DCS : F4U-1 Corsair

[billythebassman]

On 3/7/2024 at 5:16 AM, Krupi said:

Just be patient

Nope, I was patient in 2015, 2016, 2017, 2018, 2019, 2020, 2021, 2022, 2023 and two and a half months in 2024. 

I'll  wait for the Hellcat... It is better on carriers and perhaps more iconic.  I won't reward developers who show this kind of contempt for the community.  This F4U-1 is the very last plane I would ever buy. 

[Hammer1-1]

3 hours ago, billythebassman said:

Nope, I was patient in 2015, 2016, 2017, 2018, 2019, 2020, 2021, 2022, 2023 and two and a half months in 2024. 

I'll  wait for the Hellcat... It is better on carriers and perhaps more iconic.  I won't reward developers who show this kind of contempt for the community.  This F4U-1 is the very last plane I would ever buy. 

Then dont ever buy it. Not sure what contempt you are talking about, but there have been far worse devs here that overpromises and never delivers. A lot more of us are happy waiting for this aircraft whether you like it or not, my money isnt yet wasted on it.

[Rick50]

5 hours ago, billythebassman said:

  I won't reward developers who show this kind of contempt for the community.  

 

Oh, ok. 

Yes, that must be it: the people making the thing you so wanted, are just wanting to piss you off and not get any accolades or money  for their efforts. It's just about insulting you.

 

Uh.... not sure how that makes any sense,  but you keep it real bro! It couldn't possibly be any of the other reasons projects get stalled and delayed.

I've no idea why it's taking so long. But past experience with combat flight sim industry information releases tells me it's downright amazing the number of things that can go wrong for dev teams in the past.  Members get cancer. Members quit in order to try to save their disintegrating marriage. Members get promotions at work, and suddenly find they have much increased workload and responsibilities that just overwhelm them and stop their dev contributions cold.

Internal members sabotage. Hard  drives fail. Residence burns down or floods. A key member of the team gets hired by another team and leaves. The team gets a cease and desist order from the legal team of a rights holder, threatening to sue the team right out  of existence. A bug in the programming just can't be fully  resolved without breaking two more things. That problem might take 9 months to find a work around  or solution. A disagreement in the team: absolute perfection  above all else, while other team  members have a clear and reasonable idea about "good enough, close enough to perfection".   They run out of money to keep developing, and need to focus on feeding their families.

Every single one of these situations is one that I read about from combat flight dev teams that shared their experiences,  over the last two decades. These aren't hypothetical. 

I'm sure this is a labour of love for the team. And it's quite possible that maybe they took on more than they thought they were. 

Maybe it'd be better for devs to not even bother informing the public about new projects until they are released. That way you don't get upset.  In this case, maybe "ignorance is bliss" might hold true. Not saying you are ignorant, just that maybe you don't have the patience to wait for projects that don't come fast and furiosa? 

[Hiob]

I have the feeling that some people fail to differentiate between a multi-million game developement company like EA (or even ED for that matter) and a small indi-developer that may consist of 3-5 people working part time next to their main bread-winning job.

I wonder how so much entitlement generally works out in life.  

[billythebassman]

Yes, the project may take years to develop for all the reasons some have mentioned...  posting some updated information takes about a minute. 

This  topic is nine years old and 48 pages long.  When was the last time the developers posted any information?

The contempt is the non-communication. 

 

[Hiob]

Communication during a developement phase is optional - not mandatory. (With the exception of pre-sales - which is a non-issue in this case).

I would argue, that it is well-advised to keep your mouth shut, when you have nothing important to tell, especially when anything you talk about is subject to change. A concept that many, MANY potential customers struggle with - as proven countless times in this forum.

Or in other words, you can wish for information, but you have no "rights" whatsoever to it.

Edit: ....and I'm equally eager to lay my hands on the F4U as you are (or have been?) - believe me.

Edited March 12, 2024 by Hiob

[Omega417]

I think the big issue people have with communication stems from both big studio update cycles, and real world job update cycles. Working in software and other fields, it doesnt matter if my work has been nothing but conducting peer reviews for the past 2 weeks, I am still required to give a status update to my boss. Scheduling and contract progress reports depend on this status being known. We have also been spoiled by Friday updates from ED, even if there is no real news there, at least we get a quick blurb from the developer.

These developers havent signed a contract with us that requires them to inform us of their status. As much as i would love to see a quarterly status update, even if its just code percentages, there is no requirement for an update.

 

[Silver_Dragon]

2 hours ago, billythebassman said:

Yes, the project may take years to develop for all the reasons some have mentioned...  posting some updated information takes about a minute. 

This  topic is nine years old and 48 pages long.  When was the last time the developers posted any information?

The contempt is the non-communication. 

 

The last Magnitude 3 newsletter / com with info about F-4U and other projects  was on November 2023. I dont see any problem with a 3rd party only put a year newsletter about your progress. We have 3rd parties here with dont put anything... and the progress continue without problem.
https://magnitude-3.com/2023/11/04/2023-annual-update/

 

Edited March 12, 2024 by Silver_Dragon

[BIGNEWY]

When a third party or we at ED have news to share we will share it. 

It can not be stated enough, creating modules is very challenging, stay optimistic, be supportive of the things you want to see in DCS that have been announced. If you do not like the long wait, apologies but there is no escaping it sometimes. 

 

If anyone thinks that they can create modules quicker and have a team with a module idea feel free to contact us, we are always looking for new partners. 

thanks

[Raisuli]

5 hours ago, BIGNEWY said:

It can not be stated enough, creating modules is very challenging, stay optimistic, be supportive of the things you want to see in DCS that have been announced. If you do not like the long wait, apologies but there is no escaping it sometimes.

I'm very optimistic that when the F4U and F6F are both available we will see, once and for all, that the F4U was the superior aircraft overall 

I'm also very optimistic that until that day comes I have plenty to do with the toys I have readily available.  Actually, I learn aircraft at about the same rate that developers produce them and I got a late start, so no rush.  In the meantime I have a shelf full of F4U books should a Corsair emergency arise.

Carry on.  The checkbook will wait patently.

[Hammer1-1]

13 hours ago, billythebassman said:

The contempt is the non-communication. 

 

Thats not contempt. You would be hard pressed 10 years + ago to get any updates from ED with DCS world or anything else at that matter. With people like you lurking about, its a small wonder why they still do now. Nobody is out to please you, when they have a product to release they will release it. Go talk to the folks over at Polychop and ask about that Gaz and the Kiowa thats been in the works since 2012. M3 is a small team, and polychop even more so. When they are ready to release "anything" they will in due time and IMO not a moment sooner.

Edited March 13, 2024 by Hammer1-1

[Lionel Mandrake]

On 3/12/2024 at 11:39 PM, billythebassman said:

Yes, the project may take years to develop for all the reasons some have mentioned...  posting some updated information takes about a minute. 

This  topic is nine years old and 48 pages long.  When was the last time the developers posted any information?

The contempt is the non-communication. 

 

Exactly right, ignore the endless shills and white knights, it takes about 5 minutes once a week/fortnight to jump on here and give an update from a developer. It's laziness at best, contempt at worst that they don't do it. 

Best part is this keeps EVERYONE happy not just the portion of a community who is happy to wait endlessly for what has very slowly turned into vaporware.

Corsair won't be released this year. 

[Cab]

26 minutes ago, Lionel Mandrake said:

Exactly right, ignore the endless shills and white knights, it takes about 5 minutes once a week/fortnight to jump on here and give an update from a developer. It's laziness at best, contempt at worst that they don't do it. 

Best part is this keeps EVERYONE happy not just the portion of a community who is happy to wait endlessly for what has very slowly turned into vaporware.

Corsair won't be released this year. 

No money has exchanged hands so they owe nothing. For all I care, they could be developing it in secret and only announce when it’s ready for sale. 

[Hammer1-1]

4 hours ago, Lionel Mandrake said:

Exactly right, ignore the endless shills and white knights, it takes about 5 minutes once a week/fortnight to jump on here and give an update from a developer. It's laziness at best, contempt at worst that they don't do it. 

Best part is this keeps EVERYONE happy not just the portion of a community who is happy to wait endlessly for what has very slowly turned into vaporware.

Corsair won't be released this year. 

Take it for whatever you want. If it makes you happy to be pissy, to be happy with a garbage attitude, go be happy. You can go be happy somewhere else.

Edited March 14, 2024 by Hammer1-1

[Silver_Dragon]

16 hours ago, Lionel Mandrake said:

Exactly right, ignore the endless shills and white knights, it takes about 5 minutes once a week/fortnight to jump on here and give an update from a developer. It's laziness at best, contempt at worst that they don't do it. 

Best part is this keeps EVERYONE happy not just the portion of a community who is happy to wait endlessly for what has very slowly turned into vaporware.

Corsair won't be released this year. 

Remember the rules:

1.10 Product feedback and constructive criticism is encouraged when provided in a mature and courteous manner. However, feedback that is abusive, insulting or condescending is not welcome. Additionally, to bring up a particular issue repeatedly after it has already been acknowledged will be considered "trolling" - in such cases a warning will be issued to the author and the post will be removed.

[Bowie]

On 3/14/2024 at 11:46 AM, Silver_Dragon said:

Remember the rules:

1.10 Product feedback and constructive criticism is encouraged when provided in a mature and courteous manner. However, feedback that is abusive, insulting or condescending is not welcome. Additionally, to bring up a particular issue repeatedly after it has already been acknowledged will be considered "trolling" - in such cases a warning will be issued to the author and the post will be removed.

Contrary opinions... are.

 

And Administrative Threats - are a poor substitute for argument in the arena of ideas.

 

Some of us have been looking forward to this PTO expansion since the abandonment and demise of CFS2/1%.

 

Waiting patiently, and being jerked around, are discernible differences to one paying attention.

 

 

Bowie

[DD_Fenrir]

Self entitled, over indulged, petulant “Gimme!” types gonna “Gimme!”, I guess.

Quit foaming at the mouth. It’s undignified.

[Hammer1-1]

5 hours ago, Bowie said:

Contrary opinions... are.

 

And Administrative Threats - are a poor substitute for argument in the arena of ideas.

 

Some of us have been looking forward to this PTO expansion since the abandonment and demise of CFS2/1%.

 

Waiting patiently, and being jerked around, are discernible differences to one paying attention.

 

 

Bowie

Who's jerking you around? Someone posts a screenshot and all the sudden its in release phase? Being an uptight tw@ isnt going to speed up the development.

[Art-J]

On 3/14/2024 at 3:16 AM, Lionel Mandrake said:

Exactly right, ignore the endless shills and white knights, it takes about 5 minutes once a week/fortnight to jump on here and give an update from a developer. It's laziness at best, contempt at worst that they don't do it. 

Best part is this keeps EVERYONE happy not just the portion of a community who is happy to wait endlessly for what has very slowly turned into vaporware.

Corsair won't be released this year. 

I'd say the problem with that approach is you would get a post of "There's a bit of system/FM coding/debugging done" week after week after week after week after week and after week.

The only interesting stuff that can be used for updates and newsletters (of any PC videogame really) is graphics (screenshots and short vids), maybe occasionally some functional feature  description like Heatblur's custom UI for upcoming Phantom.

We've got some of the former (screenshots posted by Rudel every now and then), all the latter would be tedious and not really "showable" bits and pieces of code.

In the end, as mentioned above, as long as money hasn't changed hands yet, nobody owes anything to anyone. And even money isn't a guarantee of succesful outcome. Let's not forget all these nice screens and vids of VEAO P-40F (with pre-purchase!) and Mk XIV Spitfire coming to DCS... until the company flopped and they didn't.

[Cab]

7 hours ago, Bowie said:

Waiting patiently, and being jerked around, are discernible differences to one paying attention.

Who, exactly, is jerking you around. They've taken no money; they've made no promises.

You and others need to rethink this.

Edited March 17, 2024 by Cab

[Gunfreak]

38 minutes ago, Art-J said:

I'd say the problem with that approach is you would get a post of "There's a bit of system/FM coding/debugging done" week after week after week after week after week and after week.

The only interesting stuff that can be used for updates and newsletters (of any PC videogame really) is graphics (screenshots and short vids), maybe occasionally some functional feature  description like Heatblur's custom UI for upcoming Phantom.

We've got some of the former (screenshots posted by Rudel every now and then), all the latter would be tedious and not really "showable" bits and pieces of code.

In the end, as mentioned above, as long as money hasn't changed hands yet, nobody owes anything to anyone. And even money isn't a guarantee of succesful outcome. Let's not forget all these nice screens and vids of VEAO P-40F (with pre-purchase!) and Mk XIV Spitfire coming to DCS... until the company flopped and they didn't.

If all developers (ED included ) just followed the example of 

Grinnelli Designs for the F100 or FlyingIron Simulations A7 there would almost never be a problem.  Its amazing how some developers easily mange to make good useful updates every few months. While others can't manage even 5% of that transparency.

And no updates don't have to include fancy graphics or video.

If all you've been doing for 3 months is coding fine. Spend literally 5 minutes to write that. Instead of just saying noting for 1-3 years. I think it was airplane simulation company that released an update that was just showing graphs about the flight model or something like that and people found it interesting. It's super easy to just give short updates. No news is not good news.

No, we don't need a release estimate in updates. No, we don't need fancy pictures or graphics in updates.

Yes, updates can be just a graph or some numbers or literally just, sorry guys half our coders got in a bar fight with some drunk schools girls and now all their fingers are in a cast so can't code. So nothing much has happened the last 3 months. 

Transparency is always good.

The "when we have news we will share it" policy just makes things needlessly complicated. Literally 5 minutes of typing every 3 months would make the entire ED forum far less antagonistic. 

And when your products often sell based on word of mouth. Not hinding from you customers is probably good.

There is also a world of difference between a module that has been in development less than 2 years and one that has been in development for 8.

 

[Silver_Dragon]

37 minutes ago, Gunfreak said:

If all developers (ED included ) just followed the example of 

Grinnelli Designs for the F100 or FlyingIron Simulations A7 there would almost never be a problem.  Its amazing how some developers easily mange to make good useful updates every few months. While others can't manage even 5% of that transparency.

And no updates don't have to include fancy graphics or video.

If all you've been doing for 3 months is coding fine. Spend literally 5 minutes to write that. Instead of just saying noting for 1-3 years. I think it was airplane simulation company that released an update that was just showing graphs about the flight model or something like that and people found it interesting. It's super easy to just give short updates. No news is not good news.

No, we don't need a release estimate in updates. No, we don't need fancy pictures or graphics in updates.

Yes, updates can be just a graph or some numbers or literally just, sorry guys half our coders got in a bar fight with some drunk schools girls and now all their fingers are in a cast so can't code. So nothing much has happened the last 3 months. 

Transparency is always good.

The "when we have news we will share it" policy just makes things needlessly complicated. Literally 5 minutes of typing every 3 months would make the entire ED forum far less antagonistic. 

And when your products often sell based on word of mouth. Not hinding from you customers is probably good.

There is also a world of difference between a module that has been in development less than 2 years and one that has been in development for 8.

 

Talking about transparence, are you new here?.... you remember with ED and Other 3rd parties build extensive reports years ago, and here some folks convert that reports on a S....storm?, and ED cut all comunicatins with post has turned on a hunt of "torches and pitchforks" with a "Where are my module?".... someone has learn by the hard way, with someone has none interest on "comprensive develop reports" (example Wags Develop reports).

Edited March 17, 2024 by Silver_Dragon

[Gunfreak]

2 minutes ago, Silver_Dragon said:

Talking about transparence, are you new here?.... you remember with ED and Other 3rd parties build extensive reports and here some folks convert that reports on a <profanity>storm, and ED cut all comunicatins with the "Where are my module?".... someone has learn by the hard way, with someone has none interest on "comprensive develop reports".

I have no idea what you are talking about.

As far as I know nothing bad has happened from the updates from Grinnelli Designs' on the F100 or FlyingIron Simulations' on the A7. Only thing that happened was people was appreciative for getting full and clear updates about the project.

[Silver_Dragon]

Just now, Gunfreak said:

I have no idea what you are talking about.

That "If all developers (ED included ) just followed the example of "

 

[Gunfreak]

2 minutes ago, Silver_Dragon said:

That "If all developers (ED included ) just followed the example of "

 

Still have no idea what you're on about.