Model Scaling and Visibilty

[superostrich]

either way... the threats of "holding one's breath until they have achieved their way" usually just leaves them blue in the face - just ask any parent :)

 

I'm not interested in an internet cat-fight. Just stating my opinion on what I feel is a major problem with DCS, and something that will affect my future purchasing decisions.

[winz]

luminance comes from more a 3D (in a 3D vision, as opposed 3D projected onto a 2D screen) environment... not an artificially bland background and Airfix model like object lighting

No, luminance comes into play with every bright object. There is only so much cd/m2 your monitor can push (and that's only for pure white), and that number is much lower than what a reflecting surface can have on a bright day.

Basically, it's is very hard for a computer monitor to trully display a bright reflective surface because IRL the luminance of that surface is much higher than it's surrounding, that's why it catches yours eyes attention. Not to mention that contrast is one of the weaknesses of LCDs in general.

 

It also plays a big role in night, where the luminance of every light source makes them easily spotable from a very big distance. Once again, this is something that is very hard to do with monitors. You'll not be able to spot a plane with navigational lights from 15+nm in sim, while irl it's pretty easy.

[Wolf Rider]

well, you http://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=1670989&postcount=58 just keep holding your breath superostrich...

 

 

Thor...

 

there is a perfectly good "example" video posted, and what - you haven't bothered to view it/ it doesn't fit with your argument?... what is your point?

is your "point" you just want a gimmick??

 

Winz...

 

The "problems" with current technology have been pointed out many many times... yes, even by me - do you have something new to offer?

Edited April 23, 2015 by Wolf Rider

[superostrich]

well, you just keep holding your breath superostrich...

 

Judging by that poll, I'm not the only one who will be.

[Wolf Rider]

you left the link out ;)

[skendzie]

Judging by that poll, I'm not the only one who will be.

 

Dude, this guy lives on this board and trolls everyone who disagrees with him. Just ignore him. Thanks for voicing your opinion.

[shagrat]

Dear Wolf Rider,

now, that the discussion morphs into a pissing contest, I politely excuse myself. I think I voiced my thoughts in detail, already.

More important issues in my life to attend to for now.

[Ultra]

I think this thread has accomplished its objectives. It has shown to the devs the weight of concern placed on proper spotting by the community.

 

So even though there's plenty of arguing, good job everybody, ;) you made a ruckus :D

Thanks for starting the poll skendzie.

[NineLine]

I think this thread has accomplished its objectives. It has shown to the devs the weight of concern placed on proper spotting by the community.

 

So even though there's plenty of arguing, good job everybody, ;) you made a ruckus :D

Thanks for starting the poll skendzie.

 

Yes, and with that, I think I will close this thread as its just turned into mostly fighting and little new insight....

[iLOVEwindmills]

What I am curious about is the visibility of aircraft at slightly longer distances. Has there been any reported improvements on this in the new engine?

 

Moving over to DCS from WW2 sims this is my single biggest issue with the current engine. Finding enemy aircraft without knowing exactly where to look + zoom feels like a near impossibility.

 

Now in the Su27 or F15 that is one thing, but in aircraft like the Mig21 it is extremely problematic. I don't even want to imagine what the WW2 planes are like right now in this regard.

[JayPee]

A topic on scaling of aircraft (and maybe even ground units, can't recall) has already been made and no official respone has been given in that topic. Also, it is not on the official feature list for DCS 2. I think you know what that means, for now...

[shagrat]

Well, actually we all hope DCS 2.0 will solve the distance issue without scaling tricks etc. We don't know yet how EDGE will model LOD and distance, so we need to see what we get, first.

If EDGE does not improve the issue with spotting, that particular thread had a bunch of good ideas, to handle the problem... But we can't tell, until EDGE is out.

[OnlyforDCS]

Will spotting be improved in 1.5?

 

Oh yes! It was covered in one of the early live streams that Wags did, but basically a new option will be added to the menu called "Vehicle Icons". You will be offered to choose, "none" (which is how it is now), "normal" and "enlarged".

 

"Normal" and "Enlarged" will replace 3d objects (planes, vehicles, etc.) at a certain distance with specific icons which from what Ive seen from the streams look very good and can be seen much, much further away.

 

It's a very elegant solution and KUDOS to ED for implementing it. :thumbup:

[PiedDroit]

It is not a cheat when everybody can have it, depending on the server settings.

 

I would consider it cheat if everyone was flying with "normal" setting while somebody would enable "enlarged" only for himself.

Hello, this is a very interesting debate, as some options can be considered cheats when they are mean to even the game.

 

For example, removing the grass in arma 3 could be considered unfair to other players because of the edge it gives, when this is mean for smaller configs to make the game playable.

The enlarged setting could be considered mandatory for Oculus users because they don't have the finer resolution that a monitor has.

In the old days (when every pixel counted lol), when everyone were limited to 800x600 (or worse), having one of the new, expensive 1024x768 or higher monitors was sometimes considered a "cheat" as it was giving an edge to those people.

 

IMO, stuff like automatic start, enlarged settings etc, should not be locked and categorized as hard cheats, instead they should stay open to everyone to use (except on ultra-competitive server maybe but I don't even know if they exist).

It may, or may not give some edge over those who don't use it.

 

I like the fact that the automatic start is available to anyone, as it allows people that don't want to go through the complex startup procedures to enjoy flyin gwith anyone else.

[joebloggs]

I've seen a lot of topics about people not been able to see objects at distance and now ED have done something about it. If people still want to fly at normal settings when enlarged gives them an advantage then that's up to them. I know what I'll be choosing though and it won't be normal settings if others are using enlarged.

 

Why would anyone want to use normal if enlarge looks better and gives you an advantage?

[grunf]

Since becoming aware of this new feature I have wondered which option will the closest to representing realism and if "Enlarged" might be considered a cheat. I suppose only a RL pilot would know for sure.

It's not a cheat. In MP everyone can use it, in SP we are now pretty much blind compared to AI (and to RL).

 

It's the feature I'm mostly looking for in 1.5 and hope it will work as intended.

[Joni]

I've seen a lot of topics about people not been able to see objects at distance and now ED have done something about it. If people still want to fly at normal settings when enlarged gives them an advantage then that's up to them. I know what I'll be choosing though and it won't be normal settings if others are using enlarged.

 

Why would anyone want to use normal if enlarge looks better and gives you an advantage?

 

 

Hi, in real life when flying our human eyes can see much further and much clearer than in a simulator and it applies to air-air and air-ground. Especially those of us who fly have perfect or near perfect vision.

 

 

:book:

[codefox]

Hi, in real life when flying our human eyes can see much further and much clearer than in a simulator and it applies to air-air and air-ground. Especially those of us who fly have perfect or near perfect vision.

 

 

:book:

 

That's why we got a zoom feature in DCS. :sorcerer:

[PiedDroit]

That's why we got a zoom feature in DCS. :sorcerer:

this topic has already been discussed, this is not the place to revive it.

The object visibily feature is needed and many people have asked for it (including me).

The topic raised is that people not willing to use it (like you I suppose since you dont seem to deem it necessary) might consider themselves at a disadvantage.

Edited September 4, 2015 by PiedDroit

[Pizzicato]

That's why we got a zoom feature in DCS. :sorcerer:

 

Yes and no. Zoom only "solves" the issue of seeing things at distance by introducing another issue in the form of drastically reduced FOV. The ideal solution is one that allows for a roughly real world FOV and a roughly real world ability to spot objects at distance, but that's not really technically feasible.

 

Since this is a highly subjective (and apparently highly contentious matter), the forthcoming suite of options seems like the best possible compromise in appeasing all sides of the discussion.

 

I'm looking forward to trying out the new options and seeing what they bring.

[vicx]

Since becoming aware of this new feature I have wondered which option will the closest to representing realism and if "Enlarged" might be considered a cheat. I suppose only a RL pilot would know for sure.

 

You had an entire 300+ post thread to argue about this in. Why you gotta bring it up again. I was glad when the conversation was done on this and it was decided to put into EDGE as an option.

 

Curious to me why you would want to call someone using this feature a cheat? In this community we got some people with small laptop size monitors and other people with 4K wall size monitors. Noone is running around calling people with big monitors cheats - instead they focused on 'more positive ways to improve the experience for people with average hardware.

 

Spotting is usability feature for people who have average hardware. People who have HUGE 4K monitors won't get any extra benefit from larger 'spots'. People who don't have HUGE 4K monitors get to spot something that would have been totally invisible to them before. If anything it brings a parity to the 'spotting' experience - "for everyone".

 

I'm gonna be on this like a broken record if I have to.

 

That's why we got a zoom feature in DCS. :sorcerer:

 

Sourcery :smilewink:

Edited September 4, 2015 by vicx

[Deezle]

I'm sure the visibility option will be controlled on the server side, just like labels and everything else. Why is this even a discussion?

[Joni]

That's why we got a zoom feature in DCS. :sorcerer:

 

Cant believe you actually said that.... :doh:

[SharpeXB]

I'm sure the visibility option will be controlled on the server side, just like labels and everything else. Why is this even a discussion?

I hope this "model display" option effect is so subtle that nobody will care if it's a server option or not. We really don't need more server restrictions in flight sims, there are so few players as it is. The way this effect seems, it's more like an "aid" than a "cheat". It's not as bold as an icon and won't be visible through your own aircraft. It's only going to aid in seeing very distant objects so I don't see why it would really matter in multiplayer. It's not any more of an "aid" than a 50" 4K monitor is. Or hopefully that's how it turns out.

[joebloggs]

Hi, in real life when flying our human eyes can see much further and much clearer than in a simulator and it applies to air-air and air-ground. Especially those of us who fly have perfect or near perfect vision.

 

 

:book:

 

I know this that's why I wrote that I'm pleased ED are making things more visible in 1.5. I think it's more of a cheat as it is now in DCS. Where someone can just pop up from nowhere without you seeing them and pepper your butt.

 

I'm really looking forward to 1.5 and some good dogfights.