Easier to land with no wheels?

[Dudester22]

Just done a mission where I had all my wheels shot off, but to my surprise it was easier landing with no wheels. The plane came to a stop after only a short time and there was no loss of control as I went down the runway. I might be wrong here, but I'm sure I used to skid all over the show in 1.26. Has something changed in 1.27 that stops that?

Edited January 26, 2014 by Dudester22

[-Pv-]

I agree that to get the plane to stop as as fast as the AI, belly landing is the only way to do it.

 

Even if I land at stall speed with full flaps, speedbreak and wheelbreaks, I cannot stop in less than half of a long runway in a normal wheels landing. The AI stop in about 200 feet or less.

-Pv-

[Damien]

yeah.. it's like riding a sled across the runway.. That said.. most difficult thing about the belly landing is trying to explain it to the crew chief and maintenance..

 

-Damien

[Dudester22]

yeah.. it's like riding a sled across the runway.. That said.. most difficult thing about the belly landing is trying to explain it to the crew chief and maintenance..

 

-Damien

 

I didn't actually belly land all that was missing was the wheels on the end of the landing gear. You would think that would break up though and that I would end up on my belly, but that doesn't happen.

[ENO]

Depending on how you look at it, the worst thing about not having wheels is not being able to steer yourself out of the grass if that's where the aircraft wants to take you. If you end up on the grass quite often you're hopelessly stuck and have to get another aircraft anyway.

[Yurgon]

I just read recently that "Anti Skid" makes things worse.

 

I tried a few landings on a short landing strip with and without it and it feels as if the runway length required was indeed less when Anti Skid was switched off. If this observation is correct, it's obviously not the intended behavior, though. :music_whistling:

[kk0425]

Anti skid is like anti lock for your brakes. You want that on as it allow better control when you are stopping especially during icy weather and it will reduce wear on the tires, reducing the chance of a blowout. Of course you shouldn't be needing to worry about runway distance if you land at the right speed anyway unless it's an emergency.

[ENO]

I just read recently that "Anti Skid" makes things worse.

 

I tried a few landings on a short landing strip with and without it and it feels as if the runway length required was indeed less when Anti Skid was switched off. If this observation is correct, it's obviously not the intended behavior, though. :music_whistling:

 

There had been a lot of talk back in the 1111 days that the runways were in a "wet" condition- whether they were wet or not. This reduced braking effectiveness and as you mention there was a lot of talk about turning it off... I'm pretty sure that never got fixed- and I don't turn it off personally but it could still work that way.

 

Another thing that has helped (me) is putting the flaps up immediately after you get your airbrakes deployed fully after wheels touch down.

[Rongor]

I wouldn't aim for an AI like performance. Suspecting the AI cheating the stopping distance down appears to be plausible.

[MTFDarkEagle]

Anti-skid = abs for cars.

 

The aim of this system is to keep the tyres rolling. This so you are always in control. Imagine you are in a car (without ABS) and you stamp on the brakes. The front wheels lock up. You can play jingle with your steering wheel, but the car is going in a straight line. If the car would be fitted with ABS, the system would prevent the front wheels from locking, and thus you still have control of your car. Downside of this is that it increases the stopping distance theoretically.

Same applies with aircraft.

Try it:

Land twice in the same conditions (approach speed, touchdownpoint), with and without antiskid. Plonk on full brakes and see where you stop.

[badger66]

yeah.. it's like riding a sled across the runway.. That said.. most difficult thing about the belly landing is trying to explain it to the crew chief and maintenance..

 

-Damien

 

Yes ..... baseball batting would be a good punishment for that !!!

[Yurgon]

Try it:

Land twice in the same conditions (approach speed, touchdownpoint), with and without antiskid. Plonk on full brakes and see where you stop.

 

Yeah, a series of tests seems to be a good idea at this point.

 

I created a simple mission, no wind, no external load, 75% fuel, 1150 rounds TP, inbound to Tbilisi Lochini, and then performed a series of touch and goes where I slowed down to 50 kts IAS and then a couple of full-stop landings.

 

I'm now certain that, at least in dry conditions, the stopping distance is considerably less when Anti-Skid is switched off, see attached screenshots. This was the best full-stop landing I could accomplish with Anti-Skid on. Just compare it to this where Anti-Skid was off. :thumbup:

 

It'll be interesting to see if others can verify these findings. I'm pretty certain my approaches weren't so different that they'd explain these variations.

[Derbysieger]

Interesting. I usually just roll out with minimal breaking so it doesn't really matter if anti skid is on or off. Depending on the aircrafts' weight and length of the runway I sometimes need no breaks at all to get down to ~20knots

[Mirtma]

Landing just few days ago. It was easier than I thought it would be.

 

 

 

Edited January 29, 2014 by Mirtma

[Nealius]

I need to remember to turn anti-skid off the next time I fly in extreme heat.

[Mirtma]

:-D

[Justin Case]

Even if I land at stall speed with full flaps, speedbreak and wheelbreaks, I cannot stop in less than half of a long runway in a normal wheels landing. The AI stop in about 200 feet or less.

-Pv-

AI performance is not realistic. The A-10 is capable of getting up and down on relatively short distances compared to other fighters (disregarding special cases like JA-37, JAS-39, Tornado etc)

So you can't expect it to come to a stop after 500 meters or so just because a light twin turboprop with reverersing capability might do so.

 

Your landings are probably great in regards to stopping distance! :)

[MTFDarkEagle]

Yeah, a series of tests seems to be a good idea at this point.

 

I created a simple mission, no wind, no external load, 75% fuel, 1150 rounds TP, inbound to Tbilisi Lochini, and then performed a series of touch and goes where I slowed down to 50 kts IAS and then a couple of full-stop landings.

 

I'm now certain that, at least in dry conditions, the stopping distance is considerably less when Anti-Skid is switched off, see attached screenshots. This was the best full-stop landing I could accomplish with Anti-Skid on. Just compare it to this where Anti-Skid was off. :thumbup:

 

It'll be interesting to see if others can verify these findings. I'm pretty certain my approaches weren't so different that they'd explain these variations.

 

Exactly! That is precisely the point. What antiskid does is when it detects the wheels are turning slower than the forward motion of the aircraft (I suppose with some threshold) it decreases some braking force on the brakepads to keep the wheels turning. The resulting consequence you just made visible :)

[Irregular programming]

Anti-skid should definitely be on at all times. There is no reason to ever turn it off.

[MTFDarkEagle]

Anti-skid should definitely be on at all times. There is no reason to ever turn it off.

 

True.

[camsr]

Landing just few days ago. It was easier than I thought it would be.

 

 

Maybe if you are landing on a giant piece of ice :lol:

God knows what would happen IRL, most likely a terrible accident.

 

Is this thread for real? Landing without wheels???

:flyover:

:helpsmilie:

[Vampyre]

What antiskid does is when it detects the wheels are turning slower than the forward motion of the aircraft (I suppose with some threshold) it decreases some braking force on the brakepads to keep the wheels turning. The resulting consequence you just made visible :)

 

Close... An antiskid system measures the speed of both main wheels and seeks to keep them spinning at the same speed. It will automatically apply brake pressure to the faster wheel to equalize the rotation with the slower wheel.

[Exorcet]

the system would prevent the front wheels from locking, and thus you still have control of your car. Downside of this is that it increases the stopping distance theoretically.

ABS should decrease stopping distance. Certainly if you're locking the tires without them. Tires generate max friction when rolling because static friction is greater than dynamic friction.

 

As for the AI landing, I'm pretty sure they use a simple model for that, so don't try to imitate it.

[Nealius]

Anti-skid should definitely be on at all times. There is no reason to ever turn it off.

 

....unless you are trying to land at Batumi in 40+ degree weather. I haven't tried with anti-skid off, but with anti-skid on you won't stop in time.

[ENO]

I'm now certain that, at least in dry conditions, the stopping distance is considerably less when Anti-Skid is switched off, see attached screenshots.

 

As I pointed out earlier- I think even "dry" conditions in the sim are programmed as "wet." Unless someone can confirm that got fixed?

 

It's not a big issue or anything and I'm not complaining- but it explains why the braking is a touch on the slushy side- anti skid on or off.

 

....unless you are trying to land at Batumi in 40+ degree weather. I haven't tried with anti-skid off, but with anti-skid on you won't stop in time.

 

Gelen was my nemesis... I used to end up in the water almost all the time. I found my approach speed was too fast and then combined that with a quick flap raise on touchdown. Perhaps not coincidentally I was also always coming in too steep so if I wasn't in the drink I was in the tire pits every single mission.

Edited January 30, 2014 by ENO