MiG-29A FF: capabilities and how will it fit into the (meta)game?

[Raven (Elysian Angel)]

48 minutes ago, some1 said:

Probably no mixing with more than 2 missile types, as the armament panel only allows selecting "outer rails first" or "inner rails first" when firing A2A missiles.

Yet we see ED's MiG-29 armed with 2x R-60, 2x R-73, 2x R-27:

[Tarres]

From what I’ve read only two types of AA missiles can be used at a time as Some1 said.

[some1]

12 minutes ago, Raven (Elysian Angel) said:

Yet we see ED's MiG-29 armed with 2x R-60, 2x R-73, 2x R-27:

And on the previous videos we saw Ch-47 with the FLIR addon (now removed), or F-15E with Russian ELINT pod of all things.

Everything is subject to change.

[WinterH]

Yeah I wouldn't take a promotional image for a WIP thing as gospel.

I guess this would also mean "goodbye R-27R + R-27T together" memes if we indeed can take only two types of AAM?

[Ramius007]

Current FC 3 Fulcrum have adventage in 80-90's scenario over Hornet in kinetic performance and F-16 due having BVR capability that Viper dont have, F-15C is less popular LF module and Tomcat is real adversary, Fulcrum will be dengerous always, and in good hands very dengerous, biggest limitation will be fuel, not avionics, even if ED make radar modelling right, like difficulties of picking cold targets, or radar not being able to see 2 target when 2 planes fly close to each other, it still will be top of food chain, but again, afterburner time is very limited and extra skill Mig pilot will have to learn is gliding back to base  It's significantly less fuel than similar sized US jets, but also less fuel than Viggen or Mirage. My biggest concern is pricing of Mig and fact FC3 is in top 3 most popular modules, it will be hard sell for a lot of people who already own FC3 without some promo for FC3 owners, but it's another topic...

Edited January 11, 2024 by Ramius007

[JetFighterGirl]

Funny of you to think pricing while there was no announcement of what's included in the module. It will be priced at full price that ED wants and lots of people will buy it at that price. I saw a comment form the the ED boss that there won't be any reductions for FC3 as these are two separate products. 

But you know... everything is subject to change.  Collects those ED miles while you can

[Harlikwin]

6 hours ago, twistking said:

I can't follow. Can you elaborate on those "resons", please? Do you think it's possible to bounce datalink radio against the ionosphere with 80s radio tech?

Yes, thats exactly what I'm saying, because I've done it. I'm just not 100% sure if the Russian DL's actually worked like that or not, but from the specs on the radios its certainly a possibility.

10 hours ago, GGTharos said:

There is a list published by someone (you probably know this better than I do) listing the RCS' of various DCS aircraft.   You can probably do some reasonably easy math to determine the detection range according to the radar equation and that RCS

Certainly 3rd party modules have now gone beyond this and there is a probabilistic detection game happening.   FC3 does not have this, and I don't know if the ED FF birds do.

Yeah, I know the chart and it got posted, given that its the 4th root of RCS in the radar equation its likely why I never noticed cuz there is no actual difference between a 3m and 5m target worth noticing its like a few  %range wise. Anyhow the horse is now dead and we are now in the realm of sadonecroposting. 

Edited January 11, 2024 by Harlikwin

[Mateo]

In my opinion discount for FC3 users should be available - even 3 to 5 USD would be kind and attract current users to buy FF module.

[draconus]

13 hours ago, Mateo said:

In my opinion discount for FC3 users should be available - even 3 to 5 USD would be kind and attract current users to buy FF module.

We could have bought the MiG for $5 on sale before so I don't think it's that much of investment to have a life time bonus.

Edited January 12, 2024 by draconus

[Exorcet]

I don't see any need for a discount, but not many would turn it down.

[WinterH]

I think discounts for two full fidelity versions of the same aircraft made by same developer is a good idea, somewhat necessary even in my opinion. However, not sure just a part of the FC3 warrants a discount on a full module. It would be nice gesture if ED decides to give a small discount perhaps, but I can't really say I see it as necessary to be honest.

[AeriaGloria]

4 hours ago, Bremspropeller said:

Naturally - you're my evil twin, after all

The way I understand the VVS/ Frontal Aviation role is that they all have at least a secondary air-ground role. In a way, the Fulcrum is just a Boomer's MiG-21. Which is awesome.

 

Ref the tandem 500kg bombs:

I'd like that loadout, just as much as I'd like possibly jury-rigged loadouts of the 9.12B-varaiant users. Remember, we'll have the maps to depict middle-eastern Fulcrums big time. So as slong as something doesn't require too much (classified) computer fiddling, I'm game.

Ref 9.13:

Didn't the 29S also have a flight-controls upgrade? I seem to remember they gave it 2° more AoA allowance for the AFCS-limiter. I also seem to remember (might be wrong, though) that the 9.12 had those retrofitted in the VVS. Again, that might be an mis-remembrance. Would be awesome to have that tick-box if it was a thing.

9.13 no, but yes for S upgrade. There is 9.12S also when you apply S upgrade to 9.12. A stock 9.13 is only different in humpback of fuel compared to 9.12.

A really doubt a 9.13S will be possible until maybe a MiG-29 2 upgrade in 5-10 years

[Raven (Elysian Angel)]

3 hours ago, some1 said:

or F-15E with Russian ELINT pod of all things

Ooooh I must have missed that! 

Anyway, I learned something new today. Thanks!

[twistking]

6 hours ago, Harlikwin said:

Yes, thats exactly what I'm saying, because I've done it. I'm just not 100% sure if the Russian DL's actually worked like that or not, but from the specs on the radios its certainly a possibility.

I see. Would there be any other benefits of using HF in a rather short range fighter?
Did western aircraft keep using HF after VHF/UHF became widely used?

[Pavlin_33]

On 1/10/2024 at 10:21 PM, Harlikwin said:

...Also I'd have to go back and check but I don't think the jet did auto IFF like just happens in FC3, and given the various co-location problems you see with this on good IFF/radar models like the M2k and the F15E it will be interesting to see if ED models it and how.

...

No auto IFF on the real thing: manual button press, followed by up to 4 second ident period, but IFF in DCS sucks anyway.

[Pavlin_33]

Is it me or is the RL SPO on the MiGgy only capable of detecting missile launches from "Nike Hercules"?

[Harlikwin]

4 hours ago, twistking said:

I see. Would there be any other benefits of using HF in a rather short range fighter?
Did western aircraft keep using HF after VHF/UHF became widely used?

Different propagation methods mostly. NVIS in particular.  Helos used it, the Apache in particular since its quite useful for non line of sight stuff. Not that this is at all modeled in DCS, wouldn't be hard to do tho.

2 hours ago, Pavlin_33 said:

No auto IFF on the real thing: manual button press, followed by up to 4 second ident period, but IFF in DCS sucks anyway.

Thanks for the clarification so I don't have to go dig it up out of a manual. 

 

Edited January 12, 2024 by Harlikwin

[AeriaGloria]

1 hour ago, Pavlin_33 said:

Is it me or is the RL SPO on the MiGgy only capable of detecting missile launches from "Nike Hercules"?

 No? But some had a dedicated light for it with priority. But the whole threat database is programmable with cartridges 

[Harlikwin]

2 hours ago, Pavlin_33 said:

Is it me or is the RL SPO on the MiGgy only capable of detecting missile launches from "Nike Hercules"?

no, SPO-15 is way more capable than that. But hawk and hercules were the major threats in Europe at the time. It had a programmable database. But just limited "lights". 

 

[twistking]

1 hour ago, AeriaGloria said:

[...] the whole threat database is programmable with cartridges 

Interesting feature for the upcoming DTC/mission planner...

[exhausted]

We have a bunch of pretty milktoast trainers. Wouldn't is be great if we also got a MiG-29UB to spice it up? Besides they look cool, in a really ugly way, and have a nice punch.

[draconus]

6 hours ago, Pavlin_33 said:

Is it me or is the RL SPO on the MiGgy only capable of detecting missile launches from "Nike Hercules"?

It's capable of detecting many more SAMs but, as said, it's programmable and it's categorized for the different lights on the Beryoza, grouped by the type and probably also similar search/track radars in band/frequency, so ex. for the "H" light it was usually "Nike Hercules", "Patriot" and "Talos" types.

We had that conversation already in this thread. Here you can find more info:

[Pavlin_33]

I meant detecting launches, as in 2Hz flashing red light together with "beep-beep" sound.

I was not refering to the bottom row of lights that categorize the threat type.

[Avimimus]

23 hours ago, some1 said:

And on the previous videos we saw Ch-47 with the FLIR addon (now removed), or F-15E with Russian ELINT pod of all things.

Everything is subject to change.

...or the Mi-24P with B8 pods

[AeriaGloria]

6 hours ago, Avimimus said:

...or the Mi-24P with B8 pods

Which it loads and fires fine? 
 

As for SPO-15, I’ve heard things that if Nike is in area then it will use it as priority above all other emitters. But nothing about 2 hz launch tone

Edited January 12, 2024 by AeriaGloria