on carriers. 

I think with many things in DCS you do have to make your own fun, if you are not having fun try something else, that is the beauty of DCS, its a sandbox for whatever you want to do.

thanks

[speed-of-heat]

It’s an odd duck… it’s easy to fly, and hard to fight across its range of missions it doesnthave the Vipers sheer power to out fight things, which means you have to think more... It lands on a carrier... So you have to do that and AAR is an operational thing... So there is that, there is a lot to learn and a lot of fun, but the viper can do "nearly all of that"... So why do I spend my time in the hornet, because it is a fun challenge.

[Extranajero]

Boring might be taken as a compliment by the aircraft designers, it means they've engineered all the quirks out of the jet.

I've had the F-18 for a very long time and never really gotten to grips with it. There's something about it which doesn't capture my imagination.
A real world ( retired ) F-18 pilot who flies DCS once asked me on social media why I didn't like it much and I think he understood my explanation of me finding it bland. The things that were a downside for me, sitting in a cockpit rig in front of a monitor were traits he appreciated in the real jet because they kept him alive.

[Peedee]

2 minutes ago, BIGNEWY said:

Hi, 

it is personal preference, I certainly do not think the F/A-18C is boring, it is a multirole platform that can carry out many tasks, with the added ability of landing on carriers. 

I think with many things in DCS you do have to make your own fun, if you are not having fun try something else, that is the beauty of DCS, its a sandbox for whatever you want to do.

thanks

You´re absolutely right. Could be that the reason I like the A-10c so much is that it is limited to the ground attack role. And that kept me focused on just that. Carrier landings... yes, I guess I have to come back to the F-18 later    

[BIGNEWY]

Just now, Peedee said:

You´re absolutely right. Could be that the reason I like the A-10c so much is that it is limited to the ground attack role. And that kept me focused on just that. Carrier landings... yes, I guess I have to come back to the F-18 later    

I like air superiority missions ( No A2A combat, I suck at it ) with a ground attack focus, I generally fly coop mission in multiplayer with friends which is how I like to play. 

[Peedee]

5 minutes ago, Extranajero said:

Boring might be taken as a compliment by the aircraft designers, it means they've engineered all the quirks out of the jet.

I've had the F-18 for a very long time and never really gotten to grips with it. There's something about it which doesn't capture my imagination.
A real world ( retired ) F-18 pilot who flies DCS once asked me on social media why I didn't like it much and I think he understood my explanation of me finding it bland. The things that were a downside for me, sitting in a cockpit rig in front of a monitor were traits he appreciated in the real jet because they kept him alive.

That is certainly an interesting take, both from you and the real world F-18 pilot. 

[Agent_Scarn]

I think it depends on what is "fun" for you. Some people find A2A fun and A2G boring, others (like me) the opposite. If you are an A2G person then there is no airplane more fun then the A-10C. If you want both then F-16 and F-18 is your airplane of choice. I personally love the F-16. The only thing I find interesting in the F-18 is the carrier operations.

Also eventually I believe the F-15E is going to be the Jack of all trades... eventually. Give it a year or so.

So, to sum up. Is F-18 boring? It is certainly not. It takes off and lands from carriers and can do everything very well. But it's not one of my favorites.

[cw4ogden]

If DCS was Dungeons and Dragons, the F-18 would be the druid.  It can do everything, but is the best at nothing.  I find it odd how finicky I am when it comes to liking a module or not liking a module.  That said, I agree with the original post, the F-18 to me just feels bland.  To me it's like choosing the camero, when you have access to Jay Leno's entire garage.  

That said, I recognize it is a fantastic DCS module.  Absolutely one of the best picks for anyone starting out who wants bang for buck.  

[WinterH]

5 minutes ago, Agent_Scarn said:

Also eventually I believe the F-15E is going to be the Jack of all trades... eventually. Give it a year or so.

Really depends on what you mean with jack of all trades, but if we go by the general meaning imo F-15E will never be the jack of all trades compared F-16, F/A-18, or indeed despite it being a lot lighter the JF-17.

Strike Eagle at heart will remain a bomber with good self escort capability. It is very focused and specialized at that. All the others above can do that too, but a lot less well than F-15E. However, in addition they can do SEAD, anti ship, and I'd argue have more options in interdiction of mobile vehicles etc. None of which are among the menu for SE. Well guess it can also do anti convoy work with CBU-97, 105, and JSOWs, and looks like it'll get Mavericks too, but AFAIK JSOWs and Mavericks are kinda gameplay stretching of payload options for that variant, and even then I'd argue the other 3 remain overall more flexible by far.

Anyway, as for the thread's actual subject...

1 hour ago, Peedee said:

I have jumped to the F-16 for now. Find it fun to fly

To each their own I guess. Personally I've always been Meh at best vs F-16, or indeed outright hostile towards it. I don't like its looks, I don't enjoy the way it flies, at all, but I'll agree it is a very capable and reasonable airframe indeed. But capability wise they are very similar with hornet, only difference is in the way sensors are operated by HOTAS, and many including myself find the way things implemented in F-16 to be janky. Guess it's the speed and acceleration in the Viper that you like then. But for me Viper is the very definition of boring interestingly

[wilbur81]

Try to fly one of Baltic's Raven One campaigns to the end and then come back and tell us that the Hornet is boring...

[MARLAN_]

11 minutes ago, cw4ogden said:

If DCS was Dungeons and Dragons, the F-18 would be the druid.  It can do everything, but is the best at nothing.  I find it odd how finicky I am when it comes to liking a module or not liking a module.  That said, I agree with the original post, the F-18 to me just feels bland.  To me it's like choosing the camero, when you have access to Jay Leno's entire garage.  

That said, I recognize it is a fantastic DCS module.  Absolutely one of the best picks for anyone starting out who wants bang for buck.  

It is the best at quite a lot actually.

[Exorcet]

The Hornet can do a lot, but that alone doesn't make for an interesting plane. I purchased the F-18 when it came out because who wouldn't? Interesting historical aircraft and one I had come to like in previous, but less detailed, sims.

I was surprised to find out it was a bit clunky in the cockpit. Later when the F-16 released I was also surprised to find how much it lacked in terms of speed and acceleration. I had always known on paper that the F-16 was faster, but it was never apparent how big the gap was until I flew them both back to back virtually. Since I focus on air to air, the F-16 just felt better.

However I don't regret buying the Hornet at all and it's nice to swap aircraft everyone once in a while. The carrier operations are fun, and so is having to come up with different ways to deal with situations without raw speed. The radar isn't Eagle like, but it is powerful, and when it comes to low speed noise pointing there is no equal.

[cw4ogden]

23 minutes ago, MARLAN_ said:

It is the best at quite a lot actually.

Arguably true.  I meant from my own stable of aircraft, I prefer the dedicated role aircraft versus the jack of all trades, i.e. f-18, f-16.  From a purely subjective standpoint, if I want to bomb I prefer the Av8b.  If I want Air to air I like the tomcat, even though the f-18 is in many ways better.  I'm only down on the f-18 in the very subjective way that is whether you like a module for it's more intangible qualities.  Sound and ergonomic design as well, in particular not liking McDonnel Douglas's set of audio and various instrument layout etc.  

That said, I recognize it's role historically and it's role as one of the DCS flagship modules.  Just trying to put a reason to why it's one of my lesser used planes.  The A-10 is the exact same phenomenon, but three times worse.  I've tried repeatedly to like the A-10 and I just don't.

[Hiob]

What keeps me from loving (and flying) the Hornet is its (in comparison) stale FM. That may not even be the fault of the simulation. Maybe it is just so in RL. But I prefer the more lively feeling of Tomcat, Helicopters (most) and even the Viper. Nothing wrong per se with the Hornet. It just doesn't give the same thrills.

With limited time and by now two dozend or so Aircraft in the hangar, some favorits starts to crystalize - and the Hornet is not one of them. 

[kotor633]

vor 22 Minuten schrieb Hiob:

What keeps me from loving (and flying) the Hornet is its (in comparison) stale FM. That may not even be the fault of the simulation. Maybe it is just so in RL. But I prefer the more lively feeling of Tomcat, Helicopters (most) and even the Viper. Nothing wrong per se with the Hornet. It just doesn't give the same thrills.

I find this statement appropriate. That's how I feel too. But I would like to add the Mirage F1 here. Otherwise, I personally wouldn't say the FA-18C is boring. But rather a challenge when it comes to system management and weapon operation. And I just think it's great what kinds of tasks you can do with it.

[darkman222]

I once ( 2015) stubled up that text on the internet. Seems like in hindsight it was our beloved C.W aka Mover who wrote it:

http://fightersweep.com/1494/hornet-vs-viper-part-one/

http://fightersweep.com/1539/hornet-vs-viper-part-two/

http://fightersweep.com/1904/hornet-vs-viper-part-three/

http://fightersweep.com/2378/hornet-vs-viper-part-four/

 

In DCS the F18 is less demanding, more forgiving. Even the over all size of the letters in the cockpit and the MFDs are bigger and better readable which is a statement how it was designed.

[Extranajero]

42 minutes ago, Hiob said:

What keeps me from loving (and flying) the Hornet is its (in comparison) stale FM. That may not even be the fault of the simulation. Maybe it is just so in RL.

That ex Hornet pilot I spoke to said the DCS FM is pretty accurate, within the limits of what's possible on a home PC. Apparently the multi million dollar training sims that the USN use still aren't 100%
I know what you mean about 'stale' though, it's maybe not the exact word I'd use, but it does seem to fly on rails most of the time.
 

[aphill]

I find that any aircraft one "flies" a lot and becomes well known become "boring". One of the great things about DCS is there are so many aircraft to learn, or aspects of the same aircraft to learn. For me its the learning part that keeps things from being boring.

[Hiob]

1 hour ago, darkman222 said:

I once ( 2015) stubled up that text on the internet. Seems like in hindsight it was our beloved C.W aka Mover who wrote it:

http://fightersweep.com/1494/hornet-vs-viper-part-one/

http://fightersweep.com/1539/hornet-vs-viper-part-two/

http://fightersweep.com/1904/hornet-vs-viper-part-three/

http://fightersweep.com/2378/hornet-vs-viper-part-four/

 

In DCS the F18 is less demanding, more forgiving. Even the over all size of the letters in the cockpit and the MFDs are bigger and better readable which is a statement how it was designed.

Very interesting read! TY

47 minutes ago, Extranajero said:

I know what you mean about 'stale' though, it's maybe not the exact word I'd use, but it does seem to fly on rails most of the time.
 

"On rails" nails it pretty much.

[Jeb]

I agree to a point about the F18, I wish it had a real ILS because I find myself all the time shooting approaches to mins in the SE just to have fun

[Beirut]

4 hours ago, Peedee said:

Is it just me that find the F-18 a little bit "boring"?

 

 

Any plane or map can be boring. Depends what you're doing with them. You have to fly in a way you enjoy. My attitude is: gimme a Wright Flyer and a map of Bismark's outhouse, I'll figure out how to get some fun out of it. 

 

I enjoy the Hornet a lot. I understand more of it than any other plane and I like being able to do different cool things in it. Again, though, it's up to you to fly in a way you enjoy. 

[Dragon1-1]

Well, it's certainly not a Tomcat, FBW does take some flying out of the jet.  The Hornet is a bit vanilla, but it's a good compromise for a multirole plane. That said, it's still a very nice ship to fly, and if you take a Fox 1/Fox 2 loadout, you can have some good old school fights. One thing I like about it is the sheer variety of possible loadouts, much more options than the Viper has.

[Braunn]

I quite like it and hard to see it as boring even though the Viper is my first love. 

Hornet is just a lower powered aoa beast with long legs. I find that fun as its the opposite of a Viper. Gotta reset the brain before flying it in many ways. Besides, it have a more complete weapons deployment compared to Vipers. 

And I'm not even close to have it "nailed" yet. 

 

Edited December 14, 2023 by Braunn

[SlipHavoc]

I'm always puzzled when people say the F-18 feels like it's "on rails" but don't level the same criticism at the F-16, which to me feels even more stable.  In my experience the F-18 is also significantly faster than the F-16 when carrying any kind of useful A/G load, and it can fly at higher altitudes.  The exception is when you light the afterburner, which in the F-16 is very powerful, but the F-18 has about twice as much time on afterburner just with internal fuel, and can carry more externally.

I personally much prefer the F-18 over the F-16, as I like being able to carry more A/G weapons, I have longer range, 3 MFDs, can fiy higher, have a better HMD, and it fits my dogfighting style very well (put the lift vector on the bandit and pull, which the F-18 is excellent at, while the F-16 requires more discipline in keeping your speed up).  But if it bores you there's nothing wrong with that, just find some other plane that you like more.  You aren't required to like the same planes that other people like, or for the same reasons.