Model Scaling and Visibilty

[Djent33]

How do you people visualise scaling?

Should an F-86 be the size of B-29 at some distance?

[PFunk1606688187]

Agreed. I think you can see aircraft a little better IRL, but not that much more.

 

People who have flown real airplanes that I've heard speak on the matter say its significantly better in real life, not a little.

 

Whats more any person who's ever lived near an airport can attest to how easy it is to see an airplane thats quite far away.

[PFunk1606688187]

^ Indeed. Some people seem to think that 4K will magically solve this problem.

 

I don't think they truly understand how remarkably poorly we can see in sims when not zooming to max.

[OnlyforDCS]

I rarely vote in these polls, but I did vote here. I love DCS because it has the kind of fidelity that can't be found anywhere else. With that said I feel that visibility issues are something that definitely needs to be addressed by the devs. Voted "Extremely Important".

[ttaylor0024]

Maybe a better rendering solution, and it will probably all improve when 4k gets more used. But I find it dumb, to make an object LARGER at a distance just so YOU can see it better which imo is just another selfish thought.... smh

 

I find it good as it is now, and yes, it is challenging but its not that bad...... Maybe, you need top vision to join the air force irl for a reason?? ;)

 

I'm an IRL pilot with 20/10 vision (twice as good as minimums to become a fighter pilot). Aircraft scaling is so incredibly unrealistic in this sim, and is nearly gamebreaking for WWII and Korean war aircraft. To compensate for the awful scaling we instead use unrealistic AWACS instead?

 

It's easier to see a cessna 172 10 miles away IRL than it is to see a P-51 at 1nm in this sim.

[McBlemmen]

. But I find it dumb, to make an object LARGER at a distance just so YOU can see it better which imo is just another selfish thought.... smh

 

That's funny , becouse i find it dumb we can't see stuff that would be clearly visible in real life.

[CoBlue]

Voted Extremely Important

This should be nr:1 priority for ED with so many WVR needing airplanes.

Sadly even with EDGE there's no sign that this will be addressed....why is beyond my comprehension....? If CoD & BOS can fix it, so should ED IMO!

You can use scaling or reflections.

I've stopped buying WVR airplanes in DCS as I find the non-visibility issue pretty boring & annoying for dogfighting in multilayer or AI.

It takes away the essence of dogfighting!

Also many WWII players are jumping to other platforms because of this!

Edited March 24, 2015 by CoBlue

[javelina1]

agree, extremely important! :thumbup:

[BitMaster]

I can see a C-5 as far away as, I dunno, VERY FAR AWAY...and I can see the Fighter Jets as far away as 8km+ as they have contrails and still climb with AB.

 

I can see a C-5 or C-17 with Landing Lights over K-town which is at least 9km line of sight away.

 

I can spot choppers and tell them by name, that clear they are, if they are 3km away, opposite mountain ridge.

 

In DCS it just plain simply doesnt work !

 

For this reason I am a ground pounder, SEAD Pilot and what not else but dont like Close Air Combat, I just freaking loose track too quick, not because I am too stupid, I know where they are, have to be, look at them and still dont see them until I may see black smoke or something moving. I still dont know if it is the same plane or some totally different type until I am pretty close.

[McBlemmen]

This needs to change with EDGE... it is the perfect time...

 

I fear if this wont get adressed in EDGE it never will.. :(

 

I feel like a damn spammer becouse i've been brining this up multiple times in multiple threads but i cant be the only one who realises just how important this is!! We ened to write a letter to the devs or something... or anything to get the devs to acknowledge this problem

 

If scaling gets added they will instantly earn like 200 euros from me in WW2 and korea related sales and i'm sure i'm not the only one staying away from those jets for this very reason.

 

pls dont ban me

Edited March 24, 2015 by McBlemmen

[WildBillKelsoe]

Uber-Ultra-extremely-unequivocally important. Applies to SAM launchers too.

[ttaylor0024]

I feel like a damn spammer becouse i've been brining this up multiple times in multiple threads but i cant be the only one who realises just how important this is!! We ened to write a letter to the devs or something... or anything to get the devs to acknowledge this problem

 

You're not. I've been saying this since the P-51 came out. I bought the BF-109 only to go play Aces High because I can actually find aircraft there. Graphics don't mean anything if you can't employ the aircraft in the first place

[DayGlow]

I remember the sim Mig Alley had an interesting way of dealing with visibility, aircraft had a shimmer at a distance

 

${1}

 

Now I think a much subtler effect could be used to draw your eye to an aircraft in a modern sim.

[chris2525]

Extremely important. It's how you reconcile a 360° environment with a monitor size view-port. In some cases, you need to widen the field of view to see enough of the environment, in other cases you have to narrow the field of view to see things at a realistic scale.

[OnlyforDCS]

I have been staying away from multiplayer for this reason alone. Would really love to dive in with the P51 but Im having difficutly with just spotting the AI FW190 in a dogfight. Turning off AA makes things slightly better, seems like I can spot a moving smudge on the screen and reaquire them within 1 nm, but outside of that distance at low level and against the background of the map, good luck finding anything before it starts shooting at you.

[McBlemmen]

I have been staying away from multiplayer for this reason alone. Would really love to dive in with the P51 but Im having difficutly with just spotting the AI FW190 in a dogfight. Turning off AA makes things slightly better, seems like I can spot a moving smudge on the screen and reaquire them within 1 nm, but outside of that distance at low level and against the background of the map, good luck finding anything before it starts shooting at you.

 

I have the same problem in the F15 (well , any FC3 jet)

 

I've had moments where i merged with a bandit , tracked him visually , and just suddenly lose him even though i'm staring right at him. Forget about looking at the hud or anywhere else and then trying to re-acquire him , that's a lost cause all together.

 

I get that this is something you (kind of) get used to if you play enough , but it shouldnt be the case.

 

I'm fine with ground units being hard to spot becouse in real life they're camouflaged and whatnot , and just generally not as "dumb" as in DCS , but in A/A it kills the game experience for me.

[[DBS]TH0R]

Extremely Important.

[Nooch]

I'm an IRL pilot with 20/10 vision (twice as good as minimums to become a fighter pilot)

 

How is it even possible? Are you a robohuman of some kind? I have 12/10 and already consider myself very lucky. :D

[Mordhar]

Object scaling is not a game simplification, but the way to make sim more realistic.

In real life, atmospheric air has “lens effect” which becomes more prominent with distance. Current rendering system does not account for optical properties of air, effectively simulating outer space vacuum, not Earth atmosphere.

[ironmarc]

I have been staying away from multiplayer for this reason alone. Would really love to dive in with the P51 but Im having difficutly with just spotting the AI FW190 in a dogfight. Turning off AA makes things slightly better, seems like I can spot a moving smudge on the screen and reaquire them within 1 nm, but outside of that distance at low level and against the background of the map, good luck finding anything before it starts shooting at you.

 

But that issue counts for everyone doesn't it? Not a reason to shy away from multiplayer if you really want to dive in it.

 

I'm not sure, but the AI might actually be better at spotting than a player, for the fact that it must have a determined range when if it's cone of vision that when it is pointed at the direction of a target, it will automatically spot it. It doesn't actually have to "find" anything and it can't get distracted and it won't be fooled by the background.

[Rogue Trooper]

The world war II WVR fighters make scaling very important as we simply cannot reproduce the scale of real life objects with our monitors.

Same for jets.

 

But if I am a chopper pilot hiding from air superiority jets, will scaling make my chopper bigger than the house I am hiding behind?

[Fixxxer46]

Voted Extremely Important.

 

I've had planes disappear just before my eyes!

 

But if I am a chopper pilot hiding from air superiority jets, will scaling make my chopper bigger than the house I am hiding behind?

 

Interesting question.

 

I think maybe? But your eyes are drawn to/notice moving objects so maybe not a problem?

[esb77]

Visibility adjustment is complex, and aside from scale in terms of angle in field of view at a given distance and graphics rendering issues, the lighting and atmospheric optical properties play into it too.

 

Sometimes a passenger jet at 39,000 ft is more obvious in real life than an A-10 at 2 nm in DCS. Other times you know where the plane is in real life because you can hear it and extrapolate out the flight path, but due to lighting and particulates (or water vapor) you just can't see the thing despite what are VFR conditions.

 

It's a challenging problem from a physics modelling and mathematical perspective and from a computational workload standpoint.

 

Right now there are problems where you can't see when you should be able to, but a lot of strategy goes out the window if you go too far in the other direction and give everyone X-ray Eagle vision.

[KaspeR32]

+1 Extremely important. At least make aircraft landing lights extremely visible from far distances. Watch any airport and see how bright those lights look from 5+ nm away

[SharpeXB]

+1 Extremely important. At least make aircraft landing lights extremely visible from far distances. Watch any airport and see how bright those lights look from 5+ nm away

X-Plane does a really nice job with landing lights.