Are there too many WWII aircraft being planned for DCS?

[Cobra847]

IMHO, WWII Birds are just as Complex,

 

Minus the Flight Controller Logic of the Fly By Wire/Assisted System, you're just replacing complex electrical/computer/software driven systems with Hydraulic and steam driven systems, which can be just as complex to code.

 

True to an extent.

 

Some of the most complex systems in modern aircraft are the weapons related systems and logic. Radar, RWR, gunsights, etc. There are more though; Autopilot for example took us quite a while to do.

[cichlidfan]

IMHO, WWII Birds are just as Complex,

 

Minus the Flight Controller Logic of the Fly By Wire/Assisted System, you're just replacing complex electrical/computer/software driven systems with Hydraulic and steam driven systems, which can be just as complex to code.

 

Ells appears to disagree.

[SkateZilla]

Ells appears to disagree.

 

That was just my assumption/opinion, as I RARELY code anything systems wise...

 

so I'm not 100% correct in anything I said.

[NineLine]

True to an extent.

 

Some of the most complex systems in modern aircraft are the weapons related systems and logic. Radar, RWR, gunsights, etc. There are more though; Autopilot for example took us quite a while to do.

 

Well I think where WWII aircraft make up for the lack of complexity is in the quality of information, finding it can be a huge undertaking... If you think there is enough out on the internet, you are in for a rude awakening... I blame Yo-Yo for my addiction to micro-film scanning now :)

 

Oh and none of the 3 options are what I would have picked... I would have voted for No, not too many, BUT we need to see some more modern stuff as well....

[Eddie]

I don't have any issue with WWII era aircraft being produced per se, given that I have zero interest in them they are utterly irrelevant to me. If a developer comes along to make WWII era aircraft or associated products then again it's irrelevant as they wouldn't have made a modern aircraft anyway so there is nothing lost there.

 

The concern is if developers start to go down the WWII route instead of something else.

 

This idea of one sim for everything is all well and good, but, DCS can't even do a good job of truly simulating modern air combat (a great flight model for a plane and being able to click buttons etc. is not representative of air combat). Simply adding more and more aircraft won't solve that issue. Without fundamental changes and much work on the basics such as AI for aircraft that can actually fly an aircraft correctly and operate in a believable manner in combat, ATC/AWACS functionality (with AI interacting the same as players) and numerous other parts of the modern battlefield (and also the 1940's/50's/60's......) there will always be massive holes that just adding extra aircraft cannot fill.

 

Now I'm sure there is desire to correct these deficiencies, I'm just not sure there is enough of it, or that they will be corrected fast enough given my previous experience and interactions around here.

 

But only time will tell.

[NineLine]

Great points Eddie, this cant be understated... I need to see how well DCS WWII is going to simulate WWII, alot of things need to be altered from the core game to get there, I love the P-51D, but I will love it more when I dont have modern day comms, and units, among other things...

 

I don't have any issue with WWII era aircraft being produced per se, given that I have zero interest in them they are utterly irrelevant to me. If a developer comes along to make WWII era aircraft or associated products then again it's irrelevant as they wouldn't have made a modern aircraft anyway so there is nothing lost there.

 

The concern is if developers start to go down the WWII route instead of something else.

 

This idea of one sim for everything is all well and good, but, DCS can't even do a good job of truly simulating modern air combat (a great flight model for a plane and being able to click buttons etc. is not representative of air combat). Simply adding more and more aircraft won't solve that issue. Without fundamental changes and much work on the basics such as AI for aircraft that can actually fly an aircraft correctly and operate in a believable manner in combat, ATC/AWACS functionality (with AI interacting the same as players) and numerous other parts of the modern battlefield (and also the 1940's/50's/60's......) there will always be massive holes that just adding extra aircraft cannot fill.

 

Now I'm sure there is desire to correct these deficiencies, I'm just not sure there is enough of it, or that they will be corrected fast enough given my previous experience and interactions around here.

 

But only time will tell.

[Isegrim]

I didnt Vote caused by missing the Helicopter Option :)

[Abburo]

I get into DCS because I was searching for that feeling to fly a plane. I found great flight dynamics even is a CAS jet or a helicopter, or a Mustang. WW2 era planes offers best feedback (force feedback) and for this reason, as long as the companies will not redo other companies planes then everything is just perfect. Here is needed a mediator and ED can have this role for sure.

 

WW2 era planes offers that "up, close and personal" thing that is imposible to be obtain in jets. Please don't get me wrong, jets have their part of fun and they need by far deeper knowledges to fly them.

 

From my point of view even WW1 era planes are welcome to come. If you, that are reading this know don't like them, I am quite sure that there are other people who can and will enjoy them. More over, let the train sim come to DCS, or even truck simulators and not ultimately a panzer simulator. All those sims are already in the market, but how many of them have the simulation feeling that DCS is offering? Exclude any arcade games....

 

If WW2 planes are required to raise founds to have other new complex vehicles/planes then this is only an win-win situation. Let's respect this decision and give them all our support. If you are not interested then just ignore it, but don't try to express fears about "what if".

 

If you like wonders take a look to that 42 millions joke ... the space sim phenomenon :). But is not the case for DCS, by contrary they are not talking too much, but they creating a lot, at least in the last year as I was arround.

 

Does somebody think to create modules for soldiers? One module for a sniper, another for a rifleman and so on? Why not ... on other productions they are selling even fishtanks.... the fishes are sold separately :)... now let's ask those fishes if they respect newtonians laws? :D. So, a soldier module surely will have more good-sense.

 

Shortly, let's hail any new and not-redundant content that are coming to DCS. Buy it if you like, ignore it if you are not interested in it - simple as that!

[Scoggs]

I meant to vote that there would are too many. But I guess what is planned currently is fine. But I would support DCS either way as long as the Hornet comes out. And it would be amusing to fly the Hornet in a gang of WW2 planes.

[Suchacz]

Props?

:doh:

Jets?

:cry:

Choppers?

:thumbup::v::beer::cheer3nc::punk::thumbsup:

 

Edited May 2, 2014 by Suchacz

[USARStarkey]

1. Most of the WW2 sims out there right now are downright ancient.

 

2. As an example, Flying the P-51 in DCS is nothing like flying it in other sims. The level of fidelity results in a totally new experience. This alone makes me really excited to see the new WW2 fighters coming out. Its hardly something to yawn over.

 

3. To reiterate, this is WW2 on a totally different level. I find it hard to play older sims like il2 after DCS P-51. By comparison, the older games feel like junk.

 

4. I hope the P-38 in the background of leathernecks page is a form of foreshadowing. I;d give all my duckets for a P-38 L or J-25 LO. 2 engines is more fun than one!

[Ells228]

Exactly Cobra, I didn't mean for it to come across as a cash cow, I was eluding more to the simpler systems like you said and the timeframes to develop them.

Whilst modern jets are my love, Warbirds are Pman's elixir and he loves them so much.

 

I also agree with Eddie in terms of the sim, but if it's one thing I've learnt developing for DCS it's that anything can be done within the sim and as a developer I want to make that "atmosphere of the era" as realistic as possible.

So if that's searchlights as an example then I'd take on that responsibility within my era pack. Not expect ED to do that.

Granted some things will need their help backend I'm sure.

 

Just putting WWII aircraft into the current map doesn't do it for me.

[Cowboy10uk]

I'll complain when there's DCS WWI: the great turtle race.

 

 

 

I wouldn't, there is a place in DCS for every era. I love rise of flight, but sadly it does appear to have been abandoned apart from the odd sale now and again, which is useless when there is nothing left to buy. :(

 

As to the question at hand, while I agree there does appear to be an awful lot of development taking place for WW2 aircraft at the moment, in our genre can we ever have enough aircraft. Surely we are all here because we share a passion for flight, what does it matter if we are flying a micro light or a fast jet. It's the feeling and simulation of flight that is important.

 

Yes we all have prefences and I certainly will agree that we desperately need some high fidelity fast jet fun to come our way. ( although I know they are in development, and I'm hoping DCS F18 will scratch this itch. )

 

If we take the title of our favorate sim, it stands for Digital Combat Simulation.

 

Now that means that it has an opportunity to cover the entire history of aerial combat and every type of aircraft involved. From WW1, WW2, Korea, Vietnam, Falklands, Gulf 1 and 2, and of course Fighters, Bombers, Recon, Support, Helicopters etc.

 

All I ask that we also get the correct maps to cover these periods, rather than just sticking different era aircraft into the same map, which is of courses what we currently have, but again we know different maps are in production.

 

The idea of selling the aircraft as modules that slot into this system is fantastic, as it means we can all choose which ones we buy and which era we want. ( of course I know most of us are addicts so buy everything anyway. )

 

At the moment, yes it does appear that WW2 is getting the love, but in a few years who knows, it we may get a load of fast jets, or Support aircraft, Early jets, WW1 aircraft, whatever happens it's an exciting time.

 

I just hope DCS understands the potential they currently have here and don't drop the ball.

 

DCS World, has the potential of a one stop sim that will meet all our flight combat needs. Although as Eddie points out above, there are still a number of issues that needs to be addressed first.

 

I truely hope DCS has a very very long and varied future, I for one am planning to purchase every damn high fidelity module that turns up. Including fast jets and WW2, and I'm a Rotary guy at heart. ;)

 

Cowboy10uk

Edited May 3, 2014 by Cowboy10uk

[msalama]

I'll refrain from voting since there's no helicopter option. That said however:

 

First and foremost, the thing I'm really passionate about in this sim at the moment is the Hind BST is said to start developing in 2015 - and to me, everything else is secondary to that. However, the _second_ most interesting thing for me would be a DCS-level (PFM & ASM) multiengine WW2-era attack AC released with a contemporary theater, map and AI units pack, and I'm sure I'd pay good money for that as well. But fighters, historical or modern, just aren't my cup of tea really, and while I'd gladly buy any hi-fi fast movers or prop AC (bought the Stang too) for support and/or an occasional spin, my real interests still lay elsewhere. And while I do understand why folks are itching to get their hands on a properly modelled fighter, be it modern or a warbird - and also fully realize developing those is indeed a high priority - I still can't help but wish something else was developed first since my personal tastes so dictate ;)

 

But still, I'm willing to buy almost anything out of curiosity, provided that the level is PFM / ASM (or comparable). So maybe you could actually characterize me as a GOOD CUSTOMER then??? :D

Edited May 3, 2014 by msalama

[Slipp]

I don't think there are too many WW2 planes coming. DCS needs to expand on WW2 front with maps and planes so that it becomes a viable gameplay option and not just outdated prop planes flying over modern Georgia and Nevada.

 

The real problem, IMHO, is with modern fast jet projects. They all seem to be like myths and legends. Vaporware.

 

"So-and-so jet is totally coming guys, like for real. But you'll have to wait for at least a year before we can tell you anything more besides that it's coming."

 

 

 

*Mig-21 excluded since it's not modern and seems to be close to completion

[Cowboy10uk]

Don't forget about the Hawk Slipp. ;)

 

But yes I know what you mean, we have had lots of promises with the modern fast jets but very little results. Hell I do t really know which ones are still valid and which have been cancelled.

 

I'm still keeping my fingers crossed though that the vast majority will still turn up especially the Harrier that was mentioned a while ago.

 

Cowboy10uk

[9.JG27 DavidRed]

i personally have a deep passion for WWII planes.i just love them.

people who say, that if they want to fly wwii planes they just use other sims and therefore dcs should focus on modern stuff, dont really seem to be interested in wwii planes at all...for me thats just an excuse or an attempt to support their point of why dcs should model only modern jets...i think, there was never a sim before, and it doesnt look like there will be any other sim which is modeling wwii planes on such a high level of detail as dcs is doing with currently the p51 and hopefully very soon a whole stable of other warbirds.so all the other wwii "sims" dont do it anymore after you have flown the p51.at least thats the case for me...i prefer the single warbird here in dcs than the 200available warbirds in 1946 or the dozen in cliffs of dover, and that even though there is not even an environment for that single plane, because the level of detail, the fidelity, is astounding.its the only sim where you really have the feel of flight.

 

now i will also support and fly modern jets.or pretty much every plane which will be modeled on dcs standards.heck i would buy a cessna if its done with the high fidelity as the p51 or a10c.

i think, the more planes, regardless which ones, the better for all of us.it will just mean, more success for the company, more players interested in this fantastic platform, more money to invest in bigger projects like a high fidelity F18.

of course, from my position its easy to say so, because i love the fact that they are doing wwii stuff, but i think also for the guys who really only want to fly modern jets, that this is a good thing for them in the end.

 

EDIT: "and now LNS also develops half a dozend WW2 era a/c?"

where is that news from?

[joey45]

Some of their backdrops on their website has WW2 planes.

[Flagrum]

EDIT: "and now LNS also develops half a dozend WW2 era a/c?"

where is that news from?

That is not "news", that was a scenario based on speculations/rumors that came up in the LNS website announcement thread. The scenario was: RRG is developing several WWII aircrafts, VEAO also announced that they will develop several WWII aircrafts and in that thread I mentioned, it looked if it was possible that LNS plans also include several WWII aircrafts.

 

I have nothing against WWII aircrafts - they just don't interest me as much as more modern stuff. I have also no problem with it if DCS gets half a dozend or a full dozend of WWII aircrafts. But what would disturb me is, if this trend would continue and every other 3rd party dev now would jump the WWII train, too - like if the rumors were true that LNS also wants to make those. Why? Because the manpower invested in those, I'd rather see shared a bit more equally on more modern stuff.

[Rapier-VCG-]

I don't believe the further introduction of WW2 aircraft to the DCS World database is going to hurt the platform. But will appeal to a larger group increasing the overall revenue available to groups creating new modules. Giventhe possibility of new theaters coming online in the future.

Bottom is like anything though, if you don't want it, don't buy the module, or create missions with that element included.

[MBot]

I don't think anyone could possibly have a problem with surplus WWII platforms being added to DCS. The question is rather, are these 3rd party (sub-)teams either doing a WWII plane or nothing, or is the WWII plane done instead of another era aircraft?

[Cowboy10uk]

I may be wrong Mbot, but I think the main reason these 3rd party company's are currently doing WW2 aircraft is to learn the programming and coding needed to develop high fidelity aircraft in DCS.

 

If we think about it, it has to be easier to learn about the coding the sim uses by developing a less sophisticated aircraft than a modern day one with all it's electronics.

a case of walking before you can run say to speak.

 

Now I'm not saying coding or programming a WW2 aircraft is any less intense or difficult than doing a modern day one, but we have to admit, there are a lot less systems to worry about.

 

I'm sure this is just the tip of the iceberg, they cut their teeth on WW2 aircraft before ramping up the stakes and producing some of the best high fidelity modern aircraft we have ever seen.

 

Of course, I could be completely wrong and the reason is they just like WW2 aircraft. ;)

 

Cowboy10uk

[Isegrim]

Thats the most Stupid Poll in the History of ED i think.

[Raven68]

The real problem, IMHO, is with modern fast jet projects. They all seem to be like myths and legends.

 

^THIS^

 

But yes I know what you mean, we have had lots of promises with the modern fast jets but very little results. Hell I do t really know which ones are still valid and which have been cancelled.

 

^AND THIS^

 

Perhaps if there were more deliveries on this front but then again I guess we are still considered young in the 3rd party venture.

[Raven68]

Thats the most Stupid Poll in the History of ED i think.

 

Why is it stupid? People are responding and sharing their thoughts on the matter. Are the people responding to the pole considered stupid as well? If so then I consider myself in good company!! :P