waiting for resolution RAZBAM Situation Post Archive (will be deleted)

[Shibbyland]

What's fascinating is how it's blown up so much more now than it did in April. Was it the M2000c bugs turning up that lit it up so much or has something else changed because so far as I can tell, the news is exactly the same as it was in April?

It's a shame Razbam's CEO self destructed with his public statements. The damage it's done to his own brand and that of ED is massive. If all of us got refunds for the Eagle and then put that money into the next module, that's profit for this year just lost for ED, all the work on whatever next module gets our money just to get themselves back to where they were.

It's also a shame it couldn't be mediated and is now in the hands of legal teams. It'll go on for ages, cost everybody a heap of money and in the meantime it undermines the rest of ED and seems to be overshadowing the EA release of the Phantom. 

As others have said, I don't know the ins and outs of things but I know for absolutely certain that Razbam's public statements are an unmitigated disaster and in total bad faith.

I'm resolved to just get a refund on the Eagle, avoid the other Razbam modules and see where the chips fall. Might buy the F-15 again, might not but truth be told, I didn't have much confidence in its development before all this.

Edited June 9, 2024 by Shibbyland

[fjacobsen]

Personally I want to wait claiming a refund for the F-15E, simply because it´s still not clear if the ED/Razbam issues will be resolved, so I try to keep a cool head and rather like to wait, simply to help not fueling the fire that is raging within the community right now.

 

But to be sure.....

@BIGNEWYJust to be sure - the day when it will be clear that the issues with Razbam cannot be fixed and support ultimately will be ended for Razbam modules - will I then still be possible to get a refund for the F-15E, and how will the situation for the M2000 and AV-8B be ?

 

I think it´s fair for us customers to know where we stand, should Razbam definitly close down support for their DCS modules. 

 

Edited June 9, 2024 by fjacobsen

[BIGNEWY]

3 minutes ago, fjacobsen said:

@BIGNEWYJust to be sure - the day when it will be clear that the issues with Razbam cannot be fixed and support ultimately will be ended for Razbam modules - will I then still be possible to get a refund for the F-15E, and how will the situation for the M2000 and AV-8B be ?

Hi, 

as I understand it the F-15E will be able to be refunded for a store credit. As for the others it is an unknown at the moment as it all depends on the resolution of this dispute. 

Again all we can do now is wait and see, we all hope for a good outcome. 

[LimePartician]

3 minutes ago, BIGNEWY said:

Hi, 

as I understand it the F-15E will be able to be refunded for a store credit. As for the others it is an unknown at the moment as it all depends on the resolution of this dispute. 

Again all we can do now is wait and see, we all hope for a good outcome. 

Soooo, you guys still have RAZBAM products on sale. Even though they currently are dead and are no longer receiving and development? 

[de_Lutz]

so much pages to read  but didnt found the answer for my question, so...

 

@BIGNEWY

 

if the worst case happens, RB drops the complete support for their products, is it possible that you, ED, can still keep the Planes from RB flyable in the future? For example, the F-15E, i still want to use it in the future, even with less features then. Just flyable. 

 

But i hope both sides find a solution for this situation and keep going 

[BIGNEWY]

5 minutes ago, LimePartician said:

Soooo, you guys still have RAZBAM products on sale. Even though they currently are dead and are no longer receiving and development? 

People are jumping the gun a little, they may not understand that there is a process for removing a product from sale. Again we need to wait for the resolution of the dispute. 

thank you

[felixx75]

Razbam modules are not dead until ED and Razbam say they are. This has not happened so far for obvious reasons. All we know at the moment is that the development and maintenance of new or existing modules has been paused. Nothing more and nothing less.

Could the worst case scenario happen? Sure, it can. But so far this is not the case, even if many are acting as if it already is.

However, for my part, I won't say/write anything more about it and will simply avoid this thread.

I'll wait and see what happens and continue to have fun with DCS, because there's nothing I can do about the situation either way.

[LimePartician]

Just now, BIGNEWY said:

Again we need to wait for the resolution of the dispute. 

So an eternity? It's been over a month and instead of just agreeing to things, RB is getting ghosted by ED.

[BIGNEWY]

1 minute ago, de_Lutz said:

if the worst case happens, RB drops the complete support for their products, is it possible that you, ED, can still keep the Planes from RB flyable in the future? For example, the F-15E, i still want to use it in the future, even with less features then. Just flyable. 

Again it something I can not answer currently, so much depends on the final outcome, contracts are in place and have clauses and it depends if they are honoured or not. 

We all hope for a good outcome. 

Just now, LimePartician said:

So an eternity? It's been over a month and instead of just agreeing to things, RB is getting ghosted by ED.

It can take a lot of time sorry, we can not give any eta. 

[felixx75]

4 minutes ago, BIGNEWY said:

People are jumping the gun a little, they may not understand that there is a process for removing a product from sale. Again we need to wait for the resolution of the dispute. 

thank you

You know the story of Don Quijote...?

Edited June 9, 2024 by felixx75

[Beirut]

The saddest part of all this... no GBU-28 for my Strike Eagle.

 

No beeg badaboom. 

[SkateZilla]

1 minute ago, LimePartician said:

So an eternity? It's been over a month and instead of just agreeing to things, RB is getting ghosted by ED.

So says people on discord, that prolly aren't even present at the tables or meetings.

ED would not blindly agree to RB's terms for the same reason RB would not be expected to blindly agree to EDs terms.

So no one is going "just agree" to everything, and it's been upwards a year since the contract breach per RB, not a month.

2 minutes ago, Beirut said:

The saddest part of all this... no GBU-28 for my Strike Eagle.

 

No beeg badaboom. 

I kinda want some type of AI to sit in the back seat, when there's no WSO, it can get too quiet.

[BIGNEWY]

4 minutes ago, Beirut said:

The saddest part of all this... no GBU-28 for my Strike Eagle.

 

No beeg badaboom. 

Lets hope it can be resolved, it is a great module and a lot of fun. 

[Gizmo03]

vor 57 Minuten schrieb felixx75:

The fact that this thread now has 63 pages can only be explained by the absolute determination of those involved to imagine the worst or even wish for the worst.
We simply do not have enough reliable information about the matter between ED and Razbam to discuss it meaningfully. You're all just going round in circles without anything constructive coming out of it.

But patience has never been a human strength... (at least for most)

Exactly. In the meantime it's been completely useless to come here in order to get some information about the status (as the title says).
BN and NL have to answer the same questions about how do get back the money again and again.....and again. Don't get me wrong - i appreciate that.
95% of the posts here are just negative and as soon as there is someone coming along with some hope it seems to me a race about who is the first one to destroy this little rest of hope starts immediately. 2 or 3 weeks ago i said already to myself that i will stop reading here but to be honest i'm still reading every day but i limited the post i'm reading to the ones from BigNewy and NineLine because they are the ONLY guys who can really give some Information as soon as there are some. I'm not interested in the assumtions and expectations of some hobby lawyers.
And since this is already enough for me of this thread for today i will go back to my OH-58D which i bought yesterday (yes - i am one of the stupid guys who are still buying modules.... ) to enjoy this really well made module in the best flight sim i've seen so far .

Edited June 9, 2024 by Gizmo03

[bulding]

I deplore the media hype, its not constructive

[Maberickxx88]

If the worse happens and RB stops supporting their modules, I think ED provides us the latest Version of the game in which all razbam modules are in a working stage, like the did with the hawk. Still good for singleplayer then. 

[Nightdare]

21 minutes ago, LimePartician said:

So an eternity? It's been over a month and instead of just agreeing to things, RB is getting ghosted by ED.

 

Agree to what?

This is some party not holding to contractual stipulations (or not in the way the other party interprets the stipulations), not about who left an empty milk carton in the fridge,

And since both parties can't come to an agreement, this means all communication has to go between the lawyers, not the companies

If RB didn't want to be "ghosted", they simply could have agreed to whatever ED demanded, that way, no lawyers would have gotten involved and no arguments had to be investigated within/outside the legal obligations of the contract

 

Really, whenever I look into this thread, it surprises me how little people know about something as simple as the reason for the existence of contracts

It surprises me even more how little value these same people think contracts have

People, this isn't your playboy subscription, it's business law

[Maberickxx88]

vor 54 Minuten schrieb de_Lutz:

so much pages to read  but didnt found the answer for my question, so...

 

@BIGNEWY

 

if the worst case happens, RB drops the complete support for their products, is it possible that you, ED, can still keep the Planes from RB flyable in the future? For example, the F-15E, i still want to use it in the future, even with less features then. Just flyable. 

 

But i hope both sides find a solution for this situation and keep going 

They will stay flyable

[nessuno0505]

12 ore fa, NineLine ha scritto:

all I can tell you is once Lawyers get involved then the higher ups follow their guidance.

 

1 ora fa, BIGNEWY ha scritto:

As for the others it is an unknown at the moment as it all depends on the resolution of this dispute.

 

1 ora fa, SkateZilla ha scritto:

 it's been upwards a year since the contract breach per RB, not a month.

 

1 ora fa, BIGNEWY ha scritto:

Again we need to wait for the resolution of the dispute. 

 

I guess it can take a lot of time then: if it's already going on for a year and now lawyers are involved, it could take years to conclude.

What about the plan for RB's modules in the meanwhile? I can't imagine DCS development to stop and wait for the resolution of the dispute. If (better say when) RB modules will stop to work and the dispute will be still ongoing, what is the plan for their owners? Is there already one?

Edited June 9, 2024 by nessuno0505

[Maberickxx88]

vor 3 Minuten schrieb nessuno0505:

 

 

 

 

I guess it can take a lot of time then: if it's already going on for a year and now lawyers are involved, it could take years to conclude.

What about the plan for RB's modules in the meanwhile? I can't imagine DCS development to stop and wait for the resolution of the dispute. If (better say when) RB modules will stop to work and the dispute will be still ongoing, what is the plan for their owners? Is there already one?

I think they provide us the latest working Version of DCS like it was done before with the hawk. I would be ok with this. 

[nessuno0505]

4 minuti fa, Maberickxx88 ha scritto:

I think they provide us the latest working Version of DCS like it was done before with the hawk. I would be ok with this. 

It could be acceptable if it's the maximum possible, but that would mean the end of RB's modules, as it has been for the hawk (is there really some hawk owner using an old DCS version to fly it?)

Edited June 9, 2024 by nessuno0505

[Maberickxx88]

vor 1 Minute schrieb nessuno0505:

It could be acceptable if it's the maximum possible, but that would mean the end of RB's modules, as it has been for the hawke (is there really some hawke owner using an old DCS version to fly it?)

The hawk was a very bad module. Bad 3d model and the fm was even worse. But for Razbam modules its a different story. If thats the only way to fly the MIG 19 and the f 15, i'll take it

[nessuno0505]

7 minuti fa, Maberickxx88 ha scritto:

If thats the only way to fly the MIG 19 and the f 15, i'll take it

Yes, but how long will you be able to continue using an old version of DCS, as new modules and features are added to the base simulator? RB modules would have life extended a bit, but they would still die over time (moreover no new customer will buy them), unless the dispute ends favorably and Razbam brings them back up to the base simulator (or ED takes care and - if not upgrade - at least update in order to be usable).

Edited June 9, 2024 by nessuno0505

[Scott-S6]

1 hour ago, nessuno0505 said:

Yes, but how long will you be able to continue using an old version of DCS, as new modules and features are added to the base simulator? RB modules would have life extended a bit, but they would still die over time (moreover no new customer will buy them), unless the dispute ends favorably and Razbam brings them back up to the base simulator (or ED takes care and - if not upgrade - at least update in order to be usable).

 

This is what happens with all software - there's no expectation that it'll be updated or supported forever.

[Art-J]

6 hours ago, skywalker22 said:

What in case if you don't want to refound at all? In the worst case scenario, will the F-15E still be used on the servers, so I can fly it offline and online?

And btw, if you get a refound, will you keep the module on your HDD, will still be flyable?

Re. 1st question - it will be used until some core game change in one of future DCS updates breaks its compatibility with the game for good. We can only speculate now that if that happens ED might follow previous example of VEAO Hawk ie. make the last F-15E-compatible version of DCS available for download for some time while the main DCS will continue be developed separately. Of course in such scenario you will have to have 2 copies of DCS installed on your PC. The old one for Strike Eagle, but not upgraded anymore (and thus without any newer aircraft and map releases) and new one for everything else, continuously maintained.

You most likely won't fly Eagle online then, unless you find server running specifically that old version of DCS. 

Mind you, such scenario is not confirmed yet, that't just how Hawk problem was dealt with years ago.

Re. 2nd question - how would you be able to fly it? A refund is a refund - you get some form of a compensation but your licence is cancelled so the plane won't be flyable.