The Rookie Thread

[CoBlue]

So I finally after all those years I got the BS now! enjoying it very much so far

A question about the "Ins Autopilot" commands in control set up, which of them are a "cheat", meaning being not realistic for the BS?

 

Like in the UH-1 all "Autopilot" commands are "cheating", since you don't have any AP in the UH-1.

 

Thanx!

[Looney]

The KA50 flies by virtue of its autopilot. It was specifically designed to take the workload off the pilot.

 

Get to know the autopilot channels, learn to work with them instead of fighting them and you'll be on your merry way to become an ace.

 

It's not easy, but once mastered, a key component in your effictiveness, make sure to read the different tutorials which litter this forum and good luck! :)

[Yurgon]

A question about the "Ins Autopilot" commands in control set up, which of them are a "cheat", meaning being not realistic for the BS?

 

None of them.

 

As Looney already implied, the autopilot functions are essential to Ka-50 employment, and all of the functions under "INS Autopilot" are actually part of the Black Shark's autopilot.

 

The only (slight) cheat would be to map them to your HOTAS because in the real aircraft, the buttons and switches are all located on the right panel. :thumbup:

[Yurgon]

Are there any pre-determined values/guides for the countermeasures programs that are specified to the threat expected or is there something else I could refer to ?

 

IIRC user Strongharm posted results of his extensive uv-26 testing. Or Frederf...

 

Yeah, I thought so too, and found it:

 

UV-26 programs -- any suggestions?

 

Specifically post #19 by Frederf in that thread (others may have done equally extensive testing, but that's the one I was sure I'd read before).

 

Note that Black Shark and its environment have undergone quite a few changes so these values may not be accurate anymore, but I'm not aware of up-to-date tests by anyone else.

[Bucic]

Manual has a chart that describes safe altitude/speed combinations for autorotation. Basically if you have enough speed you can make an autorotation landing from low altitude but if you are hovering you need altitude to get enough forward speed for autorotation landing.

A perfect answer!

Edited June 13, 2014 by Bucic

[guitarxe]

I don't suppose there is any way to mute the electric hum from the batteries?

(I mean, other than turning them off :P)

[Wichid]

I don't suppose there is any way to mute the electric hum from the batteries?

(I mean, other than turning them off :P)

 

You can turn down the in cockpit sounds I believe in the options menu so you dont hear the noises so much :thumbup:

[Bucic]

You can turn down the in cockpit sounds I believe in the options menu so you dont hear the noises so much :thumbup:

Either that or you can try to find the corresponding sound file and edit it or delete it.

Edited June 30, 2014 by Bucic

[guitarxe]

Ah, good idea!

For anyone else interested, the sound file is Avionics_AC_400Hz.wav located in

DCS World\Sounds\Effects\Aircrafts\Cockpits

[Trase]

This is probably the most asked noobie question, but, here it goes: Let's say I want to do a level left turn. I try to do it correctly: Roll to the left, then yaw to the left, roll back to level, then yaw back to level. But I'm new, so I mess it up most of the times, and now my chopper is constantly moving diagonally, 1-2 o'clock, no matter what I do, no matter how I correct it with yaw/roll, it always goes to that diagonal flying pattern. Eventually, I do something, and my chopper begins to fly straight on the intended course. It bugs me that I don't know exactly what I did to fix it. Can somebody point me, once and for all, to an article/tutorial/post that explains the exact procedure of turning, and recovering from diagonal flight? I've been flying airplanes for years in sims, but never touched a helicopter until two days ago.

[tsumikae]

I'm not at work right now, just started the day. Tell you what, post a track of your attempt at level-turning the academic way, and I'll see what you're doing wrong. I'll even redo the track for you. Someone will probably do it before me, even.

 

On a sidenote, you must remember that:

 

-yaw and roll inputs should be back to neutral before you reach your desired heading. Otherwise you'll have to compensate the over steering. That usually ends in a not so smooth transition.

 

-Watch your trim inputs closely. Especially regarding the rudders.

[roob]

This is probably the most asked noobie question, but, here it goes: Let's say I want to do a level left turn. I try to do it correctly: Roll to the left, then yaw to the left, roll back to level, then yaw back to level. But I'm new, so I mess it up most of the times, and now my chopper is constantly moving diagonally, 1-2 o'clock, no matter what I do, no matter how I correct it with yaw/roll, it always goes to that diagonal flying pattern. Eventually, I do something, and my chopper begins to fly straight on the intended course. It bugs me that I don't know exactly what I did to fix it. Can somebody point me, once and for all, to an article/tutorial/post that explains the exact procedure of turning, and recovering from diagonal flight? I've been flying airplanes for years in sims, but never touched a helicopter until two days ago.

 

 

Are you using the trim?

 

http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=35444

[Isegrim]

This is probably the most asked noobie question, but, here it goes: Let's say I want to do a level left turn. I try to do it correctly: Roll to the left, then yaw to the left, roll back to level, then yaw back to level. But I'm new, so I mess it up most of the times, and now my chopper is constantly moving diagonally, 1-2 o'clock, no matter what I do, no matter how I correct it with yaw/roll, it always goes to that diagonal flying pattern. Eventually, I do something, and my chopper begins to fly straight on the intended course. It bugs me that I don't know exactly what I did to fix it. Can somebody point me, once and for all, to an article/tutorial/post that explains the exact procedure of turning, and recovering from diagonal flight? I've been flying airplanes for years in sims, but never touched a helicopter until two days ago.

 

post a track file please

[Trase]

Are you using the trim?

 

http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=35444

 

I used trim only in level flight, so I naturally skipped that thread, thinking that it's not a trim issue. I will give it a read, thank you!

 

edit: I read the article, and got some useful info out of it (Like trimming should be done really often), but still, there's no description of how to turn & exit diagonal flight properly. I'm not mashing my stick in anger, I actually managed to get all of my movements to be extremely fluid and stable, but I still would like to learn how actual pilots do it, not by trial and error.

Edited July 23, 2014 by Trase

[tsumikae]

I used trim only in level flight, so I naturally skipped that thread, thinking that it's not a trim issue. I will give it a read, thank you!

 

Ahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha not a trim issue hahahahahahahahahahahaha good one :D

 

In the KA, every issue is a trim issue. The concept of trimming in that chopper is quite different from any other thing that flies. Yes, it would be wise to read about trimming and autopilot in the KA in the first place. Which makes me wonder: are you actually using autopilot channels?

 

As two of us told you, post a track. We will redo it for you and point your problem accurately.

[Trase]

Ahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha not a trim issue hahahahahahahahahahahaha good one :D

 

In the KA, every issue is a trim issue. The concept of trimming in that chopper is quite different from any other thing that flies. Yes, it would be wise to read about trimming and autopilot in the KA in the first place. Which makes me wonder: are you actually using autopilot channels?

 

As two of us told you, post a track. We will redo it for you and point your problem accurately.

 

Yes, I use the autopilot stabilization thing. It's just I'm a total zero in heli flight concepts. Imagine you're teaching a level turn to a guy who just got his first flight sim. I will record a track and post it in a few hours.

[Trase]

Turned out I had some time to do it now. So, here's a track. Trimming after every maneuver really helped with stability, but I wonder if I'm doing something wrong, or is it just lack of practice. Download link: http://puu.sh/anACo/9975464e40.trk

[Flagrum]

Yes, I use the autopilot stabilization thing. It's just I'm a total zero in heli flight concepts. Imagine you're teaching a level turn to a guy who just got his first flight sim. I will record a track and post it in a few hours.

The thing with the trimming is that you basically tell the auto pilot where and how you want to fly. It is not like trimming a conventional aircraft where you set the control surfaces so that the aircrafts attitude is stabilized. In the Blackshark, the trimm/autopilot has a mind of its own - it dynamically(!) excerts some control authority on the flight controls. This is what almost every new Ka-50 pilot had troubles with - to not fight the autopilot, but to understand and anticipate and appreciate what it does for you.

 

Your problem description could indeed hint, that you unknowingly fight the autopilot. The autopilot wants to stabilize the helo in it's previous attitude (i.e. level flight), while you force the helo into a turn.

[Skall]

This is probably the most asked noobie question, but, here it goes: Let's say I want to do a level left turn. I try to do it correctly: Roll to the left, then yaw to the left, roll back to level, then yaw back to level. But I'm new, so I mess it up most of the times, and now my chopper is constantly moving diagonally, 1-2 o'clock, no matter what I do, no matter how I correct it with yaw/roll, it always goes to that diagonal flying pattern. Eventually, I do something, and my chopper begins to fly straight on the intended course. It bugs me that I don't know exactly what I did to fix it. Can somebody point me, once and for all, to an article/tutorial/post that explains the exact procedure of turning, and recovering from diagonal flight? I've been flying airplanes for years in sims, but never touched a helicopter until two days ago.

 

It could be the autopilot trying to get you back on your original course but since it only has 20% authority on control input, it can't deflect all the way back to the right.

 

The biggest issue most new Shark pilots have is understanding the autopilot and trim functionality. It is very different than trim and AP for fixed wing aircraft. You should read this 5 part article http://www.simhq.com/_air13/air_426a.html. It clears up a lot.

[Trase]

Thanks. You have all been extremely helpful, and right about the fact that I didn't realize that the "trim" function is actually "Help me do exactly this until I press you again" button.

[Yurgon]

Turned out I had some time to do it now. So, here's a track. Trimming after every maneuver really helped with stability, but I wonder if I'm doing something wrong, or is it just lack of practice. Download link: http://puu.sh/anACo/9975464e40.trk

 

Great flying technique! You sure you've only been doing this for two days? Because my Ka-50 flying looked a lot worse after just two days. :)

 

In any case, your pattern looked really smooth and well flown. Right after take-off and during the final approach I observed what you called "diagonal flying", and I'm sure that it's indeed you fighting the auto-pilot channels because you weren't trimming enough in these phases of the flight.

 

There's this famous

. You can hear the trim clicking really often. That's how it's done in the real thing. :thumbup:

 

Basically, the "Russian" or "Eastern" doctrine is to trim often, even (especially) during maneuvers. If you learn how to do that, you can have the Ka-50 fly turns and all kinds of maneuvers hands-free, which is quite a great help because there are enough tasks left to do, given its single-seat layout. :)

 

On a side note, your sudden descent (when IAS MAX was beeping) was pretty well flown. Most newbies would have created rotor blade salad in that situation. :D

[Isegrim]

Ahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha not a trim issue hahahahahahahahahahahaha good one :D

 

In the KA, every issue is a trim issue. The concept of trimming in that chopper is quite different from any other thing that flies. Yes, it would be wise to read about trimming and autopilot in the KA in the first place. Which makes me wonder: are you actually using autopilot channels?

 

As two of us told you, post a track. We will redo it for you and point your problem accurately.

 

 

Thats simply wrong. Trim proplems are only a part of the proplems new pilots have with the KA-50.

BTW the shark is flyable without trim too. But its stick forces(IIRC of 5 kg only without trimbutton pressed or FD On) will make your arms muscles tired very soon.

 

 

@ Trase The key is to control the helicopter the whole time. You should never have a lag on that!! There will be no time you can left your hand from stick and collective, exept you have trimmed super ultra exact (and this for sure needs some practise).

 

Ise

Edited July 24, 2014 by Isegrim

[Trase]

Great flying technique! You sure you've only been doing this for two days? Because my Ka-50 flying looked a lot worse after just two days. :)

 

Well, I flew them in GTA games, if that counts :lol:

 

Since I recorded the track, I find it easier to just depress the trimmer before starting a maneuver, and letting go of it when I'm finished, so it doesn't fight my input during it. The pilot in real video only presses it after the maneuver, but he has a real stick, while I don't even have force feedback. I hope I'm not doing this really wrong, since it feels extremely good, and no more diagonal flying.

[Isegrim]

Well, I flew them in GTA games, if that counts :lol:

 

Since I recorded the track, I find it easier to just depress the trimmer before starting a maneuver, and letting go of it when I'm finished, so it doesn't fight my input during it. The pilot in real video only presses it after the maneuver, but he has a real stick, while I don't even have force feedback. I hope I'm not doing this really wrong, since it feels extremely good, and no more diagonal flying.

 

No its absolutely correct like that !!!!!!:thumbup:

[Flagrum]

I hope I'm not doing this really wrong, since it feels extremely good, and no more diagonal flying.

There are basically two "schools" of Ka-50 pilots here. Those who say, trim often and deliberately, especially during maneuvers ("eastern style"; click-trim) and those who prefer to hold the timmer during maneuvers and releasing it after the helo is stabilized in the new attitude ("western style"; hold-trim).

 

And then there are those who believe that the "eastern style" is in fact working differently - more like a mix of both styles: HOLD trim all the time but release it often and deliberately ... like a "negative click"-trim. Which could make quite some sense - you can maneuver freely but if you have to release the trim button, the AP will not try to get the helo in a totally different direction - as the last trimming only occured a few seconds ago (as opposed to an eternity since the begin of the maneuvre)

Afaik the last style only came up not too long ago - after a discussion about the video that was linked earlier in the thread. Some thought they heared not a press-release ..... press-release ... press-release but rather a press ..... release-press .... release-press ...

 

Anyhow, I prefer "western style", but just do what works for you best.