waiting for resolution RAZBAM Situation Post Archive (will be deleted)

[Ignition]

6 hours ago, MAXsenna said:

Since it went public you mean.

Sent from my SM-A536B using Tapatalk
 

Yes, it's 11 months since the last Razbam update.

[Oban]

On 1/8/2025 at 2:42 AM, StarLiner said:

There are small bugs that have popped up on a couple and the ED website is still advertising features on some of them that currently don't work in any form.

Which one(s) don't work as advertised? I have the F15E and AV8B and both work, as per the advertisment, I do also seem to recall that RB stated before the dispute that the Av8B was module complete... which we know isn't an accurate statement..

 

Edited January 9 by Oban

[some1]

29 minutes ago, Oban said:

Which one(s) don't work as advertised? I have the F15E and AV8B and both work, as per the advertisment, I do also seem to recall that RB stated before the dispute that the Av8B was module complete... which we know isn't an accurate statement..

 

DCS bomb fusing update from ED broke some of the bombs in Razbam modules. A2A gun sight in the Eagle still doesn't work. Not counting other issues, plenty of them in the Eagle bug section.

Also you remember wrong about what Razbam said regarding AV8B before this whole thing blew up.

 

[Oban]

56 minutes ago, some1 said:

DCS bomb fusing update from ED broke some of the bombs in Razbam modules. A2A gun sight in the Eagle still doesn't work. Not counting other issues, plenty of them in the Eagle bug section.

Also you remember wrong about what Razbam said regarding AV8B before this whole thing blew up.

 

Yeah, perhaps it was stated that it was out of early access, I do love the AV8B.. it's a great jet to thrash around anywhere low level.

[StarLiner]

1 hour ago, Oban said:

Which one(s) don't work as advertised? I have the F15E and AV8B and both work, as per the advertisment, I do also seem to recall that RB stated before the dispute that the Av8B was module complete... which we know isn't an accurate statement..

 

The single player content on both the Farmer apparently the Mirage don't work.

 

The Farmer specifically is a little unique in DCS I think. It has a bullet point on the module, advertising that it comes with a fully featured campaign. This campaign has not worked for the majority of the life of the module and it's original creator has stated, due to lack of payment, it will not be updated. 

There's lots of campaigns that don't work right. But even with those there's a veneer of "They will be updated one day" that ED would probably give you. The Farmer is unique in having an advertised feature that does not work and has an official statement essentially stating it will not ever work. 

 

I know it's a small thing but it's just annoying for those of us who bought something for content that didn't work at the time and is still being advertised as working. 

Edited January 9 by StarLiner

[Horns]

3 hours ago, Oban said:

Yeah, perhaps it was stated that it was out of early access, I do love the AV8B.. it's a great jet to thrash around anywhere low level.

They did indeed move it out of early access. More than four years after reaching that point, I believe it is supposedly in 'product sustainment'. If RB have stated that phase is also complete I hope someone will correct me.

EDIT: I see how someone could have taken that to mean 'feature complete'. On a personal note, I kinda wish that FAQ (as included in Some1's post) had been posted by RB in the ED Forum too.

Edited January 9 by Horns
Added comment re FAQ

[afnav130]

Newsletter summing up 2024 was pretty cool. Somehow missed that "started a legal battle that didn't need to happen, but the genie was out of the bottle". 

Interesting.

[Oban]

5 hours ago, afnav130 said:

Newsletter summing up 2024 was pretty cool. Somehow missed that "started a legal battle that didn't need to happen, but the genie was out of the bottle". 

Interesting.

No less interesting than the alleged breach of contract by a 3rd party, where their 3rd party spat their dummies out in an attempt to divide the user base ( which succeeded to a degree) and I'm pretty sure that IF Razbam had a good case in their favour, then a swift legal decision would have been made in their favour, forcing ED to meet their contractual obligations with regards to remuneration and it wouldn't have dragged on for this length of time, and the whole nasty episode put to bed as a lesson learned.

But it hasn't, and it's unlikley to reach a resolution within the 1st quarter of 2025. ... which to me indicates this is far from being a simple legal battle "that didn't need to happen "

Both Nick Grey and Ron Zambrano need to put their over inflated egos aside, and reconcile, and fix this ungodly mess.

[Nightdare]

2 hours ago, Oban said:

Both Nick Grey and Ron Zambrano need to put their over inflated egos aside, and reconcile, and fix this ungodly mess.

Only that last part is of relevance, whether this needs to happen due to a court order or not is a mere detail in how it gets to pass

[HWasp]

15 hours ago, Oban said:

No less interesting than the alleged breach of contract by a 3rd party, where their 3rd party spat their dummies out in an attempt to divide the user base ( which succeeded to a degree) and I'm pretty sure that IF Razbam had a good case in their favour, then a swift legal decision would have been made in their favour, forcing ED to meet their contractual obligations with regards to remuneration and it wouldn't have dragged on for this length of time, and the whole nasty episode put to bed as a lesson learned.

But it hasn't, and it's unlikley to reach a resolution within the 1st quarter of 2025. ... which to me indicates this is far from being a simple legal battle "that didn't need to happen "

Both Nick Grey and Ron Zambrano need to put their over inflated egos aside, and reconcile, and fix this ungodly mess.

If ED had a good case in their favour, then a swift (?) legal decision could have been made in their favour, forcing RB to pay for damages and presenting a clear case for the public if things got out...

This goes both ways.

[StarLiner]

Judgement will come Taylor Swiftly. ED has my ultimatum: A payment towards Razbam is the only way I will purchase an Strike Eagle.

 

Tik Tok goes the clock, ED. The party don't stop oh. 

[rob10]

31 minutes ago, StarLiner said:

Judgement will come Taylor Swiftly. ED has my ultimatum: A payment towards Razbam is the only way I will purchase an Strike Eagle.

Tik Tok goes the clock, ED. The party don't stop oh. 

And clearly ED doesn't feel the loss of your purchase of the Strike Eagle outweighs the cost to them if they don't protect their IP currently.  Maybe over time that calculation will change, but currently not.

[Beirut]

2 hours ago, StarLiner said:

Judgement will come Taylor Swiftly. ED has my ultimatum: A payment towards Razbam is the only way I will purchase an Strike Eagle.

 

Tik Tok goes the clock, ED. The party don't stop oh. 

 

Ummmm... okay. 

 

Of course we both know I'll be flying my Strike Eagle tonight. 

[MustangSally]

2 hours ago, StarLiner said:

Judgement will come Taylor Swiftly. ED has my ultimatum: A payment towards Razbam is the only way I will purchase an Strike Eagle.

 

Tik Tok goes the clock, ED. The party don't stop oh. 

Don't think that ED really gives a toss what you think!

[NineLine]

Just about time to flush this thread to the archive again...

[Mike Force Team]

If one were to a business case study on managing customers experiences in a popular gaming platform with a popular 3rd party vendor during a payment dispute, then we have plenty of content to read in the forum.

ED and RZ said they are working together towards a resolution. Currently, there has been no new information in at least nine months from the official sources.

 

 

[Oban]

1 hour ago, Mike Force Team said:

If one were to a business case study on managing customers experiences in a popular gaming platform with a popular 3rd party vendor during a payment dispute, then we have plenty of content to read in the forum.

ED and RZ said they are working together towards a resolution. Currently, there has been no new information in at least nine months from the official sources.

 

 

And neither source has gone public to say there's been an irretrievable breakdown where neither party can agree on a future, and that all outstanding contracts and future contracts will be terminated.

Forget the crap being posted on Reddit, unless there's something official from either CEO, then it's nothing more than speculation and hearsay.

It's not going to satisfy either camp or the consumer the longer it goes on, but these type of disputes can take a LOT longer than 9 months, I suspect this will be no different.

[Mike Force Team]

@Oban I agree. This dispute will likely drag on for many, many months.  The lack of communication from ED or RZ do seem suggest they will likely use the legal system for resolution. 

[PD919]

12 hours ago, HWasp said:

If ED had a good case in their favour, then a swift (?) legal decision could have been made in their favour, forcing RB to pay for damages and presenting a clear case for the public if things got out...

This goes both ways.

Not exactly, judging by how long modules take to develop I doubt that ED has very strict time requirements in the contract.  I think every module has come later than expected.  On the flip side, nonpayment probably much more detailed.  It doesn't seem RB filed a lawsuit to collect the money.  The whole thing stinks.  

[SkateZilla]

21 hours ago, HWasp said:

If ED had a good case in their favour, then a swift (?) legal decision could have been made in their favour, forcing RB to pay for damages and presenting a clear case for the public if things got out...

This goes both ways.

The loophole in your assumption is if that the "Swift Decision" you mention is the best one for all parties involved, including RB and Customers.

You can't really judge a company's case by their actions, because their actions also include other factors outside of their case standing.

i.e.:
If ED was to have taken "Swift Action", that would have effectively terminated the Agreement between ED and RB and all future work on those modules,
*(Queue Taylor Swift : We are never ever, getting back together")*

That's the opposite of what anyone wants. 

Edited January 12 by SkateZilla

[afnav130]

On 1/10/2025 at 5:22 PM, Oban said:

No less interesting than the alleged breach of contract by a 3rd party, where their 3rd party spat their dummies out in an attempt to divide the user base ( which succeeded to a degree) and I'm pretty sure that IF Razbam had a good case in their favour, then a swift legal decision would have been made in their favour, forcing ED to meet their contractual obligations with regards to remuneration and it wouldn't have dragged on for this length of time, and the whole nasty episode put to bed as a lesson learned.

But it hasn't, and it's unlikley to reach a resolution within the 1st quarter of 2025. ... which to me indicates this is far from being a simple legal battle "that didn't need to happen "

Both Nick Grey and Ron Zambrano need to put their over inflated egos aside, and reconcile, and fix this ungodly mess.

That last part I can agree wholly with.

[MarkP]

And here am i, missing the 15E so much that i serious consider to rebuy it. I think it was quite alright it its state when i refunded it. I can live with how it is.

[afnav130]

Something must have happened. Per RB discord from Prowler aka Ron.

"@everyone
ED cannot ensure the operational status of our aircraft without our involvement and a clear resolution. Claims suggesting otherwise may mislead customers into thinking full maintenance can be achieved independently, contrary to statements made by their community manager. This clarification is being issued to address the widespread speculation and misinformation circulating online."

[AndyJWest]

3 minutes ago, afnav130 said:

Something must have happened. Per RB discord from Prowler aka Ron.

"@everyone
ED cannot ensure the operational status of our aircraft without our involvement and a clear resolution. Claims suggesting otherwise may mislead customers into thinking full maintenance can be achieved independently, contrary to statements made by their community manager. This clarification is being issued to address the widespread speculation and misinformation circulating online."

Nothing new there. RB have already stated that ED don't have the source code. ED have not contradicted this statement. Without source code, 'full maintenance' clearly isn't possible. At best, all ED can do is try to ensure that DCS world updates don't break existing functionality - which will get harder and harder to achieve as code diverges more and more from its state when RB ceased updating. 

[Oban]

According to a prominent YouTuber, who claimed to have heard it from the horses mouth, RB and ED will cease their mutual contract(s) ... there's 2 horses, Nick Grey and Ron Zambrano, anyone out of that group has no official capacity. Certainly no 3rd party RB devs have any official capacity.

I'm dissapointed that he would have stated that, and then went on to back pedal.

The clown show continues to roll through town.

 

21 minutes ago, afnav130 said:

Something must have happened. Per RB discord from Prowler aka Ron.

"@everyone
ED cannot ensure the operational status of our aircraft without our involvement and a clear resolution. Claims suggesting otherwise may mislead customers into thinking full maintenance can be achieved independently, contrary to statements made by their community manager. This clarification is being issued to address the widespread speculation and misinformation circulating online."

How much speculation and misinformation is being spread by HIS 3rd party developers?, I don't think any ED employee has leaked confidential documents, contracts, and conversations. 

I'm guessing he's addressing the statement that Kate made late last year, that ED would do their best to keep the F15E alive.

ED doesn't have the source code, and RB doesn't have the SDK.. so nobody is going to be doing anything, anytime soon.