Sandman1330

Assuming you are not playing an April fools joke of your own, perhaps you should file an official complaint with ED? I believe I have found the correct form for your situation:

Perhaps theoretically, but I have yet to find someone who can fly it to the theoretical maximum while maintaining SA in the fight, managing the weapons, and keeping it under control. Look forward to testing it out with you this weekend! Perhaps you will prove me wrong. :smilewink:

Is it an E2? I have the same problem with Tomcats escorting an E2. I think it’s because the E2 flies too slow for the fighters. They still do the job of engaging incoming bandits though, so appearances aside, no big deal.

I don't know, I'm tempted to agree with him. In a purely WVR context, guns only and taking 9X/JHMCS out of the equation, even then I think the Hornet is superior in a knife fight. In my small server group, we do a fair bit of 1v1. Before the F14, Hornet v Hornet, I would consistently come out on top. Sometimes I'd even jump in the Harrier for a lark, and usually still won against the other guys in the Hornet. I just have a lot more experience doing it than they do. Then I jumped in the 14, and they (in the Hornet) soundly whooped me, I mean bad! That being said, I've always performed better in turn fighters - I really took to the Spitfire over the Mustang, for example. It is probably just my style of flying, but even after quite a bit of time in the Tomcat, I still prefer the Hornet.

The only thing that I will miss about the Rift is using the touch controllers in DCS. I’ve gotten used to having one by each hand to grab and manipulate switches, much more convenient. My understanding is that DCS doesn’t support WMR controllers yet, so it’ll be back to trying to hold my head steady to click that tiny switch with the mouse. Worth it for the resolution though, I think.

I hear ya man, I just don’t want to waste the energy debating on a forum about it, I’d rather just go play the game :joystick: I think your arguments are all well thought out and make sense though. I don’t pull the wings off often, but if I do it is usually during a prolonged turn with an insidious increase in airspeed, like coming over the top slow and pulling out of the dive. Your eyes are out on the bandit, holding light buffet, and airspeed is increasing faster than you realize. Without the feel of the increasing G in the seat, the sound of the air rushing, etc - you don’t realize your G is increasing until the wings snap. G-LOC should be kicking in during this kind of sustained turn and progressive G increase, but I’ve hit enough G doing this without the grey out cues to snap the wings. I’m all for the 5-6G “grunt”

Haha, I just give up ;) Agree to disagree. I guess I’m just used to certain sensations that first need to be unlearned before I can learn the new ones. It was the same in the Huey, I have thousands of hours in helicopters but the Huey kicked my ass initially until I got used to not having the seat of the pants feel I am used to.

By that logic, the same standard needs to be applied to all missiles. The AIM9X has either a 0% or 50% success rate, depending on whether turkey used a 9X in their shootdown or not. I don’t have stats for other missiles, but this extreme example illustrates the folly of relying on such small sample size.

“Lack of practice” is not the real answer, even if it does seem to have become the popular one. In a real aircraft, you feel the G - I mean, really feel it. When you pull 9G, you friggin know it. I think the max I’ve pulled is 6 or so, and that is enough to really feel it (though that was without a G suit). Now, this is a double edged sword - on the one hand, it makes over G a lot less likely because you have the feel for how much you are pulling. Entering a 4G pull for a loop, I would make the initial pull with my eyes outside to what felt like about 4G, then glance inside at the G meter to verify - and usually would be within 0.5G. If I was dogfighting, I probably would not be looking at the G meter, unless it’s after the fight to confirm if I over G’d the machine. On the other hand, it makes EVERYTHING ELSE a lot harder. Looking at your 6 o’clock while pulling 6G? Good luck. Even simple things like reaching for a switch on the panel in front of you become a lot harder, your hand and arm weigh 6x their normal weight! In DCS, we don’t get the advantage of the feel, but we also don’t get the disadvantages either. As other players or the AI also don’t get the disadvantage, that part balances out. However, not having the G feel is huge. It means you are fighting an airplane that requires you to fly by feel with one hand tied behind your back. Buffet cueing is for AoA; I can pull 10G at low AoA if I’m fast enough, and max out at 4G at just below stall AoA if I’m slow enough. Buffet in game is not a reliable indicator of G. Now, player tomcat vs player tomcat this all evens out as both players have the same disadvantages. However, against AI, or worse, another player in a simulated FBW machine like the Hornet, and you are at a major disadvantage. As has been said numerous times, you need to feel this airplane, while you don’t near as much with other modules. We are held to real world limitations (as we should be) but we are not getting all the information a real pilot would have to stay within those limits. This is why it is so hard to do. Perhaps it would not be so bad to have some kind of auditory indication, above and beyond the breathing sound. Something that scales, from breathing at 4-6 G to audible G-straining from 7-9, and jester crying above 9 (I joke, but you get the idea). To simply say one needs more practice oversimplifies the topic. Yes, we all need more practice - but we also are not getting all the feedback we need to fight this plane realistically!

Had an epiphany today (I know, I’m as surprised as you are) Do the wings rip off if you overspeed them, ie exceed the CADC schedule and go too fast without sweeping the wing back? The only way to do this would be to put them in emergency mode, except... today’s update corrects the problem where they would not sweep if over 5g. In my tacview file above, I was at 9.3g - but accelerating as I was pulling out of a dive when the wings snapped. If the auto sweep was not working properly, it’s very possible they snapped off due to overspeed rather than over G... correct? 9.3 shouldn’t be enough to snap the wings, but would be enough to trigger the wing sweep bug. I’m not at home till Friday to test, but perhaps we will see an improvement today. Or perhaps I will continue to be a ham fisted monkey! (Or both)

Thx. I’m the one who wanted to keep this civil, just rubbed me the wrong way. I should know better than to get provoked by strangers on the internet! :pilotfly:

Oh, so the years of military flight training I did in the T-6 Texan II, flying close formation in 120* wingover turns, and you’re one to talk? I qualified and was asked to go into the fighter community but chose to go the helicopter route instead for family and posting location reasons. And BTW, I can hold close form - I do it every day in real life. Oh, I can do it in a video game too. I do know something about this stuff. Thats me on the wing.

The fuel imbalance was to provide both with roughly the same max endurance at burner. Because of the cats higher fuel flow, it required more fuel. So in one metric, this is a fair comparison, no? In honesty, I’d forgotten the mission was set up that way. I’m interested to try with full bags on the hornet, as that is 5000lbs, or 10xMK82 worth of extra weight!

We tried it guns only - same people flying, same result. First time he ever got me in a guns kill :music_whistling: He was thrilled, I was not haha

Within visual range - Air combat manoeuvring. “Dogfighting” *insert Viper gif that I can’t get to work here*

Oh really? Didn’t know that, thanks!

F14 is currently bugged, you need to tell jester no talking for the time being, it’s been acknowledged in the F14 forum.

Good points, and generally about how I feel. I too love this airplane, and this module. I’m just perhaps a bit disappointed in the performance of the aircraft, maybe I unrealistically expected too much. As for bugging out, I’ve tried it against hornets when I just couldn’t get the advantage - while I was able to outrun the aircraft, I couldn’t outrun his AIM9X :lol: (though once or twice I was actually able to do that - this plane is fast!) Even going vertical, the Hornet manages to keep up, which surprised me as well. I should clarify - in the setups we’ve tried, it’s been 2 AIM9 each, full fuel for the Tomcat and just over half for the hornet, which seems to give about the same endurance at burner.

Haha, I remember that thread. It quickly devolved into arguments and performance charts. It was also before we had the module in hand. I’m looking to discuss people’s thoughts, now that we have the module in hand and some time in it.

OK folks, I'm curious. First of all, this is a fantastic module, wonderfully built and I have no doubt a fantastic representation of the real thing. But I'm going to put it out there and be honest: I don't think the Tomcat is a very good WVR/BFM fighter against the DCS contemporaries (Mig-29, F-15C, F/A-18C). I've put in quite a bit of time doing 1v1 type fights in the Tomcat since it's been released. I've got basic handling down quite well - I still rip my wings off every now and then when I get overzealous, but otherwise I keep her under control, make her turn the way I want to at high alpha, and just generally handle fairly well. However, against other similarly skilled human players in primarily Hornets, I still can't keep up. The Hornet and Mig29 have a much tighter turn radius and nose authority, so 1-circle fights are over before the first 180*. I thought she'd fair much better in the 2 circle, but it seems that even the Hornet can out rate her in sustained turns. It takes several revolutions, but each turn the Hornet gains a few more degrees. We have a really small server community, so we know each other really well. In the Hornet, so far I've managed to win the vast majority of our 1v1, and even 2v1 fights. But these same guys eat me for breakfast when I jump in a Tomcat (they stay in a Hornet). Same skill levels, different airframes. So what I'm curious to know is, what are other's experiences? Is there anyone out there who's consistently managed to best the Hornet / Mig29 flown by closely matched human players? I think the Tomcat would fare much better against human flown Mig23/25 (more it's contemporaries, unless we step up to the F14D) if we had them. Discuss! (hopefully we can keep it civil!)

That does seem a bit excessive, but I’m so used to mirrors dropping FPS that I don’t think much about it. I go from 45 to 20-30 in PG when I turns mirrors on in the Tomcat.

Mirrors are a huge FPS drop. They look cool but I leave them off mostly. This isn’t limited to the Tomcat but it seems especially bad, perhaps because the Tomcats mirrors are simulated so well!

F-14B vs F-14B, this is all good stuff. Hornet vs Hornet, I typically devour the other guys in my server (there are only 4 of us and we know each other’s skill levels quite well). Putting them in the Hornet and me in the F14, I can’t touch them. I can beat pretty much any AI aircraft, but against even half decent human players in the Hornet, the Tomcat really seems to be at a disadvantage WVR. I expected the Tomcat to own the 2 circle rate fight against a Hornet, but surprisingly not - holding 350kts in a 2 circle, the hornet slowly gained angles. After a few turns, I try to bug out and use the tomcats speed, but it’s not quite fast enough to outrun the 9X :pilotfly: More practice and time may help, but we are fairly mismatched in skill and I still get my butt kicked :)

Hadn’t heard about that one. The 2017 SU24 shootdown in Syria was advertised as the first use in combat (where the missile failed). First US use in combat I guess, or perhaps Wikipedia is wrong too, unless there are corroborating sources. So that makes it 50% success in combat! I’m not arguing that the 9X is a bad missile, just that combat is not the same as testing conditions. The 9X is a beast in DCS, so is the Phoenix. Both have cases in real life where the missile failed. Doesn’t make either one over cooked in DCS.

Might be a rollback to fix the F14 Jester CTDs.