waiting for resolution RAZBAM Situation Post Archive (will be deleted)

[HWasp]

On 6/30/2024 at 1:45 AM, Ignition said:

ED is not losing money for refunds since they don't refund the money but store credit. They just have money paid beforehand so ED has a lot of credit now.

Simple example: I have x amount money with "for the MiG-29" written on it at all times. (No, not literally). If I end up refunding the SE, then that x amount never arrives to ED because I'll just use points instead. That's a loss.

[nessuno0505]

4 ore fa, NineLine ha scritto:

the radar, was not an issue within our control in that it was not an update that caused the issue. It was something coded into the radar to end at a certain time

Are you saying RB deliberately put a time bomb in their code? Or am I misinterpreting?

[draconus]

3 minutes ago, nessuno0505 said:

Are you saying RB deliberately put a time bomb in their code?

Yes, they did. Explained by the coder himself:

[Pipe]

5 hours ago, NineLine said:

The F-15E, and specifically the radar, was not an issue within our control in that it was not an update that caused the issue. It was something coded into the radar to end at a certain time, most of you have seen the comments from the dev responsible for this. This also will be fixed, one way or another, but due to the complexity of the current issues proper steps need to be carefully taken.

 

So can we safely assume no official fix of the radar is coming anytime soon?

Then I will go ahead and install the Budgie mod, thank you jamie_c

 

[Avimimus]

1 hour ago, draconus said:

Yes, they did. Explained by the coder himself:

Well, technically the coder did. It looks like it might have been the coder doing it to ensure contract fulfilment by RB (rather than RB doing it to ED). While, speculation on this is a bit inappropriate, I think - it is good to at least remember that there is a three way (or four way) relationship between parties:

Coders/Artists <-> Razbam team <-> Razbam ownership <-> Eagle Dynamics

(Not including any investors or licensors - those would add additional complexity).

[plott1964]

This is -- The (Complete) Speculation Thread.....

[Slippa]

If not a little presumptive. 

[Czar66]

5 hours ago, Koziolek said:

He only has to give the same answer over and over again to people asking the same questions over and over again. So it's not so bad

Have you been in a position where every single one of your words are trialed constantly to be interpreted in the worst possible way against you?

The thing I dislike most is the sheer colossal apathy towards others that roams such a niche entertainment genre forums. Really, we are very very few to keep this running. Keep that in mind.

[Mobius_11804]

Hey just out of Curiosity. Could somebody pls try to explain, how RAZBAM could breach ED's legally protected IP Rights?

By slapping an ED Logo onto a Model for another Sim?

Bc do the legal Rights to these Aircraft not belong to the Manufacturer of said Aircraft?

If so, do you have to pay License Fees to the Manufacturer, if you want to create a Module?

[draconus]

1 hour ago, Czar66 said:

Have you been in a position where every single one of your words are trialed constantly to be interpreted in the worst possible way against you?

Ever been married?

[Pipe]

1 hour ago, Czar66 said:

Have you been in a position where every single one of your words are trialed constantly to be interpreted in the worst possible way against you?

The thing I dislike most is the sheer colossal apathy towards others that roams such a niche entertainment genre forums. Really, we are very very few to keep this running. Keep that in mind.

fixed it for you..

The thing I dislike most is the sheer colossal apathy of ED towards others that roams such a niche entertainment genre forums. Really, we are very very few to keep this running. Keep that in mind.

 

[SlipHavoc]

33 minutes ago, draconus said:

Ever been married?

I've always been very puzzled as to why anyone would marry a person like that, or stay married once they realized that was going on.

[apolloace]

Wild Theory : Maybe the advance nature of the F15E A-G Radar spooked everyone and acted as a catalyst which started this mess.

Sorry moderators, just my theory.

 

[NineLine]

5 hours ago, Pipe said:

So can we safely assume no official fix of the radar is coming anytime soon?

Then I will go ahead and install the Budgie mod, thank you jamie_c

 

No, I mean it has to be fixed, and it will be just who will do it at the moment. As I said above the communication on such issues is now more complex. 

1 hour ago, apolloace said:

Wild Theory : Maybe the advance nature of the F15E A-G Radar spooked everyone and acted as a catalyst which started this mess.

Sorry moderators, just my theory.

 

I don't even know what that means but has nothing to do with anything going on here.

[Rifter]

10 hours ago, NineLine said:

For example we know what causes issues with updates and modules, we will make sure to make adjustments to our updates to not break the older modules if they remain unsupported.

Wait…could the same strategy be applied to all older (feature complete) modules? Would save a lot of time for bugfixes and would catapult customer satisfaction into orbit.

[Blazkovitch]

2 hours ago, Mobius_11804 said:

Hey just out of Curiosity. Could somebody pls try to explain, how RAZBAM could breach ED's legally protected IP Rights?

By slapping an ED Logo onto a Model for another Sim?

Bc do the legal Rights to these Aircraft not belong to the Manufacturer of said Aircraft?

If so, do you have to pay License Fees to the Manufacturer, if you want to create a Module?

By using software created by ED without obtaining a proper license.

[NineLine]

29 minutes ago, Rifter said:

Wait…could the same strategy be applied to all older (feature complete) modules? Would save a lot of time for bugfixes and would catapult customer satisfaction into orbit.

It adds extra work to our team, so 3rd Parties that are active it still makes more sense for them to continue to update their modules for major updates.

 

6 hours ago, nessuno0505 said:

Are you saying RB deliberately put a time bomb in their code? Or am I misinterpreting?

As we understand it, it was put in by an individual dev based on working with RAZBAM and was not intended to be part of the issues with this current situation. Meaning it was not intentional to inflame the current issues even if it now has. 

[Pipe]

42 minutes ago, NineLine said:

No, I mean it has to be fixed, and it will be just who will do it at the moment. As I said above the communication on such issues is now more complex. 

I don't even know what that means but has nothing to do with anything going on here.

Thanks for the quick reply, would you say this wont be addressed in the coming update then?

Tia

[NineLine]

Just now, Pipe said:

Thanks for the quick reply, would you say this wont be addressed in the coming update then?

Tia

I would wait for the changelog to see. I am hopeful.

[afnav130]

2 hours ago, apolloace said:

Wild Theory : Maybe the advance nature of the F15E A-G Radar spooked everyone and acted as a catalyst which started this mess.

Sorry moderators, just my theory.

 

I don't think the SE "spooked" anyone what I DO think it was a wakeup call to other devs who were basically sleep walking in a lot of ways. The 16 iirc was all of sudden getting INU drift updates and radar updates etc etc. Seemed to come pretty hot and heavy to me last least. So yeah, the 15E imo did a lot of good just being released.

[juanar10]

12 hours ago, NineLine said:

Our goal remains to work things out with RAZBAM, this has to be the focus right now, that doesn't mean we are not looking at all scenarios that might happen.

For example we know what causes issues with updates and modules, we will make sure to make adjustments to our updates to not break the older modules if they remain unsupported. This is why we are not offering refunds on the older modules. One way or another we plan for those to remain working into the future.

The F-15E, and specifically the radar, was not an issue within our control in that it was not an update that caused the issue. It was something coded into the radar to end at a certain time, most of you have seen the comments from the dev responsible for this. This also will be fixed, one way or another, but due to the complexity of the current issues proper steps need to be carefully taken.

Because the F-15E is EA and far from complete, we offered a store credit, which is not our normal refund policy but due to the large demand for something like this we decided this was the right move right now. We still ask people to hang on and hope for the best for the F-15E. We still hope this will work out and RB will continue to develop the best F-15E in any sim anywhere.

Hi! I have a couple of questions:

1. Do you have a deadline for this issue to be fixed before taking measures? For example: "if we don't solve this dispute before the end of the year we are going to..."
2. If (1) is true, how would you end the phrase?
3. Do you conceive a world in which users that payed money for the F-15E will keep a non-finished product? Let's say the dispute has no solution, is it ok for you to have this half-finished product be sold and users that bought it being able to use it, but not finished?

Thanks!

[Ignition]

11 hours ago, HWasp said:

Simple example: I have x amount money with "for the MiG-29" written on it at all times. (No, not literally). If I end up refunding the SE, then that x amount never arrives to ED because I'll just use points instead. That's a loss.

I understand but It's not a loss, as I've said it they will earn less but they don't lose money. It's not like they need to buy raw materials to create a new product to sell. It's just an exchange of service. Razbam in the other hand will lose 100% since they invested the money and resources to create the product.

Additionally, the pros of this actions from ED supurases the cons, they wouldn't do it if they weren't!

[Horns]

I kinda fear we're giving that particular subreddit oxygen here. I take it ED accept that the report of how SE the radar bug originated is genuine?

Edited July 1, 2024 by Horns
Changed "are satisfied" to "accept"

[NineLine]

31 minutes ago, Horns said:

I kinda fear we're giving that particular subreddit oxygen here. I take it ED accept that the report of how SE the radar bug originated is genuine?

 

We know what happened and what caused it, we can only take words from the parties involved on the intent and at the end of the day intent doesn't matter we just need to get the radar working again, period. 

[Horns]

1 minute ago, NineLine said:

We know what happened and what caused it, we can only take words from the parties involved on the intent and at the end of the day intent doesn't matter we just need to get the radar working again, period. 

I understand, thanks for addressing it