AV-8B Harrier Thread

[NastyFruit]

I know the appropriate answer to my question is probably "Wait and see" but maybe someone can indulge my impatience:

 

How many GBU-12 /38's will the harrier be able to carry in one go? (With a TGP pod attached also) Is there a possible load-out matrix for the version we are getting?

 

Thanks!

[ORANGELIMEKILLA]

I know the appropriate answer to my question is probably "Wait and see" but maybe someone can indulge my impatience:

 

How many GBU-12 /38's will the harrier be able to carry in one go? (With a TGP pod attached also) Is there a possible load-out matrix for the version we are getting?

 

Thanks!

I think you can carry 12xGbu-12 idk how many Gbu-38s I haven't seen those in a rack. I have seen a picture of the Av-8B in dcs with triple racks of Gbu-12s.

[WinterH]

I think navy/marines aircraft use twin ejector racks mostly, so I'm not sure of 12x gbus, but I may be wrong.

 

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[shagrat]

I think navy/marines aircraft use twin ejector racks mostly, so I'm not sure of 12x gbus, but I may be wrong.

 

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In one of the videos they have TERs with 3 GBU-12 loaded plus a single GBU-12 on each wing.

[NastyFruit]

Wow, I thought I would have to be happy with 4 gbu-12s!

 

This is great news.

 

I went looking at all the vids again that I could find, but could not find anywhere where there was more that a single gbu-12 on a pilon. I found some with a bunch of mk-82s.

 

Would there be any reason why we would be able to load ters with mk-82's, but not a ter with gbu-12s?

 

If we could carry 12 x gbu-12, it would be the best tank plinker ever! (Almost as much bombs as a A-10C, but about twice as fast! Sounds like a dream come true)

 

Had high hopes for F/A 18 tank plinking, but there is a huge debate if 2 X gbu-12 would even be possible per pilon...

 

Thanks

[DZShizzam]

In practice harriers would never be used with 12x GBUs. In fact, I've never heard of a harrier carrying more than 4 GBUs at a time.

 

I'm pretty sure 12x GBUs would make the Harrier far too heavy to actually take off, maybe unless your tanks were completely empty.

[NastyFruit]

In practice harriers would never be used with 12x GBUs. In fact, I've never heard of a harrier carrying more than 4 GBUs at a time.

 

I'm pretty sure 12x GBUs would make the Harrier far too heavy to actually take off, maybe unless your tanks were completely empty.

 

Yeah, I guess it won't be done now (relative peace time) but when the Russian horde* invades Nevada, I am pretty sure they will be loading as many as they can ;)

*No offence to Russians

 

According to Wikipedia (This could thus be wrong) it has a weapons payload of 9200lbs. If each gbu-12 is 500lb's, this allows for just over 18 gbu-12s in weight. I am sure the brackets etc also weight a few lbs, but it looks like 12 gbu-12s should be within the weight limits. (Obviously you would not be vstol'ing with that)

 

Or is there something I am not considering?

Also, the vid where Razbam is carrying 12 mk82's, and two a-a missiles should also indicate it could handle the weight? Realistic or not, I have this urge to have a fast(ish) tank busting bomb dropping machine. Hoping the AV-8B is that machine ;)

[shagrat]

In practice harriers would never be used with 12x GBUs. In fact, I've never heard of a harrier carrying more than 4 GBUs at a time.

 

I'm pretty sure 12x GBUs would make the Harrier far too heavy to actually take off, maybe unless your tanks were completely empty.

It could do a normal take-off, but you are absolutely right, this is not a realistic loadout. In most scenarios you would have a combination of different weapons and usually the TERs are used with Mk.82 series dumb bombs.

 

I am also pretty sure a 12(!) bomb loadout may have some impact on agility... Thinking of "sitting duck" here. ;)

[Zeus67]

In practice harriers would never be used with 12x GBUs. In fact, I've never heard of a harrier carrying more than 4 GBUs at a time.

 

I'm pretty sure 12x GBUs would make the Harrier far too heavy to actually take off, maybe unless your tanks were completely empty.

 

One of the available documents indicate possible weapons loads, which does not means authorized weapons load. So it is poasible to load 12 GBUs but it is unlikely such load is authorized.

[NastyFruit]

Awesome, thanks for the info guys!

 

Sorry, I missed that document. I have checked the pocket guide, but did not see it. (I might have missed it)

 

In what document can I find the possible loads?

 

Thanks again!

[shagrat]

Awesome, thanks for the info guys!

 

Sorry, I missed that document. I have checked the pocket guide, but did not see it. (I might have missed it)

 

In what document can I find the possible loads?

 

Thanks again!

Currently looking it up. There is a lot of RL documents available on the web.

But in general the inner two pylons support TERs so anything of the Mk. 82 class can be loaded, technically.

What does not mean it is practical or realistic.

[shagrat]

So there is one of the lists of stations and possible weapons. You find the GBU-12 in the list to the left (all dumb bombs of that class). The table shows possible stations and how the drop sequence looks like.

This table is for the armorer, who needs to plot the loadout into the system with codes, so the actual weapons computer knows, what is loaded.

One of these things, where DCS cannot really give the full real world experience.

[NastyFruit]

Awesome, thanks, that is a great chart.

 

Did some digging, found the "NTRP 3.22-4-AV8B" document. Seems to outline weapons related course material for someone training on the AV-8B. (not sure though)

 

It states this:

 

SMECH-1431 1.0 * R RNAWST S

 

Goal. Introduce transition profiles, heavyweight aircraft handling, and reactive weaponeering.

 

Requirement. Perform 3 30-degree or 45-degree deliveries and 2 PGM deliveries: 1 level entry to a 45- or 30-degree dive delivery, 1 ramp entry to level delivery, and 1 ramp entry to a 45 or 30-degree dive delivery. Utilize WARP to generate weaponeering data including reactive weaponeering.

 

 

Ordnance. 6 Mk-82 LD, 2 GBU-12.

 

So it looks like 8 X 500lb class weapons are tested during training, and considered "heavyweight"

I can live with 8 X GBU-12 ;)

 

It also mentions gbu-12s on ITERs in another section.

 

Here is a link to the doc if anyone is interested:

http://www.marines.mil/Portals/59/Publications/NAVMC%203500.51A.pdf

 

Cheers

[Tormoz]

but when the Russian horde* invades Nevada, I am pretty sure they will be loading as many as they can ;)

One of the available documents indicate possible weapons loads, which does not means authorized weapons load. So it is poasible to load 12 GBUs but it is unlikely such load is authorized.

I am typical Russian with bad english, this yes or no?

Seriously, I dont want any more F/A 18C, because only 4 GBU.

[WinterH]

I am typical Russian with bad english, this yes or no?

Seriously, I dont want any more F/A 18C, because only 4 GBU.

 

It does look like a yes, it is in the actual aircraft manual as a possible loadout after all (12x GBU-12s).

[Vitormouraa]

I am typical Russian with bad english, this yes or no?

Seriously, I dont want any more F/A 18C, because only 4 GBU.

 

You don't want the F/A-18C anymore just because of that? Hehe Good luck! You won't go anywhere with that loadout really. :) Once Harrier reaches the battlefield (in a CAS scenario), depending on the distance between the battlefield and the base, you have only 15-30 minutes if playtime.

 

By the way, Hornet is capable of carrying 8 GBU-12s using the rack BRU-33 VER. Plus 2 AIM-9X, one ATFLIR + one AIM-120 or two AIM-120/AIM-7s as well as an external fuel tank. (centerline).

 

But this kind of loadout will never be used in real life I would say. It's extremely rare because if you want a bomb truck, they would have 2 or 4 ships flying together with external fuel tanks instead of "bombs to plane ratio".

 

But since this is DCS you can use whatever you want. (for giggles I guess :D)

 

Is it realistic? No, is it a draggy loadout? absolutely. Effective? Yeah.. it could be. Since you can decide what's going to happen in a battlefield. Not quite the same in real life.

 

They are both known for being short legs, even more if you are going to use those loadouts!

Edited October 19, 2017 by Vitormouraa

[BIGNEWY]

lets not go off topic :)

[Kayos]

You mean ED?

 

Yes of course I meant ED lol :music_whistling:

[AldoUSMC]

As you talk loadouts remember that the real strength of the Harrier is it’s ability to forward base/rearm/refuel for quick turnarounds. Not it’s ability to carry a massive amount of ordnance. FARPs will be crucial to fully effective DCS employment of this AC.

[Spudknocker]

In regards to the idea of 12x GBU's I dont believe this is possible.

 

While GBU-12's are basically modified Mk-82's they require a digital/wired connection to the aircraft, I do not think that the standard USN/USMC/USAF triple ejector racks (Forgotten the designation number) are wired to handle smart bombs.

 

You could carry that many if you want to employ them as dumb bombs without their laser guidance seeker heads functioning properly- but I think that the DOD and lockheed martin would be a little upset that you used their high end gadgetry for such a purpose haha Mk-82's work fine.

[drPhibes]

While GBU-12's are basically modified Mk-82's they require a digital/wired connection to the aircraft(...)

 

Do they? IIRC, fusing and laser codes can be set by the ground crew, and I cant find any pictures showing an umbilical between the seeker/guidance section of a GBU-12 and the pylon, so I'm pretty sure that a GBU-12 can be dropped from any Mk-82 compatible pylon. But I have been wrong once or twice before, so if you have any technical documentation that says otherwise, feel free to post a link here.

[Vitormouraa]

Also, are we talking about the TER (triple ejector rack) correct? A-10C can carry and employ GBU-12s mounted on TERs. I'm assuming it's the same thing for the Harrier?

[Paradox]

Also, are we talking about the TER (triple ejector rack) correct? A-10C can carry and employ GBU-12s mounted on TERs. I'm assuming it's the same thing for the Harrier?

 

Yeah it's the same rack as on the A-10C I believe

Edited October 20, 2017 by Paradox

[eelcoool]

today, is yet another hopefull friday

[Bersagliere81]

I strongly doubt they will release something with sales in effect. Buy who knows