waiting for resolution RAZBAM Situation Post Archive (will be deleted)

[LordOrion]

26 minutes ago, Rudel_chw said:

 

On my case, the time I spent learning a module is almost as valuable as the actual cost of it, and while the RB modules still work on DCS just like yesterday, I do worry about the future and if it is worth it to keep learning the F-15E and editing missions for it.

I have already been hit by a very similar issue, with the Hawk, which I was able to use for only a couple of years before DCS was not able to run it in flyable form. I got absolutely no refund and at the time was just relieved that I hadn't also pre-purchased the P-40E from the same 3rd party:

 

 

This time, my stakes are much higher, since I own every one of the RB modules released for DCS, and losing them does not make me a happy customer. I'm still hopeful that RB and ED will fix their relationship, but in the meantime I had refused to invest anymore on DCS, skipping on pre-purchasing Afganistan or the CH-47 ... but Kola did break my resolve, since the Viggen is my absolute favorite DCS aircraft.

 

For the time being, I will keep my fingers crossed, but I doubt that I will purchase more DCS products on the future if this issue is not solved.

Best regards,

 

Eduardo

The idea of losing the Harrier and the Mirage in 2/3 years doesn't make me happy, but I could live with it: they are almost-complete modules and I would have plenty of time to enjoy them. But losing the F-15E, which was released less than a year ago and is therefore far behind in development would piss me off to death.

 

[JuiceIsLoose]

5 hours ago, SkateZilla said:

Why is everyone acting like the F-15E is gone?

It's still functioning the same as it was prior to the disagreement being public, it's not like it was removed or disabled.

Even if there was no disagreement, there's no guarantee there would be updates with every patch, especially new features and/or major fixes..

It is less that the F-15E doesn't work. But there are bugs with the F-15E that, during typical updates, would get fixed. But right now, no development is happening. For instance it is not possible to accurately Loft GBU-10/12. There are de-sync issues, JDAM issues. And that is just bugs. There are many missing items. And again, there is a chance that the next patch could completely brick the F-15E. 

Take the current state of the F-16. The mav boresighting is screwed up (one issue I know of). If ED came out today and said they are halting updates and progress indefinitely. How would that come across? No more F-16 sniper pod. No F-16 pilot body. I feel like users would freak.

Right or wrong, Razbam made a statement that progress is stopped. Right now, there is no certainty that the module will get further developed. Yet the module is still on sale? The frustrating part, is ED has responded with "don't worry, its only one patch", when concerns about this get brought up. But it is not just that RB missed a patch (agree, not every patch has an update for every module), but rather that they have stopped work. That is a big difference, in my opinion at least.

Edited May 8, 2024 by JuiceIsLoose

[Ignition]

5 hours ago, SkateZilla said:

Why is everyone acting like the F-15E is gone?

It's still functioning the same as it was prior to the disagreement being public, it's not like it was removed or disabled.

Even if there was no disagreement, there's no guarantee there would be updates with every patch, especially new features and/or major fixes..

The last update for the aircraft was 3 months ago. It only had updates for only 7 months since release. It has a lot of features missing and a lot of bugs. At least 3 core developers of the aircraft left the team.

Why are you acting as everything is fine with the aircraft?

I only fly the F-15E.

[plott1964]

I think the problem is that:

1. (most importantly) DCS flyers love to whine!
2. We believe that we spend A LOT of money on these mods - more then some other sims out there.
3. ...so that brings with it many expectations.
4. We expect to get regular updates - especially during EA.
5. We do not understand the programing side of things - but still expect these aircraft to be realistic and have very few bugs.
6. ED is not communicating often enough to tame our relenting imaginations regarding what the future holds.

[MAXsenna]

I think the problem is that:

1. (most importantly) DCS flyers love to whine!
2. We believe that we spend A LOT of money on these mods - more then some other sims out there.
3. ...so that brings with it many expectations.
4. We expect to get regular updates - especially during EA.
5. We do not understand the programing side of things - but still expect these aircraft to be realistic and have very few bugs.
6. ED is not communicating often enough to tame our relenting imaginations regarding what the future holds.

We need more commandments!

Sent from my SM-A536B using Tapatalk

[YSIAD_RIP]

26 minutes ago, MAXsenna said:

We need more commandments!

Sent from my SM-A536B using Tapatalk
 

7. You shall have no other Flight Simulator before me?

8. Honor your flightstick and your throttle?

[Hog_driver]

9. Thou shalt never leave thine modules unfinished!

Edited May 8, 2024 by Hog_driver

[Qcumber]

10. You shall not covet DCS maps, you shall not covet DCS airplanes, nor their helicopters, nor their tanks, nor their ships, nor their I-16, nor anything that is ED. 

[Slippa]

3 hours ago, Hog_driver said:

9. Thou shalt never leave thine modules unfinished!

 

Surely that’d come under seven deadly sins? Oh Christ, me and my big mouth, better not start those off.

[GregP]

I've been reluctant to respond to this thread because at the end of the day, all this conjecture feels mostly pointless to me. But I've been reading the whole thread and finally decided that, as a fan who has been with the franchise since the very beginning, I thought it was worth pointing out the following, which is of course just my opinion.

I waited excitedly a long time for the release of the Strike Eagle and I sincerely hope that RAZBAM and ED work out their differences and support for the module continues into the future.  But in the event that it does not, I think people who claim that this has shaken their faith in the entire franchise are a bit silly when there's such a diversity of developers in this space. In particular, I think it's impossible to ignore the very obvious facts that:

1) RB has never done a great job with timely updates on any of their modules; 

2) Frankly the feeling that I get from many of their statements over the years is that they're often hotheaded and just simply not as professional an outfit as say, Heatblur, who are also vastly better at point #1 above.

And so my point is, in some sense I'm not surprised that this has turned out the way it has, but luckily we have other, more reliable options and over time maybe we'll see the community shift to supporting more of those kinds of developers, letting their wallets speak for them.

[MAXsenna]

These are great guys!  

14 hours ago, Slippa said:

Surely that’d come under seven deadly sins? Oh Christ, me and my big mouth, better not start those off.

We better get us some virtues then.  

[Beirut]

29 minutes ago, MAXsenna said:

These are great guys!  

We better get us some virtues then.  

 

We drink responsibly while flying irresponsibly.   

[freehand]

14 hours ago, GregP said:

I've been reluctant to respond to this thread because at the end of the day, all this conjecture feels mostly pointless to me. But I've been reading the whole thread and finally decided that, as a fan who has been with the franchise since the very beginning, I thought it was worth pointing out the following, which is of course just my opinion.

I waited excitedly a long time for the release of the Strike Eagle and I sincerely hope that RAZBAM and ED work out their differences and support for the module continues into the future.  But in the event that it does not, I think people who claim that this has shaken their faith in the entire franchise are a bit silly when there's such a diversity of developers in this space. In particular, I think it's impossible to ignore the very obvious facts that:

1) RB has never done a great job with timely updates on any of their modules; 

2) Frankly the feeling that I get from many of their statements over the years is that they're often hotheaded and just simply not as professional an outfit as say, Heatblur, who are also vastly better at point #1 above.

And so my point is, in some sense I'm not surprised that this has turned out the way it has, but luckily we have other, more reliable options and over time maybe we'll see the community shift to supporting more of those kinds of developers, letting their wallets speak for them.

Interesting post & valid to a seasoned DCS user.

[Futurecvsh]

finish your work!!! Do what you have to do and respect the community that feeds you!!! RAZBAM you are NOT professional AT ALL!!

[Slippa]

1 hour ago, Beirut said:

 

We drink responsibly while flying irresponsibly.   

Which reminds me.

Thou shalt not covet thy neighbours curves. Not while on the sauce anyway. Thou shalt not delve into ones own curves while hammered and go bloody tinkering with em either. Lest one shall be spinning uncontrollably without a chance in hell of salvation.

[Oceandar]

Development stop because no money ? Look at BMS team.
Fulfil the obligation or allow the refund.

The F-15E is the last Razbam module for me.

[JetCat]

23 hours ago, YSIAD_RIP said:

7. You shall have no other Flight Simulator before me?

It is only days before the Black Square Duke releases. The Black Square Duke has the same priority as the other exciting new modules Apache, the Phantom, Hind and A-10. Flying was never before more great than now, with a wide variety of very different planes and helicopters from all eras. Unfortunately the Duke is in that other simulator, the one that takes at least 5 and up to 20 minutes of loading time to finally reach the main menu *gg so launching that other simulator is often needed too.

The F-15E on the other hand seems to be dead now and forever. With the two engineers developing the radar having left the team, everything is lost now for this plane. Luckily the future-proof Apache with it´s awesome night flying infrared vision and night vision capabilities has replaced the F-15E in the meantime, and flying this secretive elusive night hunter is even more challenging and interesting than getting another jet with very similar systems like my other three.

 

11.) Thou shalt buy every brandnew DCS module and praise it´s photorealistic visuals and awesome system realism, especially after sunset.

 

[JuiceIsLoose]

1 hour ago, Oceandar said:

Development stop because no money ? Look at BMS team.
Fulfil the obligation or allow the refund.

The F-15E is the last Razbam module for me.

Big difference when the people doing BMS go into it knowing there isn’t a paycheck… Razbam isn’t the one denying the refund, that’s ED. And regardless of what happened ED not paying RB is what caused the development to stop. Whether ED is justified in not paying is another topic.

 

 

[jojyrocks]

48 minutes ago, JuiceIsLoose said:

Big difference when the people doing BMS go into it knowing there isn’t a paycheck… Razbam isn’t the one denying the refund, that’s ED. And regardless of what happened ED not paying RB is what caused the development to stop. Whether ED is justified in not paying is another topic.

 

 

 

 

Paycheck...refund or not. I do not see the OTHER developers having problems much. At the end of the day...we the buyers of these RAZBAM modules are left hanging for the modules we have already payed big, RAZBAM modules. 

 

 

 

 

 

[JuiceIsLoose]

13 minutes ago, jojyrocks said:

 

 

Paycheck...refund or not. I do not see the OTHER developers having problems much. At the end of the day...we the buyers of these RAZBAM modules are left hanging for the modules we have already payed big, RAZBAM modules. 

 

 

 

 

 

The issue could be resolved by ED paying Razbam. I wouldn’t expect Razbam to work for free. Just as I wouldn’t work for free, would you? So then it is ED choosing to not let work continue on the F-15E, by not paying. Now again, whether ED is justified in not paying is another topic.

Yes Razbam develops the module, but ED collects the payment from you, not Razbam. 

[Evg85]

10 минут назад, JuiceIsLoose сказал:

The issue could be resolved by ED paying Razbam. I wouldn’t expect Razbam to work for free. Just as I wouldn’t work for free, would you? So then it is ED choosing to not let work continue on the F-15E, by not paying. Now again, whether ED is justified in not paying is another topic.

Yes Razbam develops the module, but ED collects the payment from you, not Razbam. 

 

That is, RAZBAM does not receive a penny for its work? This is just outrageous (I'm not talking about ED's greed, I'm talking about your stupid statement.)

Edited May 9, 2024 by Evg85

[eFirehawk]

9 minutes ago, Evg85 said:

 

That is, RAZBAM does not receive a penny for its work? This is just outrageous (I'm not talking about ED's greed, I'm talking about your stupid statement.)

 

This is what RB's CEO and the team claims. They claim that they were not paid. With that in mind, could you please explain like I'm 5, what is stupid about his comment exactly? If the devs didn't get paid (for whatever reason) it is understandable if they don't accept to work for free. What is wrong with his comment please? Would you keep working for a company that stops paying you indefinitely?

[BIGNEWY]

Folks please be sure you stick to the forum rules when posting. 

Thank you 

[Evg85]

8 часов назад, eFirehawk сказал:

This is what RB's CEO and the team claims. They claim that they were not paid. With that in mind, could you please explain like I'm 5, what is stupid about his comment exactly? If the devs didn't get paid (for whatever reason) it is understandable if they don't accept to work for free. What is wrong with his comment please? Would you keep working for a company that stops paying you indefinitely?

 

Do you seriously believe RAZBAM's words that EDs are not paid for their work? If this were true, we would see outraged third-party developers. But nothing like that happens.

Just think logically. ED is a serious company with a serious attitude towards their business (they take every detail of their modules very seriously). Do you really think that ED would cause reputational damage to itself by not paying money to third-party developers?

On the other hand, we have RAZBAM - a company with a frivolous attitude to its business. Almost all of their modules had and continue to have a number of errors and shortcomings that have not been eliminated for many years. And what is their trick worth involving their clients in their intrigues with ED - people who trusted them and purchased their raw and unfinished modules, counting on their integrity?

 

Based on these facts, I have no reason to trust RAZBAM

[giullep]

I will ask if I can...I bought this module=product (made by Razbam or made by anyone) in the ED shop, I paid ED, and then if there is a problem on this product I ask a solution from the Shop where I build it..I will wait I would expect to receive at least some response from the reseller of a product he purchased and which seems to have problems...instead the problem seems to be with those who purchased from them... well I don't think it should be like this