New FM update

[wess24m]

Seems to me that with the new FM you need significant left rudder at cruise conditions (before the rudder position was more or less in neutral). Anybody else notice that?

 

The only thing I noticed is the rudder had a bump a couple times when I trimmed it. Didn't have to hold rudder for straight flight. You don't by chance have rudder trim enabled do you? Or possibly drifting right.

[streakeagle]

All that matters is how close they can get it to the real thing. Not having firsthand experience, I have no basis for nitpicking. Having been a passenger, I can say that a real UH-1 didn't wobble so bad that I could feel it rolling/pitching side-to-side even in a hover and the pilot didn't have to work the stick like I have in this game. I enjoyed the challenge of the original release, but realism in a simulator should trump personal preferences for harder/easier FMs.

[wess24m]

All that matters is how close they can get it to the real thing. Not having firsthand experience, I have no basis for nitpicking. Having been a passenger, I can say that a real UH-1 didn't wobble so bad that I could feel it rolling/pitching side-to-side even in a hover and the pilot didn't have to work the stick like I have in this game. I enjoyed the challenge of the original release, but realism in a simulator should trump personal preferences for harder/easier FMs.

 

Completely agree.

[FZG_Immel]

yep. the slower response caused me trouble at first, cause my helicopter seemed too heavy for manoeuvering.. I had a 7 curve on X-Y axis before the new FM.. now I fly with no curves at all.

 

like it

[sorcer3r]

All that matters is how close they can get it to the real thing. Not having firsthand experience, I have no basis for nitpicking. Having been a passenger, I can say that a real UH-1 didn't wobble so bad that I could feel it rolling/pitching side-to-side even in a hover and the pilot didn't have to work the stick like I have in this game. I enjoyed the challenge of the original release, but realism in a simulator should trump personal preferences for harder/easier FMs.

 

Agree. If its realistic as it is now then we should be happy.

 

But because of the old FM the new FM is no challenge for me anymore.

Hm... need sling loads and other features ASAP to get some challenge back . ;)

[EvilBivol-1]

We certainly don't tune the FM to make it artificially easier or harder. Our goal is to make it as correct as possible. This is based on correct modeling of the physical dynamics and feedback from our actual or former Huey pilots involved with testing.

[wolle]

The only thing I noticed is the rudder had a bump a couple times when I trimmed it. Didn't have to hold rudder for straight flight. You don't by chance have rudder trim enabled do you? Or possibly drifting right.

 

No, I don't use rudder trim. I attached a track to illustrate what I am talking about (the need for left rudder to keep the ball centered). Or am I doing something wrong?

LeftRudder.trk

[BIGNEWY]

We certainly don't tune the FM to make it artificially easier or harder. Our goal is to make it as correct as possible. This is based on correct modeling of the physical dynamics and feedback from our actual or former Huey pilots involved with testing.

 

If that is the case I am happy with it, thanks for trying to make this as real as it gets :thumbup:

[Frusheen]

I have read of the real Huey being capable of twenty to thirty seconds of hands off hover in calm weather. This is due in large part to the stabilizer bar. I find this FM much nicer to fly and much easier to hover now that that awful bobbing is gone. I never entered VRS with the previous FM but understand it was incorrectly modeled.

 

I'm flying with 'full size' controls using zero deadband, no curves or saturation and don't use trim. So far I'm very impressed.

 

Like everyone else I'd like the final release to be as accurate as possible. I'm looking forward to some input from real Huey pilots.

 

One thing I have noticed is a very slow pirouette rate even with full right pedal. Anyone no if that aspect is accurate?

[gunterlund21]

Much more enjoyable to fly now. Can actually hover it. Landing is still a trick but I need more practice. Would love to get MI-8pilots opinion on it since he just flew the real one recently. I would expect its more stable than the real one but the learning curve is not as steep now.

Edited May 15, 2013 by gunterlund21

[P1KW]

Well!

It perceives and feels much more natural. But ...

I was on the ground, testing the Force Trim and stick travel ... When suddenly ... Where are my blades? :D

This is new? :huh:

 

 

 

 

Great work Belsimtek. Fantastic. :thumbup:

 

Greetings!

[Napa]

Seems to me that with the new FM you need significant left rudder at cruise conditions (before the rudder position was more or less in neutral). Anybody else notice that?

 

I remember the project manager Alex "PilotMi8" Podvoyskiy had a flight with the Huey in Arizona and he commended the need for rudder:

 

"The only major discrepancy in our model as far as balance in flight is the position of the pedals in level flight. In the real thing the right pedal is pressed in about 1.5 - 2 inches at speeds of 80 – 90 knots, whereas in our model the pedals are almost neutral. Because of this, Nick sometimes had to correct me in level flight to center the ball."

 

Here's the article http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=105440

 

As long as it's more realistic now then I'm all for it.

Edited May 15, 2013 by Innerloop

[TimeKilla]

We certainly don't tune the FM to make it artificially easier or harder. Our goal is to make it as correct as possible. This is based on correct modeling of the physical dynamics and feedback from our actual or former Huey pilots involved with testing.

 

I think people might be getting the wrong idea partly because of that what flight model do you use thread game or sim, some folk might have wrongly thought you might have been thinking about moving away from sim if you're customers wanted that over sim AFM.

 

Thanks for the update and great support. :thumbup:

[wolle]

I remember the project manager Alex "PilotMi8" Podvoyskiy had a flight with the Huey in Arizona and he commended the need for rudder:

 

"The only major discrepancy in our model as far as balance in flight is the position of the pedals in level flight. In the real thing the right pedal is pressed in about 1.5 - 2 inches at speeds of 80 – 90 knots, whereas in our model the pedals are almost neutral. Because of this, Nick sometimes had to correct me in level flight to center the ball."

 

Here's the article http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=105440

 

As long as it's more realistic now then I'm all for it.

 

Even more worrying, because I have to press left pedal! (not right pedal) What am I doing wrong?

 

Just to make sure that I don't have things set up completely wrong: the more I pull on the collective, the more left pedal I have to give it, right? At what torque do you guys usually fly your cruise? I have my torque needle typically in its 9 o'clock position.

 

Somebody please clarify!

 

Help is much appreciated.

[J7G]

I like it. Thanks BST.

[hassata]

Yup-feels great. Thanks!

[Yurgon]

Just did a short test flight, I can finally (come close to a) hover! :joystick:

 

Guys, do you know what this means? If the final flight model doesn't revert back to the old one, we can call ourselves an elite club, so whenever a newbie complains like "This is way too hard, it shouldn't be that difficult, can't imagine the real Huey being that tough to fly", we can always tease them "Huh! You should've tried the beta. Now it's real easy." :megalol:

[sSkullZnBoneZz]

Thanks Belsimtek, nice update to FM.

[doright]

Even more worrying, because I have to press left pedal! (not right pedal) What am I doing wrong?

 

Just to make sure that I don't have things set up completely wrong: the more I pull on the collective, the more left pedal I have to give it, right? At what torque do you guys usually fly your cruise? I have my torque needle typically in its 9 o'clock position.

 

Somebody please clarify!

 

Help is much appreciated.

 

Up collective needs left pedal. Faster airspeed needs less left to right pedal.

 

Might also check that trim is released (lctrl t) and check the input window (rctrl enter). Some missions start out with trimmer engaged.

[wess24m]

Just did a short test flight, I can finally (come close to a) hover! :joystick:

 

Guys, do you know what this means? If the final flight model doesn't revert back to the old one, we can call ourselves an elite club, so whenever a newbie complains like "This is way too hard, it shouldn't be that difficult, can't imagine the real Huey being that tough to fly", we can always tease them "Huh! You should've tried the beta. Now it's real easy." :megalol:

 

Lol. :thumbup: so true

[bthrun]

Thanks for the update, I like it. The old FM was fun and challenging. This new one is fun and challenging too, but now I can scan the horizon or read the instruments and fly without worrying about gaining/losing speed/altitude or going too far off course. Takeoffs and landings are much more manageable. No need for curvature or saturation changes anymore.

[wess24m]

No, I don't use rudder trim. I attached a track to illustrate what I am talking about (the need for left rudder to keep the ball centered). Or am I doing something wrong?

 

I checked your track. Watched it once and flew it once, looks like the slip indicator is lying to you a little bit. I checked this by getting to speed (120/80/60 knots) and flew down the runway 3 times respectively to the speeds I gave, to check if I was aligned with the centerline. I was able to fly with neutral rudder while overflying the runway whilst being aligned.

 

As was said above, If you're Huey is heavier you'll need more left rudder during liftoff, as you probably already know, or big changes in collective will require rudder work at any speed (which didn't seem to be the issue in your track). Notice when you're generally flying around and you'll see the slip indicator tweak out every once in awhile, I just ignore that as long as there isn't any huge swing to one side or the other for a prolonged time or if the Huey is visually veering to the right or left.

 

In short your flying looks fine to me.

[EvilBivol-1]

What I would like to know is if realism was just sacrificed for this updated FM or do they feel it more closely reflects a real huey.

This was already answered above. There's no need for any "paranoia" about dumbing down the FM. We have absolutely no interest to do so. We have two very experienced former Huey pilots actively testing the Huey on our test team and it is their feedback, along with other subject matter experts we work with, that guides our tuning of the FM.

 

The FM has not radically changed since open beta release. There has just been some tuning of the stabilizer bar and main rotor models, which has lead to increased damping and stability as described by our test pilots. I don't want to speak on their behalf as they are free to comment publically whenever they have the time and desire (and have done so already prior to this update). We are still not final, so further tuning will still continue as we move forward. However we are confident in saying that the increased stability in this update is more realistic than the original tuning of the open beta release version.

Edited May 15, 2013 by EvilBivol-1

[Vintovka]

I apologize my comments were made prematurely before reading your official post on page 4. I should have more trust in the development team and I deleted the rant post. Thank you for clarifying this and giving me some peace of mind.

[FreeFall]

So, should I eventually buy this sucka mutha ****a? I've been hesitating so far, mainly because I've been reading your experiences (SOOO HARD TO LAND AND FLY OMG!!!) and waiting for the promised new FM to arrive.

 

Should I buy NOW? I have TM HOTAS Warthog (too stiff??) + Saitek Combat Pedals (center detent causes trouble?) + TrackIR 5. :confused: :joystick: