waiting for resolution RAZBAM Situation Post Archive (will be deleted)

[BIGNEWY]

Just now, nessuno0505 said:

I've always supported ED, but from these last answers it seems that they don't have a completely clear conscience either, so they are very careful and weigh every move to the maximum. They don't have to do anything wrong anymore if they want to bring home the result, whatever it may be. RB's, on the other hand, it is not clear whether they are more hot headed or more naïve, perhaps a bit of both.

We all want what is best for the modules, they are great fun after all, but sadly we have to continue to be patient. As soon as we can share news we will. 

[afnav130]

8 hours ago, Hammer1-1 said:

as if that was the pinnacle of DCS as a whole? there was no a2g radar until the Hornet came out. there was no multi crew until the Tomcat came out...a lot of this stuff needed to be done before the TFR could even be considered, I still dont know why theres no Jester or Petrovich alternative for the F-15E which is really the bane of most of us offline SP guys existence who want to fly the thing. lets climb off that horse please?

Where did I say it was the pinnacle? I just said it was pretty damn good for an EA module right at release, far better than the 16 and 18. Multi crew is cool etc, but what other module in DCS right now can you take a jet at 500G, 200FT at night in the weather (by weather I mean in the fog/clouds) and make it to a target? It is a DCS game changer up with the multi crew and A-G radar introduction. 

[Horns]

4 hours ago, BMO said:

I agree with you that a lot of people arent interested in the Razbam situation, since they maybe dont even have a module from them. I do have some, but I also have enough other modules I have/had fun in. So from that point of view I can live with a world without Razbam (altough it would be very very very sad).

The thing that actually really disturbs me and makes me hesitant about further module buys is the fact that it´s about ED withholding payment. And not for the first time. Ofc there can be many reasons to do that, but all things considered I have the impression that ED has trouble with the cash flow. I simply think that they arent able to pay. 

 

Imagine running multiple construction sites (modules) with the same main contractor because they are known for their quality. They are a bit behind schedule on some of them to put it mildly. Ok no biggie, happens all the time. They promise that everything will be fine and the outcome will be great.

But progress is slow.

Now one of their subcontractors stops work because they dont get paid and ear on the street has it that it wasnt the first time sth like this happened. Ofc could be some legal issues or whatever. But it usually means further delays,cost and stress.

Meanwhile your main contractor starts even more projects.

I think it´s only logical to start asking if they are even able to finish their projects. Would you hire that company again?

The customer is not in the position of running the construction sites or making hiring decisions, they are buying the final products. But there's a further problem with that, the relationship between ED and their 3rd parties is nothing like a prime contractor and their subcontractors - that relationship is closer to something like the studio, Massive Entertainment, producing Star Wars: Outlaws for Ubisoft.

[Czar66]

3 minutes ago, afnav130 said:

Multi crew is cool etc, but what other module in DCS right now can you take a jet at 500G, 200FT at night in the weather (by weather I mean in the fog/clouds) and make it to a target? It is a DCS game changer up with the multi crew and A-G radar introduction. 

Wholeheartedly agree. The 15E breaks the mold/'normality' like the A-10C and I can't stress enough how powerful the aircraft is without being too easy.

I'd add it's legs to the equation. With its fuel capacity, it adds a lot on capabilities, more than the obvious.

[Horns]

19 minutes ago, afnav130 said:

Where did I say it was the pinnacle? I just said it was pretty damn good for an EA module right at release, far better than the 16 and 18. Multi crew is cool etc, but what other module in DCS right now can you take a jet at 500G, 200FT at night in the weather (by weather I mean in the fog/clouds) and make it to a target? It is a DCS game changer up with the multi crew and A-G radar introduction. 

500G?! Are you sure they aren't using the F-15C flight model? 

Edit: Joke, not criticism, easy typo to make, I'm sure I've made it plenty

Edited June 26, 2024 by Horns

[NineLine]

13 hours ago, Notso said:

No disrespect intended @NineLine - but how do you know that YOU know the whole story too?  You likely only know what your management/Nick tells you as well and that carries no more or less weight than what Ron and other RB members have told me directly.  So I think its a bit disingenuous to say that I don't know what's going on.  I fully admit that Ron may be lying to everyone at RB, but I don't think so given what he's shared with the team.  But you would also have to admit that Nick or whoever in the Sr ED chain may not be telling YOU the full story.  I am privy to more than you think.  So lets just leave it at that.

If this is now a legal matter and if you are indeed sharing confidential information given to you directly from Ron, I am not sure I would go about publicly bragging about that. Most lawyers do not enjoy clients' public sharing of information (even via proxy) during legal proceedings. I know the full story of course from the perspective of my team. I am pretty confident I am not being lied to, call me naive but I have had a long and loyal relationship with Nick and the team and I have no concern at all that any of them, including if Nick is leading me down a false path. So maybe you do not have confidence in your information, but I have confidence in my management team. So unless Ron is giving you official information to be shared as official comments on his behalf, please let's drop the guessing and theories, because if you do not have high confidence in that, then this is all that is. Thanks.

[Wizard_03]

Someone is for sure lying to the community, statements made by razbam devs on discord contradict ED's official narrative. They both cannot be true which means we are being deliberately lied too, by people who either don't know the whole story and are talking just to stir the pot or by people who do know the whole story but want to spin it. 

 

So my hope is that when this situation is all over we as the community will hold the party that lied to us accountable. I certainly will. REGARDLESS of the F-15Es fate.

Edited June 26, 2024 by Wizard_03

[Tom Kazansky]

6 minutes ago, Wizard_03 said:

So my hope is that when this situation is all over we as the community will hold the party that lied to us accountable. I certainly will. REGARDLESS of the F-15Es fate.

My hopes are different.

I hope both parties find a solution and don't tell us not a single word about the details.

[Hammer1-1]

9 hours ago, Blackeye said:

And each of the modules you mentioned pushed the envelope at the time they were introduced, just like the F-15E.  You can think of Razbam and this conflict whatever you want but let's also be giving credit where it is due: the F-15E has the best AG radar in DCS, the first TFR and overall it is a great module. And it would be really sad if we lost it.

 

yes it would be sad...but to imply that DCS IS the F-15E is just...a bit much. How many aircraft HAD the TFR? I can think of 4, and only one of them is currently being made in DCS. Its not that groundbreaking. Let me know when the F-111 or the B-1A/B Early/Modern gets a release date, then we'll talk about TFR. FWIW, I think the Tornado being made currently as TFR as well.

Edited June 26, 2024 by Hammer1-1

[AbsurdBurds]

34 minutes ago, Tom Kazansky said:

My hopes are different.

I hope both parties find a solution and don't tell us not a single word about the details.

There are allegations that Eagle Dynamics and Heatblur had a similar dispute. If true, and I won’t speculate on the veracity of the claims, then Heatblur handled themselves with professionalism and grace.

I fear this dispute has done little but create tribalism within the DCS community and given the trolls and muckrakers a platform to do damage to DCS.
 

 

[Blackeye]

10 minutes ago, Hammer1-1 said:

yes it would be sad...but to imply that DCS IS the F-15E is just...a bit much.

Nobody did that. Just that it is a very good module that has been pushing the envelope of what is available/possible in DCS.

12 minutes ago, Hammer1-1 said:

How many aircraft HAD the TFR? I can think of 4, and only one of them is currently being made in DCS. Its not that groundbreaking. Let me know when the F-111 or the B-1A/B Early/Modern gets a release date, then we'll talk about TFR. FWIW, I think the Tornado being made currently as TFR as well.

And how many of those are available in DCS? None, that's why it is the F-15E that had it first - just like the F/A-18 with its ground radar. And then F-15E the improved that ground radar quite a bit. Is it groundbreaking? That's probably down to personal opinion but it still has first TFR and the best ground radar implementation we currently have.

Are we going to see new modules expanding what is possible in DCS? I sure hope so. But for now the F-15E is a great module with top of the line features (also some missing) and a decent EA release.

 

 

 

[Lord_Pyro]

58 minutes ago, Tom Kazansky said:

My hopes are different.

I hope both parties find a solution and don't tell us not a single word about the details.

People dont like that but it's always a good choice to give out as little information as possible to the public. Makes ruling them easier

[Njinsa]

13 minutes ago, Blackeye said:

Nobody did that. Just that it is a very good module that has been pushing the envelope of what is available/possible in DCS.

And how many of those are available in DCS? None, that's why it is the F-15E that had it first - just like the F/A-18 with its ground radar. And then F-15E the improved that ground radar quite a bit. Is it groundbreaking? That's probably down to personal opinion but it still has first TFR and the best ground radar implementation we currently have.

Are we going to see new modules expanding what is possible in DCS? I sure hope so. But for now the F-15E is a great module with top of the line features (also some missing) and a decent EA release.

 

 

 

If dispute is resolved in a way that F-15E development resume at full throttle, I hereby plea RB to reconsider the most wanted request of 'BFM skill issued' players.

CFTs off

It would also be DCS's 1st and also it would give peace amongst us who actually need CFTs to finish the job.

[Hammer1-1]

19 minutes ago, Blackeye said:

 

And how many of those are available in DCS? None, that's why it is the F-15E that had it first - just like the F/A-18 with its ground radar. And then F-15E the improved that ground radar quite a bit. Is it groundbreaking? That's probably down to personal opinion but it still has first TFR and the best ground radar implementation we currently have.

Im not disagreeing with you. As Ive mentioned, only 4 aircraft I know of have the TFR, and as Ive mentioned, only 1 is in DCS. As Ive mentioned, wait until the Tornado comes. Would be great if we had a B-1 and its little brother the F-111, but thats me smoking the good stuff.

Edited June 26, 2024 by Hammer1-1

[bfr]

8 hours ago, draconus said:

So, some smart user already came up with a fix/workaround to a radar problem without changing a date for entire system.

https://github.com/slasher84/budgie/releases

How the work is going, ED?

 

Hmmm, no source code provided and it sounds like its basically fudging the system time but at a highly localised level.  Nice that someone has made the effort but i'll pass for now I think.

[jojo]

9 hours ago, Oban said:

Have you tried/tested it ?

Works for me, I only tried in solo.
But other people confirmed that it works on MP servers, even with pilot + WSO and integrity check.

[afnav130]

5 hours ago, Horns said:

500G?! Are you sure they aren't using the F-15C flight model? 

Edit: Joke, not criticism, easy typo to make, I'm sure I've made it plenty

 

It means 500 kts Ground Speed. 

[maxTRX]

3 hours ago, Lord_Pyro said:

People dont like that but it's always a good choice to give out as little information as possible to the public. Makes ruling them easier

Exactly... then, as soon as a bit or two of 'info' pops up, the dots from all sources SHALL be connected in any possible pattern, including random   then... damage control kicks in. Not an easy task after the connected dots (mostly negative) need to be broken up and reconnected or discarded.

[Notso]

15 hours ago, Hammer1-1 said:

as if that was the pinnacle of DCS as a whole? there was no a2g radar until the Hornet came out. there was no multi crew until the Tomcat came out...a lot of this stuff needed to be done before the TFR could even be considered, I still dont know why theres no Jester or Petrovich alternative for the F-15E which is really the bane of most of us offline SP guys existence who want to fly the thing. lets climb off that horse please?

Why in the world do you need a Jester or George to fly the F-15E in SP?  Or even MP.  Its a perfectly capable jet to fly solo.  Is it BETTER with a human WSO - 10,000%,  But I honestly think a jester style GUI would make it more cumbersome to fly, not less.  

[Notso]

11 hours ago, BIGNEWY said:

You have given your feedback here in these threads a lot, often with claims we can not answer due to the nature of the dispute, repeating your version or narrative here does not help the case, please just take a break and remember our 1.10 rule. 

thank you 

No worries.  I'm just countering obvious misunderstandings or outright false information.  I get this is an ED run forum, but I don't think it's right that only one "narrative" is allowed to be pushed here.  None of the RB folks, including myself, have ever shutdown people coming on their discord saying everything RB has done is wrong.  They get their say and then the other side of the story is also allowed to be discussed.  If alternate POVs are not allowed, then maybe its time to lock this thread as nothing new or useful is really being said on either side.

[Notso]

4 hours ago, Wizard_03 said:

Someone is for sure lying to the community, statements made by razbam devs on discord contradict ED's official narrative. They both cannot be true which means we are being deliberately lied too, by people who either don't know the whole story and are talking just to stir the pot or by people who do know the whole story but want to spin it. 

 

So my hope is that when this situation is all over we as the community will hold the party that lied to us accountable. I certainly will. REGARDLESS of the F-15Es fate.

 

Good!  As you should.

[NineLine]

10 minutes ago, Notso said:

No worries.  I'm just countering obvious misunderstandings or outright false information.  I get this is an ED run forum, but I don't think it's right that only one "narrative" is allowed to be pushed here.  None of the RB folks, including myself, have ever shutdown people coming on their discord saying everything RB has done is wrong.  They get their say and then the other side of the story is also allowed to be discussed.  If alternate POVs are not allowed, then maybe its time to lock this thread as nothing new or useful is really being said on either side.

People are all sharing their opinions, including you, but everyone will get a nudge if they keep repeating the same things over and over in the hopes they will stick. I do not see anyone shutting down narratives but only replying with their opinions, as I said above. If RB Management wants to make a statement we will include it in the original post, otherwise, this is all opinion from all here. 

[freehand]

I come here for updates not the in's and outs of she said he said.

[NineLine]

1 minute ago, freehand said:

I come here for updates not the in's and outs of she said he said.

I'll most likely flush this thread again soon. 

[corvey]

3 hours ago, Notso said:

Why in the world do you need a Jester or George to fly the F-15E in SP?  Or even MP.  Its a perfectly capable jet to fly solo.  Is it BETTER with a human WSO - 10,000%,  But I honestly think a jester style GUI would make it more cumbersome to fly, not less.  

I agree again, Notso. I personally never liked Jester in my F14, it kind of ruined it for me, that and I couldn't switch back into the the back seat multiplayer really turned me off the module, though they fixed the seating position since then.  Number one reason I don't want the Phantom.  The F15-E gave me peace of mind knowing I could control my Cadillac in sky the way I wanted to fly. The AI CO-pilot can be omitted entirely for all I care and at the very least optionally DISABLED.  The Sniper Pod is the highest priority on the list for me anyway.

And hey, Notso, I Never got around to saying thanks for the Youtube tutorial videos.  Thanks man, they've been helpful and I appreciate it.

Edited June 26, 2024 by corvey