waiting for resolution RAZBAM Situation Post Archive (will be deleted)

[draconus]

15 hours ago, lee1hy said:

And yet ED continues to sell modules without any resolution.

Yes, and what's in it for you to stop selling the module?

I flew SE last night and had a great time. Why would you lock others from this great experience? There are fans of the Eagle all over the world.

If you don't like it just get a refund.

Edited June 9, 2024 by draconus

[PhantomHans]

58 minutes ago, Scott-S6 said:

This is what happens with all software - there's no expectation that it'll be updated or supported forever.

Yhea hold on a second.

I agree with you, but there is a problem with that when it comes to DCS.

Yes, it is normal for software to have support stop at some point.  With flight simulators typically all of it works at the point of the final patch.  Apparently that may not be the case here.  So that's a problem.

And more importantly, unless the authentication servers are kept running for eternity OR they are patched out of the game when they're shut down, it won't just be support that will end it will be your ability to use the software.  Hopefully ED will be kind enough to let us keep playing.

[Horns]

6 hours ago, DUSTY said:

TWO of those aren't ED modules and I purchased the F/A18 on day one and its EA state was nowhere near what the Strike Eagles was on day 1.

I didn’t go back to the post you replied to, so I didn’t realize you were specifically asking about ED modules. I think you’re overestimating the mudhen’s launch state if you think it was in a better state than the Hornet on day one - tbh I don’t think it’s even close - but that is a matter of opinion I guess.

Edit: I'm judging that by the state of the mudhen now compared to day 1 F/A-18 - I actually bought into it after this issue got live. Not really fair for me to keep weighing in as I did without being in the hot seat myself. Maybe my judgement is affected by time and my experience with the EA Harrier. I don't think so, but it's possible.

Edit 2: Since I've had so much bad stuff to say, I will add one good thing: The manual is a *much* better effort than the Harrier. Glad this job went to BD early this time.

 

Edited June 9, 2024 by Horns
Clarity

[diveplane]

please i hope things can be resolved, lets get the products back on track keep DCS and the modules getting better guys ...

[nessuno0505]

1 ora fa, PhantomHans ha scritto:

Yes, it is normal for software to have support stop at some point.   Apparently that may not be the case here.

it won't just be support that will end it will be your ability to use the software.

Exactly. At a certain point software support ends, but I can still use my software as it is on its last patch. Here the base game is still supported, but you loose pieces along the way. Something possible indeed (it's the same that will happen to windows mixed reality in the upcoming win 11 versions, but this has been announced clearly, so that you do not buy a reverb g2 if you know it won't work in a few months).

Edited June 9, 2024 by nessuno0505

[Top Jockey]

1 hour ago, PhantomHans said:

Yhea hold on a second.

I agree with you, but there is a problem with that when it comes to DCS.

Yes, it is normal for software to have support stop at some point.  With flight simulators typically all of it works at the point of the final patch.  Apparently that may not be the case here.  So that's a problem.

And more importantly, unless the authentication servers are kept running for eternity OR they are patched out of the game when they're shut down, it won't just be support that will end it will be your ability to use the software.  Hopefully ED will be kind enough to let us keep playing.

 

... well, everything I've bought from ED was based on those assumptions in bold.

( Except, Flanker 2.0, LOMAC and DCS: BlackShark - as these came in CD or DVD of course. )

 

In other words, I've bought the products under the assumption that, the possibility of using the product I've bought is permanent.

Edited June 9, 2024 by Top Jockey

[kotor633]

vor 9 Stunden schrieb golani79:

Order, purchase, payment .. and then the option with "possible refund"

Thanks for the tip. I have now opened a corresponding ticket.

[LorenLuke]

6 hours ago, DUSTY said:

TWO of those aren't ED modules and I purchased the F/A18 on day one and its EA state was nowhere near what the Strike Eagles was on day 1.

I don't believe that the F/A-18 could reliably crash other players games when it used its ground radar when it came out.

But I bet you know which module did.

[Scott-S6]

2 hours ago, PhantomHans said:

And more importantly, unless the authentication servers are kept running for eternity OR they are patched out of the game when they're shut down, it won't just be support that will end it will be your ability to use the software.  Hopefully ED will be kind enough to let us keep playing.

Yep, that happens with games all the time (and is the reason for GOGs push for DRM-free games) Anything that's online only with no private servers, anything with DRM, anything with anti-cheat, anything with service authentication - it will all become useless when they stop supporting it.

When Windows Live was canned all the games using it were dead - some games got patched to remove it, some didn't.

If denuvo die or make a major change to how their service works then any game that uses it which doesn't get patched will be dead. Online games without private servers (increasingly common) regularly die when support ends. Try playing Elite Dangerous or Helldivers2 when they close the servers. You might be able to play the tutorials or you might not even be able to do that.

1 hour ago, Top Jockey said:

In other words, I've bought the products under the assumption that, the possibility of using the product I've bought is permanent.

If ED were to shutter suddenly (which happens) then that assumption would prove to be incorrect - as soon as the authentication servers are offline then you're done. Even if ED's intent in that scenario is to issue one last patch with DRM removed they may simply not get the opportunity to do so if everyone is fired and locked out one morning. Your best hope is that someone leaks the codebase so it can be community maintained, which has happened a few times, but that action would be criminal if their IP has been purchased.

If you genuinely want software purchases to be permanent then you should be boycotting anyone that releases software with DRM because it carries a very real risk that your purchase may not be permanent.

Edited June 9, 2024 by Scott-S6

[Blackeye]

2 hours ago, draconus said:

If you don't like it just get a refund.

Has anyone really gotten a proper refund or just store credits?

[Horns]

19 hours ago, SkateZilla said:

I kinda want some type of AI to sit in the back seat, when there's no WSO, it can get too quiet.

You could always keep your phone nearby and talk to Siri...

She's suspiciously non-committal when asked if she farted...

Edited June 10, 2024 by Horns
Added vital information

[Rainmaker]

44 minutes ago, LorenLuke said:

I don't believe that the F/A-18 could reliably crash other players games when it used its ground radar when it came out.

But I bet you know which module did.

Well, lets be honest...it didn't have one.  For years.  Still doesn't if you wanna get technical.

And I don't think you wanna start drawing comparisons between the radar of those two aircraft....specially out the gate.

Edited June 9, 2024 by Rainmaker

[Maberickxx88]

Am 7.5.2023 um 06:16 schrieb NineLine:

I sort of think this was talked about one time before, what would happen if it all fell apart, the short answer was your stuff would be fine in that you would still be able to access it. Or we would do our very best to make sure that was the case. That said we are very very healthy right now and continuing to grow and get stronger, while nothing is for sure in this crazy world, this should not be one of those things taking up any brain power to worry about. 

That´s what NineLine has written to a similar question from myself. 

[Pipe]

1 hour ago, Blackeye said:

Has anyone really gotten a proper refund or just store credits?

No proper refunds have been given out..

[Nightstalker]

1 hour ago, Blackeye said:

Has anyone really gotten a proper refund or just store credits?

No, it’s a store credit.  But at least it’s separate from your ED miles.  On your account you will see your miles you have banked and below that your cash credit in US dollars 59.99.  This at least allows you to credit it to a purchase that is not part of the miles program like the Kiowa or Kola map.  Pretty fair if you ask me.  You can even just let it sit there and if the matter resolves itself you use it to re-buy the F15.

Edited June 9, 2024 by Nightstalker

[Blackeye]

6 minutes ago, Nightstalker said:

Pretty fair if you ask me.  You can even just let it sit there and if the matter resolves itself you use it to re-buy the F15.

Doesn't seem fair for a refund to me: I return the module and ED keeps the money - that's more like an interest free loan where eventually you don't get your money back but some software.

 

[Ignition]

We can see how fragile the DCS ecosystem is.

[Silver_Dragon]

14 minutes ago, Ignition said:

We can see how fragile the DCS ecosystem is.

What fragile? The "drama" has only has into ED and a 3rd Party by a "Legal Dispute". Remember has other 19 3rd parties, without problems.

[Galinette]

On 6/8/2024 at 4:18 PM, Fuchs said:

Galinette explained on 25/05 that in fact RB has try to make big money on the "pro/Gov" market without using/paying for the pro version of DCS (MCS)
arguing that apparently ED has no specific rules at that time against...

When we know how much a pro contract can bring in your account with the support costs and so on, we can understand why ED was a bit mad...

Could you please quote or link the exact message from Galinette?

[Fuchs]

Just now, Kercheiz said:

Could you please quote or link the exact message from Galinette?

If the Moderators says that it's allowed yes as it's print screen from a discord

 

[Mizzy]

I prefer to stay clear of all this, but, how many modules are you able to still use and they are updated regularly ! Razbam are not Eagle Dynamics, they don't have the power to do anything other than complain about whatever. Someone said this has been going on for a year or so, when was the F-15E released?

I dare say many of us have a load of modules we purchased but hardly use or don't use at all, the three modules I have bought from Razbam I don't use but that's not to say I won't in the future but it's software development that also uses outsourced products and this sort of thing happens quite frequently in other sectors. How many games have you all bought (with their add-ons) over the years that are all now abandonware. DCS is continually developing and getting better all the time, I am not going to let one developer steal the show! 

Lastly, what has annoyed me most is Razbam bringing all this into the public domain, they have damaged their reputation beyond repair in DCS so I am not expecting them to be hanging around here for much longer. RB also seem to rely far too much on outside expertise and therefore vulnerable, maybe they are not up to the job, who knows. I was very surprised when I saw they were developing for DCS having experienced their work in MSFS, anyway let's see if Razbam come to their senses before this goes too far and irreversible but RB have a lot more to lose than ED and afterall IP is protected under various Laws.

Mizzy  

[Pipe]

55 minutes ago, Silver_Dragon said:

What fragile? The "drama" has only has into ED and a 3rd Party by a "Legal Dispute". Remember has other 19 3rd parties, without problems.

and you know this?...how?

if you're privy to all this info, maybe you can shed some light on the current situation

Edited June 9, 2024 by Pipe

[Galinette]

23 minutes ago, Fuchs said:

If the Moderators says that it's allowed yes as it's print screen from a discord

 

Please DM it.

[Mizzy]

19 minutes ago, Pipe said:

and you know this?...how?

 

 

Put it this way, there are NO other third party developers spilling their guts out in public is there! There is nothing fragile about ED, they have been around since early 1990s. If there are any problems, they are keeping it all where it should be...PRIVATE.

Mizzy

[diveplane]

all else fails cant ED buy the modules take over them to fix  keep them updated?.