First In, Last Out! F-4E Wild Weasel Trailer and Manual release!

[mondo]

2 hours ago, wowbagger said:

Ya, this is one of the most unfortunate things about the DCS business model. The F-14 was kinda doable because it's carrier based. However, I know my ability to suspend disbelief simply isn't good enough to enjoy an F-4 campaign in the Georgian republic. It was the same for the Viggen.

I'd actually prefer something in the Marianas ... somehow ... maybe a training campaign ...

The Syria map has British/NATO airfields on Cyprus and Turkish/NATO airfields. There's also Jordanian airfields.

[wowbagger]

Yes, I know there's lots of opportunities for good campaigns with maps we have and what's incoming. But all of those depend on some 3rd party campaign maker choosing to do so.

I just meant that any included default campaigns have to be (according to precedence) set on a free map, which thus far has meant Black Sea north shore. I would totally support the default campaign being in Syria/Sinai/PG, or even waiting to have it released so it could be on Kola. But I guess I'm in a minority on that, and it would never happen.

I guess I'm just super tired of the Caucasus, and especially flying aircraft there which would never have been in the area. It makes everything feel so bleh.

[upyr1]

On 1/26/2024 at 4:15 PM, Kalasnkova74 said:

Well done. Dont let the naysayers and deadline pushers get yall down. When you build it, we will come.

I am already in line. Just waiting on my t-shirt and Phantom. 

[Peter5on]

After seeing this happy face in your manual it cannot be unseen...

[Indianajon]

Hi @IronMike, apologies if this has been answered elsewhere. I have looked but been unable to find it.

Is there anywhere that we can get images of each of the panels? Obviously in the manual you show them with numbers and then broken down by switch, but what i would like is clear close ups of each overall panel in turn. My plan (yes its nerdy) would be to print them out so i can work through the checklists and get comfortable with the switchology and where everything is so I'm set for my first cold and dark on release.

Ta

[LG_Barons]

Nice video, but small mistake in the beginning. 20th FS was not a Wild Weasel Squadron.

[Elf1606688794]

4 hours ago, LG_Barons said:

Nice video, but small mistake in the beginning. 20th FS was not a Wild Weasel Squadron.

To my knowledge, all of the E models could carry the Shrike which makes them all capable of Wild Weasel missions.

[hermes7226]

Hi all! In the advertising description of the module in the store, there is a mention of such a new feature as an electronic tablet, but in the new manual, I did not find its description. Perhaps I did not understand the functionality of the tablet correctly and this section is present in the manual, please point to it. 

[Bullant]

Damn it, was holding out but this video made me pony up for the pre-order. Good work to all involved.

[Volator]

On 1/26/2024 at 10:55 PM, IronMike said:

 

First In, Last Out! Enjoy this gameplay trailer of upcoming wild weasel fun in DCS: F-4E.
 

 

Today, we're also proud to unveil and unleash the pre-release manual for our F-4E, available here:

 

https://f4.manuals.heatblur.se/

 

Get your reading glasses on and enjoy learning about your new ride. Feedback is welcome; and we look forward to expanding the Phantom manual with your suggestions and contributions.

Please Note: GitHub and PDF Link are not live yet.

Your Heatblur Team

 

 

Can we please have a t-shirt with the Wild Weasel "YGBSM" logo in the HB store?  Insta-buy

[Vampyre]

On 2/2/2024 at 4:20 PM, Elf1606688794 said:

To my knowledge, all of the E models could carry the Shrike which makes them all capable of Wild Weasel missions.

  The 20th TFTS was the German Air Force training squadron for the F-4F at George AFB (37th and 35th TFW) and Holloman AFB (20th FS, 49th TFW). They used the F-4E until the mid 90's when they then switched to the F-4F for their training missions.

Having the capability to shoot an ARM does not a Wild Weasel make. Project Wild Weasel was started by the USAF in the 1960's to combat the new threat of Soviet SAMs and involved the modification of existing airframes to be able to detect, locate and suppress enemy SAM sites with specialized sensors/weapons. These aircraft with the nature of the missions, and the specialized sensor fits required aircrew with specialized training to be able to hunt down and suppress enemy SAM operators. These aircraft were given designations within the Wild Weasel program: 

Wild Weasel I was a modified F-100F Super Sabre

Wild Weasel II were modified F-4C's (Early and unsuccessful)

Wild Weasel III were F-105 F/G Thunderchiefs

Wild Weasel IV were better modified F-4C's and, under Wild Weasel IV B, a pair of F-4D's

Wild Weasel V was the F-4G

  In the time period represented in the video, the USAF had the F-4G Wild Weasel V. A bog standard F-4E from a non-weasel squadron, particularly a foreign operator training squadron, would not have had the Wild Weasel call sign as neither the crews nor the aircraft were trained/optimized for the role respectively. With the retirement of the F-4G, there are no more actual Wild Weasel Aircraft in the USAF. The confusion encountered seems to come from the modern use of the Wild Weasel call sign by the USAF. The Wild Weasel callsign in today's USAF refers to specially trained crews flying modern multirole aircraft performing the same mission as the crews of old who flew actual Wild Weasel aircraft. In the case of this video, the use of the Wild Weasel moniker is but a marketing ploy. It is designed to sell a product to low knowledge gamers.

 

 

[Art-J]

^ It's all true of course, but I think in this case the video was not designed to aim at "low knowledge gamers" but more at people who are just not so "high horse"-obsessed/anal about rivet counting and procedures. Throughout all the DCS in it's current franken-form, with multiple unit and gameplay limitations and simplifications, we all have to use imagination a bit and make do with what we've got. More often than not, "close enough" is good enough, both in SP and MP missions. Can't be otherwise, because the only alternative would be no missions at all. So I'm fairly sure once the module releases, lots of people will still perform simplified "faux-Wild-Weasel" sorties with -E, 'cause we will never get a -G or any other "proper" WW airplane in DCS anyway.

[Elf1606688794]

Quote

By mid-1982, the unit had upgraded its aging aircraft for more advanced F-4E and F-4G jets. Each of the wing’s three fighter squadrons flew a mixture of E and G model F-4 fighters. The airplanes were paired into “Wild Weasel” hunter/killer teams capable of locating and destroying enemy radar-guided, surface-to-air threats in any weather.

https://www.spangdahlem.af.mil/About-Us/Fact-Sheets/Article/293639/wing-history/

 

My first crew chief on a weapons load crew had just come from Spangdahlem AB in Germany where he worked on the F-4E and F-4G both of which could (and did) carry the Shrike on Wild Weasel missions. (He was pretty much in awe of those pilots cast iron cajones in deliberately attacking SAM sites.)

If you notice, I said that "to my knowledge, ALL F-4E's could carry the Shrike which makes them capable of Wild Weasel missions", not that all of them were trained to do so. 

My comment was in response to someone saying that the 20th FS wasn't a Wild Weasel squadron. He's right of course but that doesn't mean the aircraft they flew weren't capable of Wild Weasel missions. Since this is a game/simulation and we'll never have every single variant that everyone desires, in many instances we'll just have to make do with what we've been offered. In this particular case, it's not to big of a stretch to have German F-4F's substituted by the F-4E, even for Wild Weasel missions. I know thats not ideal, but its what we have.

All that said, your post definitely contained interesting information and I probably should have been more specific in my previous response. 

Edited February 4 by Elf1606688794
Punctuation

[Gunfreak]

7 hours ago, Vampyre said:

  The 20th TFTS was the German Air Force training squadron for the F-4F at George AFB (37th and 35th TFW) and Holloman AFB (20th FS, 49th TFW). They used the F-4E until the mid 90's when they then switched to the F-4F for their training missions.

Having the capability to shoot an ARM does not a Wild Weasel make. Project Wild Weasel was started by the USAF in the 1960's to combat the new threat of Soviet SAMs and involved the modification of existing airframes to be able to detect, locate and suppress enemy SAM sites with specialized sensors/weapons. These aircraft with the nature of the missions, and the specialized sensor fits required aircrew with specialized training to be able to hunt down and suppress enemy SAM operators. These aircraft were given designations within the Wild Weasel program: 

Wild Weasel I was a modified F-100F Super Sabre

Wild Weasel II were modified F-4C's (Early and unsuccessful)

Wild Weasel III were F-105 F/G Thunderchiefs

Wild Weasel IV were better modified F-4C's and, under Wild Weasel IV B, a pair of F-4D's

Wild Weasel V was the F-4G

  In the time period represented in the video, the USAF had the F-4G Wild Weasel V. A bog standard F-4E from a non-weasel squadron, particularly a foreign operator training squadron, would not have had the Wild Weasel call sign as neither the crews nor the aircraft were trained/optimized for the role respectively. With the retirement of the F-4G, there are no more actual Wild Weasel Aircraft in the USAF. The confusion encountered seems to come from the modern use of the Wild Weasel call sign by the USAF. The Wild Weasel callsign in today's USAF refers to specially trained crews flying modern multirole aircraft performing the same mission as the crews of old who flew actual Wild Weasel aircraft. In the case of this video, the use of the Wild Weasel moniker is but a marketing ploy. It is designed to sell a product to low knowledge gamers.

 

 

Well, that escalated quickly.

From saying the markings are wrong. To accuse Heatblur of purposefully tricking customers with false advertising.

[Vampyre]

2 minutes ago, Gunfreak said:

Well, that escalated quickly.

From saying the markings are wrong. To accuse Heatblur of purposefully tricking customers with false advertising.

It was purposeful to draw attention to the product by using the wild weasel call sign. I didn't say Heatblur was purposefully tricking anyone. The creator of the video might not know the history either and is just regurgitating bunk information because it sounds cool. That was your assumption. But you are correct in assuming it is false advertising. The truth is the truth no matter how one feels about it.

[felixx75]

I still can't see a problem with the video... Virtually everyone who is interested in the F-4 here in DCS knew that Heatblur offers an F-4E and not an F-4G. It was a cool promotional video. No more and no less.

[Gunfreak]

14 minutes ago, Vampyre said:

It was purposeful to draw attention to the product by using the wild weasel call sign. I didn't say Heatblur was purposefully tricking anyone. The creator of the video might not know the history either and is just regurgitating bunk information because it sounds cool. That was your assumption. But you are correct in assuming it is false advertising. The truth is the truth no matter how one feels about it.

Quote

Wild Weasel is a code name given by the United States Air Force (USAF) to an aircraft of any type equipped with anti-radiation missiles and tasked with the suppression of enemy air defenses (SEAD): destroying the radar and surface-to-air missile (SAM) installations of enemy air defense systems.^[1][2] 

The F16 wild Weasel is the F-16CJ/DJ. Yet in DCS  we have regular  F16C Block 50.

Are you saying the DCS campaign First in Weasels Over Syria Campaign is also false advertising?

[Vampyre]

35 minutes ago, Elf1606688794 said:

https://www.spangdahlem.af.mil/About-Us/Fact-Sheets/Article/293639/wing-history/

 

My first crew chief on a weapons load crew had just come from Spangdahlem AB in Germany where he worked on the F-4E and F-4G both of which could (and did) carry the Shrike on Wild Weasel missions. (He was pretty much in awe of those pilots cast iron cajones in deliberately attacking SAM sites.)

The 52nd TFW at Spang was originally a single F-4G squadron and two F-4E DMAS squadrons. The USAFE experimented with combining both the F-4G and DMAS E's into three identical squadrons. It was an effort to try to expand the effectiveness of the Weasels in Europe without having to modify more airframes to F-4G Wild Weasel standard. They flew in what were called Hunter/Killer teams with either two or four ship formations with the Weasel as the hunter and the standard fighter bombers as the killers. The Weasel would locate and suppress and direct the fighter bombers to destroy what was left. It is interesting to note that the DMAS F-4E's were soon replaced by Block 25 F-16C's and then separated into separate squadrons once again.

[Vampyre]

4 minutes ago, Gunfreak said:

The F16 wild Weasel is the F-16CJ/DJ. Yet in DCS  we have regular  F16C Block 50.

Are you saying the DCS campaign First in Weasels Over Syria Campaign is also false advertising?

Read my original post again... particularly the part in the middle of the last paragraph.

[Gunfreak]

1 minute ago, Vampyre said:

Read my original post again... particularly the part in the middle of the last paragraph.

Except your strongly held belief. There is nothing in the heatblur video that is counter to what wild weasel means.

[Vampyre]

Just now, Gunfreak said:

Except your strongly held belief. There is nothing in the heatblur video that is counter to what wild weasel means.

Except the fact that the 20th FS was a training squadron at George in the 1980's that never did the mission. That is what this tempest in a teacup is all about. Those who know better will point out the discrepancy and those who don't will say it's fine. The information I posted is a clarification for everyone to digest and at least have a clue to what the history is. It is all correct.  The strongly held belief part is funny though. It's just history.

[Gunfreak]

5 minutes ago, Vampyre said:

Except the fact that the 20th FS was a training squadron at George in the 1980's that never did the mission. That is what this tempest in a teacup is all about. Those who know better will point out the discrepancy and those who don't will say it's fine. The information I posted is a clarification for everyone to digest and at least have a clue to what the history is. It is all correct.  The strongly held belief part is funny though. It's just history.

There are 2 ways to use the term wild weasel.

1. Relating to the specific aircraft in the wild weasel program (the only truly valid use according to you)

2. Wild Weasel is a code name given by the United States Air Force (USAF) to an aircraft of any type equipped with anti-radiation missiles and tasked with the suppression of enemy air defenses (SEAD): destroying the radar and surface-to-air missile (SAM) installations of enemy air defense systems.[1][2] 

 

The video showed an F-4E doing SEAD/DEAD well with the second definition of Wild Weasel. The video says F4E not F4G. 

 

So you going full nuclear with:

Quote

In the case of this video, the use of the Wild Weasel moniker is but a marketing ploy. It is designed to sell a product to low knowledge gamers.

 

Quote

But you are correct in assuming it is false advertising

Is rather way way way beyond anything within reason.

[Elf1606688794]

26 minutes ago, Vampyre said:

Except the fact that the 20th FS was a training squadron at George in the 1980's that never did the mission. That is what this tempest in a teacup is all about. Those who know better will point out the discrepancy and those who don't will say it's fine. The information I posted is a clarification for everyone to digest and at least have a clue to what the history is. It is all correct.  The strongly held belief part is funny though. It's just history.

Incorrect. We're simply saying its something as gamers that we have to deal with because we can never have every variant for historical accuracy in every possible scenario.

I would also put forth that you are the only one creating the tempest in a teacup.

I will again quote part of the website that shows the history of the USAF at Spangdahlem AB in Germany and highlight the important part that you might have missed.
 

Quote

By mid-1982, the unit had upgraded its aging aircraft for more advanced F-4E and F-4G jets. Each of the wing’s three fighter squadrons flew a mixture of E and G model F-4 fighters. The airplanes were paired into “Wild Weasel” hunter/killer teams capable of locating and destroying enemy radar-guided, surface-to-air threats in any weather.

The F-4E's could, and did, carry Shrikes for killing the radar sites and that is historically accurate. That is what makes them capable of performing the Wild Weasel mission. No one is arguing that a German training squadron was doing Wild Weasel missions.

Edited February 4 by Elf1606688794

[Vampyre]

8 minutes ago, Elf1606688794 said:

Incorrect. We're simply saying its something as gamers that we have to deal with because we can never have every variant for historical accuracy in every possible scenario.

I would also put forth that you are the only one creating the tempest in a teacup.

I will again quote part of the website that shows the history of the USAF at Spangdahlem AB in Germany and highlight the important part that you might have missed.
 

The F-4E's could, and did, carry Shrikes for killing the radar sites and that is historically accurate. That is what makes them capable of performing the Wild Weasel mission. No one is arguing that a German training squadron was doing Wild Weasel missions.

 

https://forum.dcs.world/topic/342619-first-in-last-out-f-4e-wild-weasel-trailer-and-manual-release/?do=findComment&comment=5377495

 

[Elf1606688794]

2 minutes ago, Vampyre said:

https://forum.dcs.world/topic/342619-first-in-last-out-f-4e-wild-weasel-trailer-and-manual-release/?do=findComment&comment=5377495

 

That doesn't take into account that the F-4E's at Spangdahlem carried Shrikes also in the Wild Weasel role or that every other F-4E could also carry Shrikes. (This doesn't mean that every aircrew was trained in Wild Weasel missions, just that the airframes were capable.)

Were you at Spangdahlem? Did you personally know anyone that was? I knew several, not just my old crew chief.

Lastly, you are beginning to bore me with your tunnel vision.