F-18 grip, WARTHOG compatible

[Nash]

HEYGKC,

How is the progress with the spring mod and head tracker?

 

Sent from my A210 using Tapatalk

[hegykc]

I just say that i dont't need cockpit parts, and i like to use mouse with rift in dcs..

 

I'm just wondering why someone who doesn't want/need a simpit built, is posting in a thread about building simpits.

 

Hope I didn't sound too sensitive there :)

 

HEYGKC,

How is the progress with the spring mod and head tracker?

 

You sir are a total partybraker. Don't you see we should go talk about simpit products in the VR subforum? :)

 

An opportunity opened up to include a couple of other, much more important prototypes while I waited on parts for the spring mod, and I took it. We now have a fully working CDU I can manufacture for 1/10 of what it costs now. And the CDU, being the most complex part in the entire side panel module, was holding up the whole thing. So something that was planned for the middle of next year, or hoped for I should say, just became a reality right now. And the cost was a month of delay on the silly spring mod. Worth it, if you ask me. Also I wanted to standardize the parts for both stock Warthog and extended warthog spring mod, but that didn't work out, so I had to make a few modifications, and re-order all the parts.

 

Head tracker is manufactured by CNC milling, which I'm starting in October.

 

not all of his parts are "exact replica cockpit parts" there is some SWAG (scientific wild-ass guess ) in there as well

 

Bring it baby :) I am manufacturing my ass off right now. About 1 working prototype each week, and it'll only get better. Any bitter or spiteful sarcasm you got, I'll take it. It's quite a motivation. Although I would much prefer to compete against your prototypes you have been working on for years, if sarcasm and remarks is all you got, I'll take you on :)

Save

Edited September 23, 2016 by hegykc

[Nash]

 

You sir are a total partybraker. Don't you see we should go talk about simpit products in the VR subforum? :)

 

An opportunity opened up to include a couple of other, much more important prototypes while I waited on parts for the spring mod, and I took it. We now have a fully working CDU I can manufacture for 1/10 of what it costs now. And the CDU, being the most complex part in the entire side panel module, was holding up the whole thing. So something that was planned for the middle of next year, or hoped for I should say, just became a reality right now. And the cost was a month of delay on the silly spring mod. Worth it, if you ask me. Also I wanted to standardize the parts for both stock Warthog and extended warthog spring mod, but that didn't work out, so I had to make a few modifications, and re-order all the parts.

 

Head tracker is manufactured by CNC milling, which I'm starting in October.

 

U mean to say that with the changes you are making to the spring mod if I buy the one for stock Warthog then I can easily upgrade to the one for Warthog with extension without buying a new spring mod?

Can you post some head tracker prototype pics?

And the spring mod and the head tracker after October production, when can we order them?

October itself?

Please bear with the multiple questions...

 

Sent from my A210 using Tapatalk

[bkthunder]

@Hegykc, don't worry about the nay-sayers.

I can already tell you that I will buy a VR headset, and I will buy your warthog spring mod, and I will buy the F-18 grip and others if you make them, and if the price is right (as it seems it will be) I will definitely be getting the A-10 CDU and some other panels.

So you see, VR and physical panels are the way to go for me, and I don't care how VR and physical pit is going to blend, I will enjoy both.

[BIGNEWY]

I always pop by here and see what is going on, interesting stuff, I hope things work out.

 

A reminder to all, to keep things friendly, lets not let our passion over-spill to much :)

[hegykc]

U mean to say that with the changes you are making to the spring mod if I buy the one for stock Warthog then I can easily upgrade to the one for Warthog with extension without buying a new spring mod?

Can you post some head tracker prototype pics?

And the spring mod and the head tracker after October production, when can we order them?

October itself?

Please bear with the multiple questions...

 

Sent from my A210 using Tapatalk

 

Yes, one mod for both stock and extended warthog, with 2 sets of springs. I am costing myself money here, because I could sell you one now, and another when you extend your stick. But my goal is to make this hobby cheaper, I'll make money on different products, rather thank milking a single one.

 

Pictures of the head tracker prototype in October.

 

Sales of spring mod as soon as the new parts are checked and tested.

 

@Hegykc, don't worry about the nay-sayers.

I can already tell you that I will buy a VR headset, and I will buy your warthog spring mod, and I will buy the F-18 grip and others if you make them, and if the price is right (as it seems it will be) I will definitely be getting the A-10 CDU and some other panels.

So you see, VR and physical panels are the way to go for me, and I don't care how VR and physical pit is going to blend, I will enjoy both.

 

Yeah, me too. If I could combine the two, it would be a perfect solution, but not possible at this point. But that doesn't mean I need to choose one or the other. I'll get my mission planing, plane managing and procedure fix from my simpit, and my flight enjoyment from my VR.

 

I just don't know what all the VR fans are doing promoting VR in my simpit building thread :) There is literary a whole sub-forum titled VR :)

Save

Edited September 23, 2016 by hegykc

[Goblin]

I just don't know what all the VR fans are doing promoting VR in my simpit building thread

 

Because VR and Simpits aren't mutually exclusive.

 

As I was trying to say in a earlier post, real controllers are important to VR users as well.

 

VR has really cool 3D visuals, albeit with lower resolution, and really steady head tracking.

The problem with VR is interacting with controls, since you can't see them.

Today, the best option is to use a mouse (or similar) to interact with the VR cockpit. That and a programmable HOTAS.

 

Now, peripherals with buttons and switches can be used in VR. It's just a matter of learning where they are IRL, and not move them :) Or, if the controller look the same, with the same dimensions, as the real life cockpit that's rendered in VR.

 

I have built a 8 axis throttle, with buttons, switches and encoders. I use it in DCS while looking into my Oculus. Now, it doesn't cover all controls, and since it's not a replica, it doesn't fit with the visuals in VR.

Your controllers probably would work better in that regard. It would be interesting to try those P-51 panels and place them where they "seem to be" in the VR view.

I bet that after a little practise, you would find the controllers without having to lift the HMD.

But for the controller to be effective in VR, it must be just like the real controller (providing that the 3D modeller made the VR cockpit according to the real life counterpart).

[Nash]

Yes, one mod for both stock and extended warthog, with 2 sets of springs. I am costing myself money here, because I could sell you one now, and another when you extend your stick. But my goal is to make this hobby cheaper, I'll make money on different products, rather thank milking a single one.

 

Pictures of the head tracker prototype in October.

 

Sales of spring mod as soon as the new parts are checked and tested.

 

 

 

Yeah, me too. If I could combine the two, it would be a perfect solution, but not possible at this point. But that doesn't mean I need to choose one or the other. I'll get my mission planing, plane managing and procedure fix from my simpit, and my flight enjoyment from my VR.

 

I just don't know what all the VR fans are doing promoting VR in my simpit building thread :) There is literary a whole sub-forum titled VR :)

Save

Thanks for the quick reply man...

And I am glad that you are saving us simmers some money...

Me and a couple Warthog owner friends are looking to buy the spring mod and head tracker together so I think we should be able to by October if you make them available...

So godspeed to all your projects...

 

Sent from my A210 using Tapatalk

[Deadman]

No sarcasm intended just a statement of fact. I don't work on prototypes (an original or first model of something from which other forms are copied or developed)

I have original items i some times copy with different techniques.

 

 

 

Bring it baby :) I am manufacturing my ass off right now. About 1 working prototype each week, and it'll only get better. Any bitter or spiteful sarcasm you got, I'll take it. It's quite a motivation. Although I would much prefer to compete against your prototypes you have been working on for years, if sarcasm and remarks is all you got, I'll take you on :)

Save

[SageOT]

+1 Simpits and VR go great together. For me the only difference is I no longer needed my pit to look the part. As long as the switches are in the spot where the VR is telling your brain they should be it doesn't matter anymore if they are back lit, labeled etc. Hell reaching out and hitting a real world toggle right when your brain says you should puts the VR experience over the top.

 

No need to hate on VR, it is the future, but it sure won't kill Simpits. Only a need to release the f-18 stick mod... what this thread was originally about. .... ;)

[rajdary]

Yes, one mod for both stock and extended warthog, with 2 sets of springs. I am costing myself money here, because I could sell you one now, and another when you extend your stick. But my goal is to make this hobby cheaper, I'll make money on different products, rather thank milking a single one.

 

Pictures of the head tracker prototype in October.

 

Sales of spring mod as soon as the new parts are checked and tested.

 

 

 

Yeah, me too. If I could combine the two, it would be a perfect solution, but not possible at this point. But that doesn't mean I need to choose one or the other. I'll get my mission planing, plane managing and procedure fix from my simpit, and my flight enjoyment from my VR.

 

I just don't know what all the VR fans are doing promoting VR in my simpit building thread :) There is literary a whole sub-forum titled VR :)

Save

 

I also have my VR set, but planning to buy the A10C CDU, a few grips and other stuff i saw from your renders, plus anything you make for the VEAO Eurofighter Typhoon. :thumbup:

[MattM]

Just when i ordered a Gladiator Pro, i stumbled accross those Warthog spring mod photos (you should really put add them to the opening post post :thumbup:).

 

Any chance that it'll be ready in two weeks time? At least those for the stock Warthog without extension. Would order them right away, even just a prototype version. I wouldn't want to invest extra money in the Gladiator, when this spring mod will fix the only problems i have with the Warthog.

[Farlander]

Just when i ordered a Gladiator Pro, i stumbled accross those Warthog spring mod photos (you should really put add them to the opening post post :thumbup:).

 

Any chance that it'll be ready in two weeks time? At least those for the stock Warthog without extension. Would order them right away, even just a prototype version. I wouldn't want to invest extra money in the Gladiator, when this spring mod will fix the only problems i have with the Warthog.

 

I have real doubts it will get anywhere close to that gimbal, can't you just have the grip mounted on the gladiator anyways?

[MattM]

Of course it won't be the comparable, but i'm mostly interested in some seperation of the pitch and roll axis as well as getting rid of the annoying center detend without simply removing the main spring and getting too weak spring force in the process.

 

This mod seems to accomplish all that and considering that this will be about 10% of the cost of the Gladiator (which Warthog adapter will mostly come out next year at some point), i'm willing to make some compromises.

 

I would prefer to test the Gladiator alongside the Warthog with this spring mod, that's why i'm wondering if the mod will be avaliable before the two weeks time for me sending the Gladiator back would expire.

[Farlander]

i see :)

[Thisdale]

Concerning Joystick and springs...

 

What the world of joysticks need is a proper Hydraulic system like they do for Sim Handbrakes and brake pedals (load cells). Don't confuse this with ForceFeedback tho.

 

 

Load cell: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Load_cell

 

Load cells create retension in pressure to simulate digitally what an hydraulic pressure does (on brake pedals...).

 

The next step is an actual Hydraulic system.

 

Here's an example of what an Hydraulic handbrake is:

DSD hydralic Hand Brake: http://www.derekspearedesigns.com/handbrake.html

 

Also, Destin from SmarterEveryDay explains briefly the Hydraulic situation of a joystick in his T38 video (lucky bastard):

(He explains the Joystick issue at the 5mins mark during the Loop maneuver).

 

An Hydraulic system would create this effect, which is more realistic and would prevent the spring issue. In essence, the Joystick with an Hydraulic system would "go rigid" when the pressure is "activated" when you play.

 

Anyways... cheers,

Edited October 1, 2016 by Thisdale

[Farlander]

Concerning Joystick and springs...

 

What the world of joysticks need is a proper Hydraulic system like they do for Sim Handbrakes and brake pedals (load cells). Don't confuse this with ForceFeedback tho.

 

 

Load cell: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Load_cell

 

Load cells create retension in pressure to simulate digitally what an hydraulic pressure does (on brake pedals...).

 

The next step is an actual Hydraulic system.

 

Here's an example of what an Hydraulic handbrake is:

DSD hydralic Hand Brake: http://www.derekspearedesigns.com/handbrake.html

 

Also, Destin from SmarterEveryDay explains briefly the Hydraulic situation of a joystick in his T38 video (lucky bastard):

(He explains the Joystick issue at the 5mins mark during the Loop maneuver).

 

An Hydraulic system would create this effect, which is more realistic and would prevent the spring issue. In essence, the Joystick with an Hydraulic system would "go rigid" when the pressure is "activated" when you play.

 

Anyways... cheers,

 

im a believer that FFB is a better option as Hydraulic controls only apply to certain aiplanes and you can somewhat simulate it with FFB

[Ant0ine]

http://www.paccus.com/forcefeedbackjoysticks/hawk_specs

[Flamin_Squirrel]

Concerning Joystick and springs...

 

What the world of joysticks need is a proper Hydraulic system like they do for Sim Handbrakes and brake pedals (load cells). Don't confuse this with ForceFeedback tho.

 

 

Load cell: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Load_cell

 

Load cells create retension in pressure to simulate digitally what an hydraulic pressure does (on brake pedals...).

 

The next step is an actual Hydraulic system.

 

Here's an example of what an Hydraulic handbrake is:

DSD hydralic Hand Brake: http://www.derekspearedesigns.com/handbrake.html

 

Also, Destin from SmarterEveryDay explains briefly the Hydraulic situation of a joystick in his T38 video (lucky bastard):

(He explains the Joystick issue at the 5mins mark during the Loop maneuver).

 

An Hydraulic system would create this effect, which is more realistic and would prevent the spring issue. In essence, the Joystick with an Hydraulic system would "go rigid" when the pressure is "activated" when you play.

 

Anyways... cheers,

 

I think you might be getting a bit mixed up here. Hydraulic control in this case means that hydraulic power is being used to drive the control surfaces; it doesn't mean hydraulics are being used to provide resistance on the stick/rudder. In fact in some (many?) jets, springs are exactly what's used to provide primary resistance to control input.

[Farlander]

I think you might be getting a bit mixed up here. Hydraulic control in this case means that hydraulic power is being used to drive the control surfaces; it doesn't mean hydraulics are being used to provide resistance on the stick/rudder. In fact in some (many?) jets, springs are exactly what's used to provide primary resistance to control input.

 

And counterweight i think

[SinusoidDelta]

Concerning Joystick and springs...

 

What the world of joysticks need is a proper Hydraulic system like they do for Sim Handbrakes and brake pedals (load cells). Don't confuse this with ForceFeedback tho.

 

 

Load cell: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Load_cell

 

Load cells create retension in pressure to simulate digitally what an hydraulic pressure does (on brake pedals...).

 

You may be misunderstanding what a load cell is. A load cell is an electrical transducer to measure force, commonly with a strain gauge bridge. This is applicable to modern fighters in the form of a stick force sensor, a part of a redundant control system. As the name implies, an SFS measures the force applied to the control stick and transmits the electrical signals to the flight control system. Generally speaking, a closed loop feedback system verifies aircraft response is correct in comparison to an applied stick force input.

[swagchimp]

And counterweight i think

 

I don't know exactly on what modern jets it's done like that, but I think it isn't in the Super Hornet. The FCS in it can change the required force to hold the stick on a certain point on its arch depending on flight condition, so it must be done differently. I have no idea how though...

[Viersbovsky]

I don't know exactly on what modern jets it's done like that, but I think it isn't in the Super Hornet. The FCS in it can change the required force to hold the stick on a certain point on its arch depending on flight condition, so it must be done differently. I have no idea how though...

 

For those interested, fhe flight manual states this:

A traditional center mounted control stick is used to provide pitch and roll inputs to the FCS. Since there is no mechanical linkage between the stick and the FCCs or the flight control surfaces, stick feel is provided by two feel-spring assemblies and two eddy current dampers. The feel spring assemblies provide a linear stick force versus stick displacement gradient in each axis. Two4-channel position sensors, one in each axis, measure stick displacement and send longitudinal and lateral stick commands to the FCCs proportional to stick displacement. Stick force and displacement are listed in figure 2-21 for full stick travel. The eddy current dampers provide stick motion damping in each axis. Additionally, the control stick is mass balanced to minimize longitudinal stick movement resulting from accelerations normally experienced during catapult launch.[/Quote]

 

Judging by the pics and description from an Apache manual, the feel spring basically is a spring that has a magnetic actuator. This actuator can move the other end of the spring to lengthen or shorten the travel of this spring, thereby changing the point where no force is felt.

 

Quite similar to this system that Sokol showed me quite some time ago:

 

But yeah, I think that's a biiiiiiit out of reach for most of us when it comes to hardware.

Edited October 6, 2016 by Viersbovsky

[98abaile]

That could easily be done with springs and linear actuators, it's also been done using springs and door magnet locks for a crude force trim system on an X52; or if you just want to change the center position, a leadscrew moving the (rigid) follower on a sprung cam system (with the actual cam attached to the stick rather than the base). The problem is that neither are much good for anything that's not FBW and won't give you the instant trim needed for helicopters.

Edited October 7, 2016 by 98abaile

[AMEDooley]

So I've been looking for some info about the F-18 stick. And I don't see anything outside of a few comments in the beginning. Is there an update for those?