DCS : F4U-1 Corsair

[BIGNEWY]

keep it friendly folks

[Raven (Elysian Angel)]

3 minutes ago, Hiob said:

not exclusively operated from carriers.

Yes I seem to remember the USN even refused to operate them from carriers when they first entered service, because the issue with 1 wing stalling before the other lead to so many accidents.

They gave the aircraft to the marines to fly from shore bases. It was the UK Navy that kept operating them from carriers because they had no other options.

[Hiob]

10 hours ago, AG-51_Razor said:

A good pilot never "slams" anything when making a control input. 

I might add, that in those days of the war, there where a lot of rookies, that unfortunately died before they ever had the chance to become good pilots.

[Captain Orso]

 

5 minutes ago, Hiob said:

Jeeze, calm down. We are just joking around. Obviously those numbers where completely made up on the spot.
And just a sidenote, rookies killing themselves by virtue of the massive torque reaction did happen. And another sidenote, the Corsair was not exclusively operated from carriers.

Yes, we can all see that this was a joke:

1 hour ago, Hiob said:

generally, I would agree. But granted, if you are .8 sec. from impact, you don't give yourself 3 sec. to ease the throttle forward. Double so if you are an under age, under trained and over stressed rookie.

Even in the P-51 they were instructed to not slam the throttle, even though the affect was not a pronounced, the yaw and role tendency is still extreme and dangerous. IIRC there were a few deadly accidents in P-51s caused by slamming the throttle on an aborted go-around. Panic is the last thing you need in the cockpit.

Yes, that slamming the Corsair's throttle would lead to a deadly roll is known. IDK why you are repeating it yet again.

What does the fact that Corsairs were also land based have to do with anything? Wildcats and Hellcats were also used land based. So?

[Cab]

11 minutes ago, Raven (Elysian Angel) said:

Besides, were LSOs even used at the time?

I seem to recall the landing pattern we're so used to in Case I was actually a British invention that worked so well, the US Navy decided to adopt it

From what I’ve read, the LSO position evolved from the early days of the USS Langley. 

[Ghostrider 147]

19 minutes ago, Raven (Elysian Angel) said:

It was the UK Navy that kept operating them from carriers because they had no other options.

The US Navy did actually operate the Corsair off their carriers pretty soon after the start of its deployment in the Pacific. The Hellcat was indeed preferred by the Navy in the beginning because the Corsair did have a number of issues with its carrier landing performance. Once those issues were ironed out, the Navy was already using the Hellcat and they didn't want to use the Corsair on the carriers because of logistical issues - it made sense to stick with one kind of fighter only. 

US Navy squadron VF-17 was a land-based naval squadron, but on occasions they landed and refuelled/rearmed on Navy carriers during the Battle of the Solomons. VF-17 and VF-12 I believe were two fully carrier-qualified Corsair squadrons in early/mid 1943. I believe the USS Enterprise also had a squadron of F4U-2 nightfighters. I think only after the Navy really realized how much (more) potential the Corsair had compared to the Hellcat, they started stationing more Corsair squadrons on carriers, but the Corsair has always been a fully carrier-qualified aircraft for the US Navy, and contrary to popular belief it was not the British that proved so. The British also had Hellcats operating in their Fleet Air Arm after all. 

Edited Wednesday at 09:36 AM by Ghostrider 147
Typo

[Raven (Elysian Angel)]

2 minutes ago, Cab said:

From what I’ve read, the LSO position evolved from the early days of the USS Langley. 

That probably makes the most sense: LSOs but still straight-in landings until they copied the Brits...

[Ghostrider 147]

1 minute ago, Raven (Elysian Angel) said:

LSOs but still straight-in landings until they copied the Brits...

The curved final approach for carrier landings was around for a long time already, other warbirds needed curved approaches too because pretty much all of them have poor visibility over the nose, not just the Corsair. The British didn't invent this specifically for the Corsair, this was already a thing much before the Corsair had its first flight. 

[Raven (Elysian Angel)]

Just now, Ghostrider 147 said:

The British didn't invent this specifically for the Corsair

That was not what I meant Doesn’t matter anyway, thanks for the info!

Always great to be able to keep learning new things.

[Captain Orso]

12 minutes ago, Raven (Elysian Angel) said:

Yes I seem to remember the USN even refused to operate them from carriers when they first entered service, because the issue with 1 wing stalling before the other lead to so many accidents.

They gave the aircraft to the marines to fly from shore bases. It was the UK Navy that kept operating them from carriers because they had no other options.

There were a number of issues, the uneven stall was just one of them. That got fixed by adding a block to the leading edge of the left wing to change the stall speed on the that wing.

Another issue was the undercarriage bounce - it was very extreme for an aircraft that, because of the fairly high landing speed, hit the deck fairly hard, and then because of the shock absorbers not working enough, caused the airframe to bounce back into the air. The Brits complained about this and IIRC modified the shock absorbers themselves to reduce bunce. Grumman later replace the shock absorbers with better working ones.

Another major issue in carrier landings was that the Navy trained their pilots to make a long, straight approach, more or less the same as Army pilots landing at an airfield. But the Corsairs extremely long nose blocked the view of the carrier on a long, straight approach.

With all three of these issues unsolved the Navy gave a no-go to carrier operations and kicked the Corsair to the Marines, who couldn't figure out why the Navy had given them such an excellent airplane.

[Cunctator]

There are a few excellent period training videos on YouTube that describe how to fly and deck land the Corsair properly. 

 

FAA Carrier landing procedures: 

 

[Ala13_ManOWar]

43 minutes ago, Captain Orso said:

Even in the P-51 they were instructed to not slam the throttle, even though the affect was not a pronounced, the yaw and role tendency is still extreme and dangerous. IIRC there were a few deadly accidents in P-51s caused by slamming the throttle on an aborted go-around. Panic is the last thing you need in the cockpit.

Maybe kind of this one?
 

 

Original video audio was ripped off due to some profanity said by the person recording, but I believe there was a throttle slamming after the bounce and that was the source of the accident in the end.

Edited Wednesday at 10:09 AM by Ala13_ManOWar

[Captain Orso]

6 hours ago, Ala13_ManOWar said:

Maybe kind of this one?
 

 

Original video audio was ripped off due to some profanity said by the person recording, but I believe there was a throttle slamming after the bounce and that was the source of the accident in the end.

He looks to me like someone who hasn't practiced touch-n-go's enough. When the main wheels touch the ground you have to push the stick forward just a touch, otherwise the inertia of the COG behind the main wheel forces the tail down and the nose upward, which is exactly what you see happening here. When that happens you are supposed to go around, even if it's embarrassing to bounce and have to go around. It's not as embarrassing as trying to force the landing and wiping out your million dollar warbird.

This is also why every warbird manual tells you to do a three-point landing, even if it's not as cool.

[ricktoberfest]

19 hours ago, Qcumber said:

The movie "Devotion"? 

 

Yes, thanks. Couldn’t remember the name 

[MAXsenna]

Porque es como mejor me expreso y hoy en día con todos los avances tecnológicos, se tarda poco en traducir un texto web.
 
=================================
 
Because it is how I express myself best and nowadays with all the technological advances, it takes little time to translate a web text.

Well, don't take this the wrong way, but I'm reading this on my cell with Tapatalk, and I couldn't be bothered to open it in Chrome for the translation. And, the rules on the Forum state that the messages should match the forum language, so you're in the wrong here.

Sent from my SM-A536B using Tapatalk

[ESAc_flankercobra]

hace 15 horas, MAXsenna dijo:

Well, don't take this the wrong way, but I'm reading this on my cell with Tapatalk, and I couldn't be bothered to open it in Chrome for the translation. And, the rules on the Forum state that the messages should match the forum language, so you're in the wrong here.

Sent from my SM-A536B using Tapatalk
 

No hombre, tranquilo, "quien hizo la ley hizo la trampa"; dicen en mi tierra. Ya me encargo yo de traducir el texto para que estén en el lugar adecuado. Hablemos del F4U que es lo importante.

 

============================

 

No man, calm down, "he who made the law made the trap"; they say in my country. I am in charge of translating the text so that they are in the right place. Let's continue talking about the Corsair, which is what is important.

VÍDEO INSTRUCCIÓN REAL:

https://youtu.be/PzLM4-grT2g

Mejor calidad:
https://youtu.be/R4aPk4fledU

VIDEO DOCUMENTAL:

https://youtu.be/Au6rD-BdY5w?list=FLKtKZ8sx27s8QeMImaadWSw

VIDEO DOCUMENTAL II:

https://youtu.be/acAFs2WZbL0

VÍDEO DOCUMENTAL III:

https://youtu.be/tFfXWJDO5pw

https://youtu.be/oIiVARJM6oM

https://youtu.be/rNcV13uayxw

https://youtu.be/g6a6gKPqDFc

ROYAL NAVY 1946:

https://youtu.be/TZ1CTwM-j00

Despiece:

https://youtu.be/uGMWgOFnRTA
 

Edited 14 hours ago by ESAc_flankercobra