Valve/HTC Vive Discussion

[vicx]

There is a core of VR true believers at Valve and Facebookulus.

 

The word of Abrash is with Valve and so he went where he was needed next, which was Occulus after the Facebook acquisition. I'm sure he left Valve with blessings and good wishes.

 

I'm not joking when I say there is a bit of missionary zeal about this stuff; and Abrash is a lot like the Steve Jobs of VR now.

[cichlidfan]

In my opinion the technology that best pairs with physical pits is castAR. All you have to do is to cover all the area that corresponds to the glass of the cockpit with the reflective material and magically you have a stereoscopic view of the outside world in all directions which is rendered accordingly to your head position and orientation, while keeping the real world in sight (your hands, your nice cockpit, the so often mentioned beer, whatever).

 

It seems like a nice fit, but I'm reserving judgement until I see what it really looks like when they deliver it to me.

[cichlidfan]

Me too. I am not buying anything until reviews are in. Company marketing/hype is just that. Hype. Nothing Abrash, Luckey, Carmack or Newell say will influence my decision. The whole proof will be in the pudding.

 

Well, I did buy, in a manner of speaking, since I backed their kickstarter. :)

[Frusheen]

In my opinion the technology that best pairs with physical pits is castAR. All you have to do is to cover all the area that corresponds to the glass of the cockpit with the reflective material and magically you have a stereoscopic view of the outside world in all directions which is rendered accordingly to your head position and orientation, while keeping the real world in sight (your hands, your nice cockpit, the so often mentioned beer, whatever).

 

Undoubtedly this or similar AR tech is best for physical pits. I'm worried about the FOV though. Waiting to see what's released.

[Flim]

I can't use a 2d monitor anymore... when I do it seems so lame trying to twist my neck around with track IR. I had and built full pits as well and VR really opens up a new way of simming and training. I use my DK2 to practice emer procedures for the b206, works awesome. Even the military training devices kind of suck ( unless you're in the real aircraft), so I use my own and it puts me way ahead of my peers. Vr is good and will only get better/more accepted down the road.

Edited March 29, 2015 by Flim

[hansangb]

Physical pit does not give you any sense of flight. Something Vr does very well. Sorry but seeing most pit builders around here build a uber pit with uber amounts of switches only to use them with a pc monitor is a joke. I thought a 55 inch with my pit was epic in 3d, it doesn't even scratch the surface to what vr adds to my pit. Everybody will have their preferences I just recently changed mine.

 

 

On the other hand, OLED improvements could give rise to wrap around screens like those used in real simulators. Marry that with the pit, and it would be the ultimate experience. The way technology is advancing, probably not *that* far away.

 

hsb

[Chivas]

I think it will be quite sometime before we will have AR good enough for combat flight sims.

 

It will also be quite sometime before we have VR that equals the visual quality of a good monitor. Abrash himself says that VR will have to be 16K per eye before it equals a good monitor, because the eye is so close to the display. That said, even at 2K per eye VR headset will have far more immersion, and 3D depth than any 3D monitor, TrackIR solution. You can still see that your in a room in your house with a monitor, while a VR headset removes all outside influences, and immerses you into the game. BUT VR won't be perfect for probably more than a few consumer versions.

[rcjonessnp175]

I think it will be quite sometime before we will have AR good enough for combat flight sims.

 

It will also be quite sometime before we have VR that equals the visual quality of a good monitor. Abrash himself says that VR will have to be 16K per eye before it equals a good monitor, because the eye is so close to the display. That said, even at 2K per eye VR headset will have far more immersion, and 3D depth than any 3D monitor, TrackIR solution. You can still see that your in a room in your house with a monitor, while a VR headset removes all outside influences, and immerses you into the game. BUT VR won't be perfect for probably more than a few consumer versions.

 

Totally agree, right now with the rift dk2 it's simply enjoy the amazing immersion and advantages of that or enjoy the cleaner graphics and less immersion on a 2d/3d monitor. I find myself switching back and forth between what is in my signature. It's so ridiculously hard to go back to a 2d3d screen after flying in the rift.

I cannot wait for the cv1 and what the vive will bring to table. Just that jump to a higher resolution and one screen per eye will make a huge difference. In the mean time ED needs to enable down sampling for dcs world like Elite Dangerous has for their VR mode.

[metalnwood]

If both eyes saw both screens then you'd be right of course, but they don't. Each eye can only see one and so the screens are not additive.

 

Yes and no... Even if you are only watching the same thing but you watch with two eyes you get more resolution. There is of course no more resolution in the screen but your brain will see more resolution with two eyes rather than one.

 

Secondly and perhaps more importantly is that because you are now using binocular vision you are not looking at two images the same. Each eye is looking at a different image with information the other one doesnt have, there is a major overlap where the image is the same.

[chaos]

HTC Vive VR developer edition available

 

Just wanted to ask if ED had any plans to support, or is looking into, the Vive VR headset from HTC/Valve. Valve will be selecting developers to receive the HTC Vive development kit for free.

 

Could somebody from ED and/or Fighter Collection comment on this?

[rcjonessnp175]

Bump!!!

[booz]

No comment from ED ?

[Mode1961]

Steam VR - Vive

 

Can any from ED answer the following question. Will DC World support the Steam VR Vive the way it supports the Rift

[Neor]

I'm sure it will be supported. But first steam has to finish the Vive. I dont know when the Vive will be available

[felthat]

I'm sure it will be supported. But first steam has to finish the Vive. I dont know when the Vive will be available

November 2015 :thumbup:

[Chivas]

I think ED already has their hands full completing DCS World2, EDGE, and Rift support. I'm sure they will take a look at supporting Vive when they have time, but I don't see it happening anytime soon. Vive hasn't released their prototype to developers yet, but it should happen fairly soon. Vive will probably announce a number of software developers supporting their hardware at E3, but I doubt there will be any flight sims in the early mix.

[chaos]

Vive hasn't released their prototype to developers yet...

 

They did release it, actually. It's free as well... as long as you're a bonafide developer...

Edited May 21, 2015 by chaos

[Chivas]

They did release it, actually. It's free as well... as long as you're a bonafide developer...

 

Not yet they haven't. Maybe by the summer. It will only give most developers a few months to implement their software for Vive, if they manage to release their hardware this November.

 

Valve: HTC Vive Developer Edition to Ship ‘Very, Very Soon’

http://vrfocus.com/archives/15260/valve-htc-vive-developer-edition-to-ship-very-very-soon/

 

"Late last month saw Valve launch a sign-ups for the Developer Edition of the HTC Vive virtual reality (VR) head-mounted display (HMD). Studios are currently able to apply for free kits by describing their projects. Valve will then be selecting successful applicants and distributing developer edition kits throughout summer 2015. Many had hoped that the first of these devices would be showcased by now but Valve itself has recently reassured that they will be shipping ‘very, very soon’."

[rcjonessnp175]

Can any from ED answer the following question. Will DC World support the Steam VR Vive the way it supports the Rift

 

bump

[shagrat]

Maybe you should ask Valve/HTC if Vive is compatible to OculusRift and TrackIR/FreeTrack? ;)

[Python]

You would suspect ED will want to make sure DCS2 is compatible with all of the big players in VR, but you may see them concentrate on just the rift at first. I very much doubt the Vive will be ignored, it seems like it is going to be very strong competition against the rift and will no doubt steal some of its potential customer base, many of which will no doubt be DCS players.

[shagrat]

From a strict business perspective, how many customers that bought a Vive will buy DCS Modules because they have a Vive now? On the other hand,how many DCS owners will chose the Oculus Rift, as it is supported by their favorite flightsim?

Adopting SDKs of all major VR solutions is effort and resource usage on EDs money.

So the logical question is, what could HTC/Valve offer ED so DCS can help Valve to sell their Hardware?

 

I know, more like the devil's advocate here, but it seems to be a valid point of view, as ED will provide the Sim/Game that is likely to help HTC/Valve here, rather than the Vive help sales of DCS...

 

EDIT: maybe Valve can offer ED more revenue on DCS sales on Steam to give an incentive? Each sold module on Steam could help fund the Vive support/implementation in DCS in return?

Valve could advertise Vive with a "supported by the most professional military flight Sim available" badge! ;)

Edited May 27, 2015 by shagrat

[shagrat]

In theory yes, but still there needs to be somebody to do it. From a business perspective the question remains how many more sales the effort generates.

The dual screen adaption shouldn't be that hard, yet I don't know how much effort the different head tracking/sensor solutions need.

I guess ED will support the Vive eventually, but not necessarily to "make money". When they have spare resources in that area, or to see if Vive is "better" than Oculus Rift maybe?

The whole point is, what you get out of the additional effort, other than helping HTC/Valve to sell the Vive?

 

EDIT: think of it as the current electric car concepts. I build another e-car with a specific power coupling for charging. Now, all gas stations need to support not only Tesla power couplings, but mine in addition, or they would be foolish?

Edited May 27, 2015 by shagrat

[Jeesus]

In theory yes, but still there needs to be somebody to do it. From a business perspective the question remains how many more sales the effort generates.

The dual screen adaption shouldn't be that hard, yet I don't know how much effort the different head tracking/sensor solutions need.

I guess ED will support the Vive eventually, but not necessarily to "make money". When they have spare resources in that area, or to see if Vive is "better" than Oculus Rift maybe?

The whole point is, what you get out of the additional effort, other than helping HTC/Valve to sell the Vive?

 

The point of view is nevertheless logical, but we have to take the marketshare into consideration. In the current world of video games where SEGA gets mad on Alien: Isolation for selling only 2+ million copies, I would not expect HTC and Valve to get thrilled by the idea of a niche market product such as DCS to be the "system seller".

 

For us DCS is a dream come true, for an average gamer, it is an overly serious product behind a high wall of manuals and learning curve :)

[Chivas]

I'm sure DCS will eventually look at implementing Vive support, but they are currently being killed in the forums for DCS World 2 and EDGE delays, so I doubt they will allocate any manhours to Vive support, until EDGE with Oculus support is released. I know that Oculus has been working with DCS for sometime, and wonder if they have given DCS some financial and/or manpower support that might give DCS pause to looking at implementing Vive until the Rift has been released? Speculation keeps the forums lively. :)