waiting for resolution ED/RAZBAM Situation Info & Discussion

[LordOrion]

4 minutes ago, Aapje said:

So there doesn't seem to be any factual truth to your entire post. It is just one big heap of misinformation.

RB actually damaged end users by stopping development/support for ther modules to blackmail ED.

Factual Truth (deal with that).

2025: The year of the RazScam.

 

[Aapje]

52 minutes ago, LordOrion said:

RB actually damaged end users by stopping development/support for their modules to blackmail ED.

Factual Truth (deal with that).

By leaving out the fact that Razbam stopped development due to ED no longer paying them, you are being extremely misleading. Your conspiracy theory makes no sense at all anyway, since what would Razbam even be able to gain by blackmailing ED? It makes no sense.

Do you really think that trying to deceive people is somehow helping your cause?

And no, just because you write Factual Truth in bold and underlined, does not magically make that true. It just makes you seem like a crazy homeless person that thinks that the key to having their beliefs accepted is by putting it on a very big sign, rather than it actually making any sense.

Edited Sunday at 12:26 AM by Aapje

[LordOrion]

5 minutes ago, Aapje said:

By leaving out the fact that Razbam stopped developed due to ED no longer paying them, you are being extremely misleading. Your conspiracy theory makes no sense at all anyway, since what would Razbam even be able to gain by blackmailing ED? It makes no sense.

Do you really think that trying to deceive people is somehow helping your cause?

And no, just because you write Factual Truth in bold and underlined, does not magically make that true. It just makes you seem like a crazy homeless person that thinks that the key to having their beliefs accepted is by putting it on a very big sign, rather than it actually making any sense.

Oh yes, the old "they can't work for free" excuse: ED is not paying RB, so RB can't works on its own modules. 

Can you explain us why RB is not bankrupted then?

Sorry, no one is believing that b***s***t anymore.

[Aapje]

2 minutes ago, LordOrion said:

Oh yes, the old "they can't work for free" excuse: ED is not paying RB, so RB can't works on its own modules. 

Can you explain us why RB is not bankrupted then?

What logic is this? If you worked for a company and they stopped paying, would you keep working without pay until you lost your house, or would you try to find another job to prevent you from losing your house?

And you ignore that there is supposed to be a settlement, that supposedly says that RB would work on the modules, but for some reason that agreement is no longer being accepted as valid. Yet we do not know all terms of the contract and to what extent each side followed it, so it is impossible to judge it on fact, although clearly, many people think that their bias is as good as facts.

2 minutes ago, LordOrion said:

Sorry, no one is believing that b***s***t anymore.

Pretending that you speak for others is another tick on the bingo card for someone who writes irrational things.

[hotrod525]

We honestly dont know much except rumours, wich we can't verify. 

I'm sad for my F15E, AV8B and M2KC that will eventualy die... there goes 200 U$D... great time. 

 

[Hammer1-1]

3 hours ago, Tango3B said:

You can certainly look for sources like reddit...there is much to be found over there. But take everything you read and/or see over there with a grain of salt...

I avoid reddit like the cesspool that it is. If what he said is true though, Id like to know the details if possible.

59 minutes ago, Aapje said:

By leaving out the fact that Razbam stopped development due to ED no longer paying them, you are being extremely misleading. Your conspiracy theory makes no sense at all anyway, since what would Razbam even be able to gain by blackmailing ED? It makes no sense.

Do you really think that trying to deceive people is somehow helping your cause?

And no, just because you write Factual Truth in bold and underlined, does not magically make that true. It just makes you seem like a crazy homeless person that thinks that the key to having their beliefs accepted is by putting it on a very big sign, rather than it actually making any sense.

You really...should put the pompoms down. You've gone so far to ignore credible information as to everyones credibility that you have none yourself. 

[Tango3B]

1 hour ago, LordOrion said:

RB actually damaged end users by stopping development/support for ther modules to blackmail ED.

Factual Truth (deal with that).

2025: The year of the RazScam.

 

Okay, this is a post misleading people by intent. Why? Why do you do that? There is a vast amount of information, that would at least tell you to be careful of any(!) judgement. Anyway, you have made a decision. Your statement does not help one bit. Why do I say that? Look, our common goal should be to get Razbam and ED to finally sign any kind of agreement to implement said settlement to come forward with a solution acceptable for any of customers. Toxic behavior does not help one bit. So, my suggestion is to step back a bit and let ED and RAZBAM actually do "things" without any bias...

1 hour ago, Aapje said:

Speculation presented as fact.

Apparently they did sign a settlement agreement, so this is a lie.

Very misleading statement given that ED doesn't seem to have paid Razbam, while you are insinuating that they did get the money and owe something in return. Hard to imagine a less deceiving way to write this.

Again speculation. We don't know the contents of the contract. Given that Razbam have explicitly said that they will not do this, it seems very irresponsible to claim that this is fact.

So there doesn't seem to be any factual truth to your entire post. It is just one big heap of misinformation.

What Aapje said. There is actually nothing more to add.

[Hammer1-1]

3 minutes ago, Tango3B said:

Okay, this is a post misleading people by intent. Why? Why do you do that? There is a vast amount of information, that would at least tell you to be careful of any(!) judgement. Anyway, you have made a decision. Your statement does not help one bit. Why do I say that? Look, our common goal should be to get Razbam and ED to finally sign any kind of agreement to implement said settlement to come forward with a solution acceptable for any of customers. Toxic behavior does not help one bit. So, my suggestion is to step back a bit and let ED and RAZBAM actually do "things" without any bias...

With or without bias, he's not wrong.

Edited Sunday at 01:05 AM by Hammer1-1

[Tango3B]

4 minutes ago, Hammer1-1 said:

With or without bias, he's not wrong.

Again, I will not judge what is wrong or right. I will not play the white knight for any kind of bride. I just want people to be some mediocre kind of constructive...

[MiG21bisFishbedL]

33 minutes ago, Hammer1-1 said:

With or without bias, he's not wrong.

If we're going to tar ED with any epithet, negligence is certainly more appropriate than malice or arrogance.

[Tank50us]

1 hour ago, Aapje said:

What logic is this? If you worked for a company and they stopped paying, would you keep working without pay until you lost your house, or would you try to find another job to prevent you from losing your house?

And you ignore that there is supposed to be a settlement, that supposedly says that RB would work on the modules, but for some reason that agreement is no longer being accepted as valid. Yet we do not know all terms of the contract and to what extent each side followed it, so it is impossible to judge it on fact, although clearly, many people think that their bias is as good as facts.

Why should ED give Razbam a PENNY if RB violated the contract? We do know this. Not just from EDs statement, but a few people who were vocal about it BEFORE the lid was closed. While we may not know the EXACT wording of the contracts and legal agreements, it doesn't take a genius to figure out what's in them.

We know that ED has a specific version of DCS that is meant for military use. We know that RB didn't have access to it beyond what they did for Dassault for the Mirage 2k. Is it really hard to understand that RB violated that agreement to make a military grade sim out of the same DCS we play when they weren't supposed to? ED has stated they had a contract ready for RB to sign, and they'd have had the money coming in again. One E-Sign, and none of this would be happening. And yet it is. And the only reason people are shaking the pompoms for RB is because Ron went public claiming to be the victim.

Why is it so hard for people to understand that when someone is in breach of contract, they don't. get. paid. Employers do it all the time with employees. Do something wrong with your contract (IE, what they're paying you to do), ya don't get paid.

And realistically, RB isn't really the developer of these modules, they subcontract the work out. Hence why the South Atlantic map is still seeing work done.

[NEW is my Callsign.]

3 hours ago, Tank50us said:

sorry the truth and the law are on EDs side.

RB is in the wrong here. They violated the contract, and got caught. But instead of just owning up to it, and agreeing to a new contract with ED... they threw a temper tantrum and stopped all work on the modules that people PAID FOR, and then AGAIN violated EDs contract by not handing ED the source code so THEY can continue the work on those modules and keep them working.

you just don't know anything about the situation so I'd suggest you stop before you embarass yourself even more

[Hammer1-1]

58 minutes ago, MiG21bisFishbedL said:

If we're going to tar ED with any epithet, negligence is certainly more appropriate than malice or arrogance.

agreed

[Tank50us]

17 minutes ago, NEW is my Callsign. said:

you just don't know anything about the situation so I'd suggest you stop before you embarass yourself even more

I clearly know more than you. Since you have NOTHING to refute my statement.

[NEW is my Callsign.]

1 hour ago, Tank50us said:

I clearly know more than you. Since you have NOTHING to refute my statement.

How do I refute something that is completely and utterly made up? You can't prove you are right either. You are just spewing out stuff you made up in your mind to be true with no way to prove it.

[Oban]

5 hours ago, Aapje said:

Speculation presented as fact.

Apparently they did sign a settlement agreement, so this is a lie.

Very misleading statement given that ED doesn't seem to have paid Razbam, while you are insinuating that they did get the money and owe something in return. Hard to imagine a less deceiving way to write this.

Again speculation. We don't know the contents of the contract. Given that Razbam have explicitly said that they will not do this, it seems very irresponsible to claim that this is fact.

So there doesn't seem to be any factual truth to your entire post. It is just one big heap of misinformation.

The Facts are on the first page, why do you always dismiss those ? and cherry pick the stuff Razbam released believing those to be factual ? 

Since you seem to believe Razbam in all of this, and try to come across as some sort of SME when dealing with contracts, care to explain why Razbam on at least 3 occasions since the agreement was allegedly signed late 2024, broke the confidentiality cause that went allong with said agreement? 

Razbam have leaked everything, including the C&D letters from ED, and yet, never leaked the actual contracts signed... why do you think that is? 

Why did Razbam not seek legal guidance from the beggining, instead use the court of public opinion? 

Not once has Ron Zambrano put his hand up and apologised to his customers aknowledging his wrongdoings 

You state you don't know the contents of the contract, yet you cosntantly comment as if you do.. 

You speculate every bit as much as 99.999% of the people here, and I include myself in this group. 

There's not much factual truth to your post either. 

FACT Razbam broke their contract
FACT Razbam were issued cease and decists
FACT Razbam breached the confidentiality clauses (on more than one occasion) 

FACT Razbam clearly did not accept the aggreement and continue to use the community as their weapon(s) 

 

[NineLine]

12 hours ago, NEW is my Callsign. said:

btw are you really deleting all the comments that spread misinfo or just the ones that don't paint ED in a good picture?

Correct, also when you guys start attacking each other, those are hidden. If you say Star Trek is better than Star Wars, those are hidden. Things like that.

6 hours ago, Aapje said:

By leaving out the fact that Razbam stopped development due to ED no longer paying them, you are being extremely misleading.

Stick to the first post. Even your comment is leaving out part of the story, and much of the story is not even out there. Once again, its all under a confidentiality agreement and within lawyers hands. 

[Tom Kazansky]

Would it go back to court if for whatever reason that settlement agreement is not implemented?

[Tank50us]

7 hours ago, Aapje said:

Very misleading statement given that ED doesn't seem to have paid Razbam, while you are insinuating that they did get the money and owe something in return. Hard to imagine a less deceiving way to write this.

This isn't any different then if Activision contracted another company to do some work on a COD title, and they turned around around and took the engine assets to make their own game or make something for another client. Activision would most likely either sue them into oblivion or withhold all payments from the moment they caught them.

This isn't a bourgeois vs proletariat situation... this is a case of one group violating the terms of a contract by doing something they weren't supposed to do.

This situation could end tomorrow with the signing of one contract. But that side won't budge... and they're the ones with more to gain... and all they have to do IS SIGN A CONTRACT.

[Naja Bastarda]

The only thing we should focus on is that we gonna lose 200/250€ worth of modules because of their issues.
All the people here talking about contracts, agreements, and guilt are just wasting their time.
 

[supersylph]

I understand that both ED and RAZBAM are trying to protect their own interests. But now that it's been a long time, no one has really stood up to show how to protect the rights of players. Ultimately, the root cause of this conflict is "money" and the uneven distribution of loot between the two sides. Where did all the money go? One of the premises for you to fight over this money is that someone pays you. And the fundamental source of this money is paid by us players. No matter how your money is divided, it has nothing to do with us players directly. Who violates the agreement and who needs to pay compensation to the other party is one thing, and giving players what they deserve is another thing. Now, just because you have a conflict, we players are going to lose everything. This is ridiculous, especially now that the players' money seems to be in the hands of ED, and ED took the money and cancelled these planes.

[Tank50us]

1 minute ago, supersylph said:

I understand that both ED and RAZBAM are trying to protect their own interests. But now that it's been a long time, no one has really stood up to show how to protect the rights of players. Ultimately, the root cause of this conflict is "money" and the uneven distribution of loot between the two sides. Where did all the money go? One of the premises for you to fight over this money is that someone pays you. And the fundamental source of this money is paid by us players. No matter how your money is divided, it has nothing to do with us players directly. Who violates the agreement and who needs to pay compensation to the other party is one thing, and giving players what they deserve is another thing. Now, just because you have a conflict, we players are going to lose everything. This is ridiculous, especially now that the players' money seems to be in the hands of ED, and ED took the money and cancelled these planes.

in legal disputes like this, the money sits in a bank account specifically earmarked for it, and neither side can touch it until the legal issues are fully resolved. So when ED, for example, issues a refund, it's coming out of their pockets, not the escrow account. Now, if the matter is ultimately resolved, and RB comes back to developing the modules... they'll get what they're owed, minus any refunds paid out.

[Esac_mirmidon]

ED is not refunding money.

Is giving store credits.

And there is no money in any escrow account as the oficial statement says. There is an agreement since 2024 not fulfilled by BOTH parts.

[MAXsenna]

3 hours ago, Tom Kazansky said:

Would it go back to court if for whatever reason that settlement agreement is not implemented?

Don't think it ever went to court.  

[MAXsenna]

1 hour ago, Tank50us said:

in legal disputes like this, the money sits in a bank account specifically earmarked for it, and neither side can touch it until the legal issues are fully resolved.

Care to explain how that money magically appear in said claimed account? And if it even exists?

3 hours ago, Tank50us said:

This situation could end tomorrow with the signing of one contract. But that side won't budge... and they're the ones with more to gain... and all they have to do IS SIGN A CONTRACT.

Excuse me? It seems both parties agreed and actually signed an agreement back in late 2024, or are you referring to that "video"?