DCS World 2.0 and New Maps Discussion Thread

[jmod]

It's not just about new visual effects, what about new separate thread for Physics Engine (which c0ff was talking about)?

You can't do that kind of new features with the old one!

 

So,

Please don't limit the Eagle Dynamics' Simulation Engine by supporting the old Graphic Engine (like what you did to the 32-bit systems)!

Stop Black Sea, and make new Persian Gulf Map for new Naval Operations.

[winz]

You don't need the old graphic engine to support the black sea map. The black sea map cannot be dumped at this point, because it contains all playable missions. A fancy new IG is useless without playable content. EDGE will roll-out with Nevada, which is a nice supplementary map to have, but cannot be the only playable region. Additional maps will most likely come after Nevada but before that, and before they have enough community create content, Black Sea cannot be dumped.

[Grimes]

jmod, there is such a thing as backwards compatibility. Supporting the Black Sea map with EDGE is not entirely a matter of supporting the older engine as much as it has to do with supporting how to correctly "read" the map files. The map is still made up of 3d objects, texutres, and proprietary data, all of stuff EDGE will also rely on.

 

edit, Winz made some good points. Removing compatibility for the Black Sea map would remove every single piece of content that has been made for DCS over the years and would effectively destroy the sim.

Edited July 12, 2013 by Grimes

[jmod]

The concept of backward compatibility is not new, but the point is:

Making new Engine compatible with the old one (for just only one old map) is easier than making new (Persian Gulf) Map?

[mmaruda]

September 1st? WWII stuff coming to DCS... :music_whistling:

[winz]

That's the wrong question to ask as a developer.

The right question to ask is what is more beneficial for the sim, finding a way to make black sea map work in the IG, or creating a new map instead?

 

It's not just only one old map, its every mission and campaign currently available for DCS World. If Black Sea map is dumped then on the day new is IG released you would have basically nothing to play. There is no way a new map would roll out with high quality (Black Shark Deployment lvl) campaigns, high quality MP missions, and high quality SP mission, for every module available for DCS World.

Edited July 12, 2013 by winz

[jmod]

As a member of DCS: Super High Fidelity fan, I'm afraid of recent ED's decisions!

First, killing the DCS: F-15C Eagle project, and second, sacrificing new modern techniques for backward compatibility's sake!

[Grimes]

The concept of backward compatibility is not new, but the point is:

Making new Engine compatible with the old map is easier than making new (Persian Gulf) Map?

 

FTFY.

 

http://en.wiki.eagle.ru/wiki/All_about_land

Have a go at making any bit of terrain in the current engine, never-mind EDGE, and I think you will have your answer.

[winz]

As a member of DCS: Super High Fidelity fan, I'm afraid of recent ED's decisions!

First, killing the DCS: F-15C Eagle project, and second, sacrificing new modern techniques for backward compatibility's sake!

The great thing about backward compatibility is that you can have both ;) I imagine that adding suport for an old data format is one of the more trivial tasks of developing a new graphical engine from scratch ;)

[TaliG]

 

The overall "simulation operating system" is termed DCS World and is a free program that includes a free Su-25T for the player to fly. All DCS products will plug into DCS World as unique modules within the same software installation. DCS products will not be limited to aircraft, but will include maps, missions, campaigns, environment objects, weapons, vehicles and ships.

 

DCS World is a free ''core'' program.

We pay for modules. Aircraft, Maps etc

 

Will EDGE/ Nevada cost anything?

EDGE is rendering engine, so no. It has been stated that the plan is still for the Nevada map to be free for users who pre-ordered DCS: A-10C Warthog beta.]

 

EDGE will cost nothing, and is an update of the core DCS World...

or it will be a payware bundle with Nevada, free to those that obtained a10c while in beta..

and all the other people that spended 260+$ for all the modules will need to pay for the DCS World core update ''EDGE''? (my point is not for Nevada to be free to all, but EDGE to be free to all)

 

BUT:

Are there maps in progress that take advantage of EDGE?

Yes, the first map to take advantage of EDGE is Nevada.

So EDGE will not be free (sold together with Nevada)

DCS World will become payware by forcing us to update the core thrugh Nevada?

 

And if DCS World will remain free together with EDGE, then we have:

Will the Black Sea map in its current form work with EDGE?

No. Since the technology behind EDGE is dramatically different, down to the tools that create it, terrain needs to be built with the EDGE benefits in mind. This is a HUGE undertaking and not an easy task to redo something.

and:

The Black Sea map is not going anywhere.

:huh::doh:

 

So, Mr Wags , instead of screanshots and repeating the state of the next puch...

can you please tell us in few words...

Are we going to pay for the DCS World core update ''EDGE''?

If not, how are you going to support the new DCS World core ''EDGE''? (without Nevada)

And last, If EDGE will be introduced to DCS World only through Nevada module, why will you give Nevada + EDGE to those that obtained a10c while in beta (Nevada was build on the old dx9 engine, not EDGE) but you willl huppily charge for ''EDGE'' (not Nevada) all the others that bought all your modules?

 

Thanks for your answare in advance.

[Silver_Dragon]

You pay by Nevada only if you no pay the preorder A-10C beta access.

 

You support EDGE pay other DCS:W modules (Ka-50/A-10C after beta stage/P-51, etc)

 

Other DCS:W improvements (missile engine, new improvements, new modules) use similar support system.

 

Nevada sold separate of EDGE (DCS:W will update to the new engine with them finish develop and replace old engine into them. In that moment, Nevada will comming into DCS:W).

[aaron886]

When the new IG engine is finished, then 3rd party devs will acquire the tools and we are going to have many theaters. I believe that a devoted team with the right tools will be able to provide a professionally made theater in a year or less.

 

This is extremely speculative.

[Vivoune]

I just can't wait for the new rendering engine. I know a loooot of people seems to not really care about it and just want new aircraft thinking the current graphics are good enough but damn, I'm one of those that needs strong immersion to get sucked in a virtual world and believable geometry, textures and effects is the main road to go there. Despite how much I'm eager to get my hands on the F-18 and new terrains, EDGE really is the one thing I'm really looking forward to.

 

I'd gladly support ED and buy EDGE the way I bought other modules, especially if I know it allows ED to develop it further and quicker. For example it could be nice to be able to "pre-order" a "support edition" of EDGE or some premium variant of the free EDGE, not that it'd be too different from the free variant, just give me an excuse and option to support it.

Edited July 12, 2013 by Vivoune

[Rusty_M]

Lots of crazy speculation recently in this thread. From the official posts and a little crazy speculation of my own, I think that the engine will run automatically based on what map is being used, so Black Sea would remain with all its missions and campaigns and use the existing engine.

 

Nevada would use EDGE.

 

I dont think we'd pay for the engine, but rather the maps. So, in effect, if someone released a free map using EDGE, we'd get to use EDGE for nothing.

[Raven68]

I guess the bottom line question is if DCS World is to be free to play how will those that don't purchase the new maps see the benefit of the new rendering engine (EDGE/IG)?

 

They way I see it is they wont get the benefits of the new rendering engine but will still be able to play in the current theater seeing things as they are now. Once EDGE and new maps are released the new engine will promote itself and you will WANT to buy the new maps thus pay for the development of the new engine and future content. IMHO of course. :)

 

EDIT: I think Rusty beat me to it....

Edited July 12, 2013 by Raven68

[SkateZilla]

IG Is loaded when it loads the mission.

 

I can list a few games that use one IG for one (new) Map and another IG for another.

 

And one of them IS a flight sim.

[bueno]

New Map and scenaries

 

Hi,

 

I've read this documentation : http://en.wiki.eagle.ru/wiki/Creating_land_2 and I've read on the forum that some people was waiting EDGE SDK to continue to work on their map. So I have few questions for ED :)

 

- At this step of the dev and based on the last progress done since january 2013, do you think EDGE will be out for the end of this year? Because I've understand EDGE SDK will be release AFTER EDGE release date.

- Can we expect Nevada map before end of this year ? What is the status of this project? Was it mainly missing?

- Do you work on another map or sceneries ?

- How many people work on map and projects related?

 

I know it is a lot of question. Maybe you can answer, maybe not yet...I just would like get some news from my favorite editor :thumbup:

 

I love your work I would like to help you but I'm not a modder, or artist...how ever I can maybe translate in french if you need :smartass:

 

Bueno

[Boris]

Maybe Wags can just quickly slip the answers into today's update... :smilewink:

[GGTharos]

Wags said that ED will post additional information as it becomes available. If you don't see it in an update, it isn't yet available.

 

There is no ETA for any of this currently.

[bueno]

thx GGTharos for your answer. I hope Wags or ED team will pass on this post and will have better news...It is sad. We have a lot of plane and object to destroy but our DCS"World" is not a world but a map.

 

A lot of third party work on new plane but no project for map...I'm sad. I would like to see new country. I love to fly not just to fly but to travel ;)

 

cheers

[joey45]

*COUGH*http://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=1811384&postcount=153*COUGH*

[Dudester22]

To Give you SOME idea on how long it will take to Code up a Image Renderer/GFX Engine/Rendering Engine/Whatever You wanna call it.

 

Frostbite 2 took 3 years to develop, from an already standing base code (Frostbite 1.0)

(Frostbite being the GFX/Physics/Destruction/Hit Detection engine that drives BF3, MoH:WF etc)

(Frostbite 2 Being DirectX 11 and 64-Bit, as well as mostly GFX Related)

 

Frostbite averages 75 Programmers for the Engine Alone, Across 20 Teams.

 

Do ED have 75 programmers? If not then we are looking at about 20 years if you are correct.

[jmod]

I don't know why the main feature of EDGE, multitasking, is not announced yet! :D

What's new about separate thread for Physics Engine (which c0ff was talking about)?

 

Please don't limit the Eagle Dynamics' Simulation Engine by supporting the old Graphic Engine (like what you did to the 32-bit systems)!

Stop Black Sea, and make new Persian Gulf Map for new Naval Operations.

[c0ff]

What's new about separate thread for Physics Engine (which c0ff was talking about)?

I wasn't.

[Cedaway]

Question:

I Understood that Nevada map is ready but the IG (EDGE) is not.

 

But If the Nevada map is ready, that means there is already a known way to create maps under EDGE.

So, is it possible to know how to make a map under the new IG? So that 3rd parties ans community could start to create...

 

(Or, the other possibility is that the nevada map is 'experimental' to test/run EDGE and needs to be continuously updated as the IG improve, then, there wouldn't be a fixed way to create new map presently... Grunt)