waiting for resolution RAZBAM Situation Post Archive (will be deleted)

[lee1hy]

LOL 
pls lock this uessless thread 

[LordOrion]

On 2/4/2025 at 8:30 PM, PLUTON said:

Personally I think that the dispute between ED and RZ should not concern us unless we lose the modules.

Well, if RZ had continued to work normally on his modules while trying to find an agreement with ED you would be right. 

Instead it's almost a year since we received updates and fixes, so this definitely concerns us.

4 hours ago, rcjonessnp175 said:

 

 

 

 

A glimpse of hope perhaps? A dim light far away in the darkness of this tunnel of sadness?
Or maybe just an attempt to push customers to put pressure on ED?
We'll see...

Edited February 12 by LordOrion

[Nightdare]

5 hours ago, rcjonessnp175 said:

 

 

 

I'm not quite sure what to think of this

Now, I'm sure there are people that wouldn't mind a refresh of the Mirage

...but that's not the most pressing problem at hand

To quote Mad Dog 762:

5 hours ago, Mad Dog 762 said:

The F-15E, which is nowhere near complete.  It needs several more years of work, and that work is not happening, even if this dispute is eventually resolved it has put the Strike Eagle at least a year behind where it should be in development

And some of the current RB modules still have bugs that could use fixing

If they have 6-12 months of spare time, I'd suggest those things instead of presenting a shiny new puppy to get people behind you

 

Edited February 13 by Nightdare

[Beirut]

2 hours ago, lee1hy said:

LOL 
pls lock this uessless thread 

 

You mean the "useless thread" you have been reading and participating in?

 

If you can read it and participate in it, others should be allowed to do the same.

[MiG21bisFishbedL]

8 hours ago, rcjonessnp175 said:

 

 

 

 

That'd be more compelling if they had a better track record of delivering goodies. Like the MiG-19S.

[Mizzy]

15 hours ago, LordOrion said:

Well, if RZ had continued to work normally on his modules while trying to find an agreement with ED you would be right. 

Instead it's almost a year since we received updates and fixes, so this definitely concerns us.

A glimpse of hope perhaps? A dim light far away in the darkness of this tunnel of sadness?
Or maybe just an attempt to push customers to put pressure on ED?
We'll see...

Back to the false flag issue that RB have been successfully peddling with his die hard minority followers, that being one of 'not being paid'. Sounds like a threat that if ED doesn't play ball (the false flag issue of payment), he's (M2M) going to take his bat and ball home. Sorry, but I find his post pathetic.

Mizzy

[Wizard_03]

How about they hand over source codes and leave DCS to people who are committed to giving users what they paid for instead of bring us into YOUR contract disputes with YOUR employer. 

We are DCS. The users are DCS, not razbam and not even ED. 

Edited February 13 by Wizard_03

[Father Cool]

5 hours ago, Mizzy said:

Back to the false flag issue that RB have been successfully peddling with his die hard minority followers, that being one of 'not being paid'. Sounds like a threat that if ED doesn't play ball (the false flag issue of payment), he's (M2M) going to take his bat and ball home. Sorry, but I find his post pathetic.

Mizzy

I'm not a fan boy of anyone and I don't know what truth there is in the 'he said she said' of whether RB have been paid or not (I suspect not or this whole thing wouldn't be an issue in the first place), but as a business owner if I had supplied a product and wasn't paid for it then I certainly wouldn't be continuing the maintenance of the that product while the courts decide on whether I deserve my money or not. You can't expect RB (or anyone working for them such as M2M) to either. Hardly taking your bat and ball home is it.

[draconus]

8 minutes ago, Father Cool said:

I'm not a fan boy of anyone...

 

9 minutes ago, Father Cool said:

...but as a business owner if I had supplied a product and wasn't paid for it then I certainly wouldn't be continuing the maintenance of the that product while the courts decide on whether I deserve my money or not.

Yet you forgot to notice that if the contractor steals your IP you wouldn't pay him either, or would you?

[Father Cool]

1 minute ago, draconus said:

 

Yet you forgot to notice that if the contractor steals your IP you wouldn't pay him either, or would you?

No I don't forget that at all, however, that still doesn't then mean that the contractor then has to work on for free from then on out. The comment stated that it was RB taking their ball home by not continuing development and updates to their modules which despite the IP issue cannot be expected to carry on without payment regardless.

[Mizzy]

11 minutes ago, Father Cool said:

No I don't forget that at all, however, that still doesn't then mean that the contractor then has to work on for free from then on out. The comment stated that it was RB taking their ball home by not continuing development and updates to their modules which despite the IP issue cannot be expected to carry on without payment regardless.

I didn't say that at all, read my post again, it clearly states the non payment dispute is a false flag from what we know so far. The real dispute is about IP and non payment is a result of IP infringement. We have gone over this so many times, that's why I said RB have been successful in detracting from IP infringement to one of non payment. You have totally misunderstood my post and not to be rude, but misunderstand the dispute. I was referring to M2M, not RB btw.

Zambrano has used this tactic time and time again with 'this is what we could have brought to DCS if it wasn't for non payment' clap trap nonsense. Zambrano has promised a lot of things that don't materialise and it has all been said in previous posts. Let us not forget M2Ms disgraceful dialog in this dispute against ED, he's assuming ED would even allow them back and that's a big assumption, anyway, he's talking hot air nonsense in my opinion.

I have just been let off being moderated, so I'm not saying any more than above.

Mizzy

[Father Cool]

26 minutes ago, Mizzy said:

I didn't say that at all, read my post again, it clearly states the non payment dispute is a false flag from what we know so far. The real dispute is about IP and non payment is a result of IP infringement. We have gone over this so many times, that's why I said RB have been successful in detracting from IP infringement to one of non payment. You have totally misunderstood my post and not to be rude, but misunderstand the dispute. I was referring to M2M, not RB btw.

Zambrano has used this tactic time and time again with 'this is what we could have brought to DCS if it wasn't for non payment' clap trap nonsense. Zambrano has promised a lot of things that don't materialise and it has all been said in previous posts. Let us not forget M2Ms disgraceful dialog in this dispute against ED, he's assuming ED would even allow them back and that's a big assumption, anyway, he's talking hot air nonsense in my opinion.

I have just been let off being moderated, so I'm not saying any more than above.

Mizzy

With respect I don't misunderstand the dispute. It sucks for us from both perspectives. I just interpreted your comments as to imply that RB and more specifically M2M should crack on and carry on working despite it with your 'threat tactics' and 'take his bat and ball home' comment that's all and that that isn't a fair expectation from people who aren't being paid, regardless of the background situation. Sorry for any confusion there.

[Dr_Pavelheer]

@Mizzy Please stop spreading misinformation, ED SA and Mission Systems SA (formerly ED Mission Systems) are completely unrelated companies, alleged IP dispute between RB and MS is therefore completely irrelevant to this discussion

[Nightdare]

30 minutes ago, Dr_Pavelheer said:

@Mizzy Please stop spreading misinformation, ED SA and Mission Systems SA (formerly ED Mission Systems) are completely unrelated companies, alleged IP dispute between RB and MS is therefore completely irrelevant to this discussion

 

Before you call something "misinformation" please be aware that IP/license constructions can be a bit more complicated than you present them

 

Different companies can share IP between each other

Especially(/easier) when owned by the same entity

This, for example, is how Charvel was (finally) able to use the Fender Stratocaster headstock again

 

If I own 2 companies and have 1 subcontractor supplying to both, and this subcontractor steps out of line with one of my companies,... guess what I'll do

 

 

[Mizzy]

1 hour ago, Dr_Pavelheer said:

@Mizzy Please stop spreading misinformation, ED SA and Mission Systems SA (formerly ED Mission Systems) are completely unrelated companies, alleged IP dispute between RB and MS is therefore completely irrelevant to this discussion

Read the first post please. The misinformation has come from Zambrano about the 'real' issue of this dispute. You are spreading misinformation !!

Mizzy

2 hours ago, Father Cool said:

With respect I don't misunderstand the dispute. It sucks for us from both perspectives. I just interpreted your comments as to imply that RB and more specifically M2M should crack on and carry on working despite it with your 'threat tactics' and 'take his bat and ball home' comment that's all and that that isn't a fair expectation from people who aren't being paid, regardless of the background situation. Sorry for any confusion there.

Misunderstanding tends to be in the eye of the beholder, can we leave it at that !

Mizzy

[Father Cool]

7 minutes ago, Mizzy said:

Read the first post please. The misinformation has come from Zambrano about the 'real' issue of this dispute. You are spreading misinformation !!

Mizzy

Misunderstanding tends to be in the eye of the beholder, can we leave it at that !

Mizzy

Oh wind your neck in. I assumed a misunderstanding but I obviously didn't. 

[NineLine]

Everyone needs to turn it down a couple of notches, please. 

[freehand]

I agree, need to turn it down from number 11.

Lemmy in motorhead used to run at 12 but that's another story 

Edited February 14 by freehand

[felixx75]

And the thread continues to spin around itself. I would have thought that it must be boring to write the same assumptions and accusations over and over again without any official statements. But apparently not...
But at least it makes you (me) laugh to see how people here keep attacking each other for nothing.  

[NineLine]

2 hours ago, Mike Force Team said:

When I see @Mizzy, I know something will be revealed or stated. Content is usually revealed in recycled conversations or circular arguments.  @Mizzy likes to keep this forum post active as well as keep the attention of the forum moderators.  

Mike Force Team

No need to single anyone out, many people have continued to keep this thread going for good or bad. Its ok to come here and vent, but attacking each other will not fix it faster.

 

2 hours ago, Mike Force Team said:

Perhaps sending messages to NG and RZ on their social media accounts might cause both business owners might spur them to settle their disputes.  

I am sure they are both well aware of all customers' feelings on this, I can speak personally that Nick Grey does. I am sure both equally want to get this settled and back to as normal business as is possible as soon as possible. 

[Wostg]

So I understand from this thread that M2M is the actual bad guy here and not to be trusted?

Disappointing to hear about his poor character 

[draconus]

8 hours ago, Dr_Pavelheer said:

@Mizzy Please stop spreading misinformation, ED SA and Mission Systems SA (formerly ED Mission Systems) are completely unrelated companies, alleged IP dispute between RB and MS is therefore completely irrelevant to this discussion

You really need to read the OP. It's officially about ED.

[Hawks5]

12 hours ago, Dr_Pavelheer said:

alleged IP dispute

There are many moving parts to this issue, the IP dispute being one of them, and per the quote above it is still an allegation. I've certainly seen nothing to suggest that this allegation has been proven from a legal standpoint, yet many posters in this thread seem to believe it is gospel.

[Nightdare]

1 hour ago, Hawks5 said:

There are many moving parts to this issue, the IP dispute being one of them, and per the quote above it is still an allegation. I've certainly seen nothing to suggest that this allegation has been proven from a legal standpoint, yet many posters in this thread seem to believe it is gospel.

 

Because it's more plausible than: "Suddenly, without any reason whatsoever, we haven't been paid and are doing nothing about it while being in the right"

[Oban]

1 hour ago, Hawks5 said:

There are many moving parts to this issue, the IP dispute being one of them, and per the quote above it is still an allegation. I've certainly seen nothing to suggest that this allegation has been proven from a legal standpoint, yet many posters in this thread seem to believe it is gospel.

The leaked legal documents would suggest that it's a lot more than alleged, it's the crux of the entire issue between RB and ED.

People need to understand that the corporate world of whom 99% don't have any real knowledge of, is vastly different from the Shangrila world they apparently live in.