TrackIR Behavior with 1.5.4 Release

[Gliptal]

in real life cockpits you have a 270x270 degree dome you can see by moving your eyes only.

 

dont compare that to a screen in front of you.

This is my point. Since I'm not flying a real jet, why should I be impaired by the visual system, forcing me to do what in the real thing I wouldn't have to?

 

What is the positive gain of the new visual angle? You basically see nothing of the cockpit, and a lot more of the sky. I'd rather see my instruments with that small FOV allowed by my monitor, than a whole bunch of sky. This may be debatable for fighters, but a ground pounder like the A-10C, that relies quite a lot on the MFCDs as well, I don't care that much about what's going on 10000 feet above me. I'm more preoccupied about what my instruments are telling me and what is going on on the ground.

 

Am I making sense here?

Edited July 9, 2016 by Gliptal

[flankerzrj]

Yes，the same bug.

[SkateZilla]

Huh?

 

You can see 45 degrees behind you without moving your head?

 

sorry, 180x180 give or take.

[SkateZilla]

This is my point. Since I'm not flying a real jet, why should I be impaired by the visual system, forcing me to do what in the real thing I wouldn't have to?

 

What is the positive gain of the new visual angle? You basically see nothing of the cockpit, and a lot more of the sky. I'd rather see my instruments with that small FOV allowed by my monitor, than a whole bunch of sky. This may be debatable for fighters, but a ground pounder like the A-10C, that relies quite a lot on the MFCDs as well, I don't care that much about what's going on 10000 feet above me. I'm more preoccupied about what my instruments are telling me and what is going on on the ground.

 

Am I making sense here?

 

yes, you preferred the default view point being -27 degrees angle.

[wedge_one]

well, I'm a TrackIR user and either I didn't notice the view point change or it didn't change at all.

 

since I'm using Steam, when I launch the game it asks if I want a VR or non-VR.

 

when I first launched the game after the update and the TrackIR wasn't working, first thing I did was to check the options menu, and the VR option was checked, then I unchecked it...

 

that wasn't related to the TrackIR problem - had to use the workaround I found here in the forums - but it might have influenced the in game viewpoint. like I said, either that or I didn't notice at all.

[cichlidfan]

sorry, 180x180 give or take.

 

Lots of take, in the vertical plane. According to my copy of Human Factors in Design, the average FOV is only 50 degrees above horizontal, and less than 90 below.

Edited July 9, 2016 by cichlidfan

[RglsPhoto]

How about add an option for this new feature? so both the old and new will be happy

[Gliptal]

yes, you preferred the default view point being -27 degrees angle.

Yeah I'm trying to convey why I think it's the one that makes more sense as well.

[SharpeXB]

I've been using it, and havent noticed it's "un-usability"

 

However, will push up ladder.

With a normal TrackIR curve like the "smooth" preset, you can't look down at the right and left consoles without losing tracking.

[SkateZilla]

Lots of take, in the vertical plane. According to my copy of Human Factors in Design, the average FOV is only 50 degrees above horizontal, and less than 90 below.

 

you can move your eyes without moving your head.

[SharpeXB]

So the Issue here is:

Old Habitual Tracking vs New Realistic tracking.

Those terms "habitual" and "realistic" have no logical meaning. We're looking at a 2D PC monitor here.

 

You're saying "old" and "new" as if something has changed about how these games are played.

Nothing has fundamentally changed about flight sim gaming in the 5 years since the A-10C was released. The reason why the default head view is set, to allow users to easily see the HUD and MFCDs is still true today.

What is new? The overwhelming majority of players are using the same type of 1080p monitor they were using in 2011.

VR is new but it's in its infancy and won't be a quality experience for games like this for many years and won't replace monitors anytime soon. If that's what's driving changes like this, that's an awful miscalculation.

 

The TrackIR is not new either. We shouldn't have to explain to ED how it works.

Edited July 9, 2016 by SharpeXB

[cichlidfan]

you can move your eyes without moving your head.

 

Due to the structure of the average skull, that adds about 5 degrees below the horizon and around 10 above.

[StandingCow]

Tested the new system with my track IR really quick, it is different but seems fine to me. You can dip your head to get a better view of the gauges or just look down.

 

Maybe some people need to adjust their track IR settings now? I kinda like the change.

[firmek]

Guys give it a try and spend a moment playing with the head position in DCS (RCtrl+RShift + num arrows, num-, num*)

A10 in DCS has a specific head position in cockpit with face almost glued to the front console. Also the old custom view setting may be not suitable after update so start with removing or renaming the "SnapViews.lua" file located in user folder "Saved Games\DCS.openbeta\Config\View".

 

In other planes that I've checked after a while of getting used to it's actually starts to feel much better and natural. Maybe it's only a matter of suggestion but also tracking seems to be more precise.

I've noticed a speed difference with the new tracking being much slower. In old settings I had the saturation of TIR axis set to 50%. After the update laving default 100% allowed me to use the same TIR profile without making any changes to it.

 

Overall this change will require some getting used to. The way how TIR is working, is by definition not natural as it requires the eyes to stay at the same point while the head is moving. After months or years of exercising brain to the same virtual head position and movement the first reaction is that something is out of place.

 

It looks like M2000C and Mig-21 for some reason are using the old tracking system. If this is true it raises a concerns as altering a core functionality of the system brings a lot of issues for the maintenance.

[SharpeXB]

When I first got the A-10 I thought the head position seemed odd. And tried to "fix" it and then realized why it's set up the way it is. And kept it back on its default. On the average 1080p screen a player would be unable to read the HUD if their head was back against the headrest. It would appear too small. So the head position is moved forward, you look backward and it appears you're sitting on the dashboard. But without that larger view of the HUD and MFCDs the game wouldn't be playable. And remember this sim was (is?) a military desktop trainer where trainees are really just sitting at a desk without fancy head tracking, looking at the HUD and displays.

Nothing about that reality has changed. There are bigger higher resolution screens today and VR headsets but the vast majority are using the same monitor as in 2007. Not much has changed in the world of monitors.

The challenge of that head-forward position is that the side consoles, particularly the CDU are almost behind you rather than at your side. You need to lean around in sims to see and click on controls you wouldn't have to in reality, like the switches under the throttle, radios and such. But it all works currently.

Was this a "problem" that needed fixing? I don't recall anyone complaining before. Now they will be...

[will-]

this "effect" does not just apply to the a10c, its very well noticed in the f-15c as well. just a FYI.

[Barao]

The update to 1.54 wrecked the default viewpoint in the cockpit!

Your head is up against the top of the canopy and the FOV is all stretched looking downwards at the consoles.

Please put this back the way it was! :wallbash:

 

Same here :(

[SharpeXB]

Hmmm a few TrackIR adjustments and it seems workable

I increased the pitch sensitivity since the view is set higher and also increased the X,Y and Z axis in order to move my head around for the side panels.

[RazorbackNL]

Haven't seen it mentioned here before but TrackIR also is active in F2 outside view now since the update. It doesn't pan the view around the aircraft like the mouse or keyboard would do but it turns the view away from the aircraft.

Is this part of a new feature or is it also a bug? If it is a new feature please make it an optional one.

[Ilyushka00]

Same problem here, the new update completely wrecked the cockpit view!! For me it's unplayable at the moment. I can't even pan up when looking to the sides. Hope this gets fixed real soon. 2.0 is still fine.

[Enduro14]

It works perfectly fine some of you need to make curve adjustments in your trac ir software. Not everybody's screen size is the same. Also you can make eye point adjustments once done like I did I found it is a much better system. We have an actual head in the pit now. This is an enhancement not a bug.

[Texac]

It is not a problem/bug because it is an enhancement for the TrackIR view. If it's meant to be like that to get a realistic view I have to deal with it and change my TIR settings.

 

Anyway the view was perfect before the changes came and it was comfortable for some of us.

[shakamaca]

Happened to me too with 1.5.4 in A10C.

I have no snap views saved (don't even know what they are) but I am also pressed against the HUD and can't look at the MFCDs after centering the tracker.

 

I also see the "Head tracking disabled" message whenever I look too far to one of the edges. And I feel these edges are much more narrow now than before. I have problems looking at the communication controls now.

 

A sort of workaround I found is to lean in towards the tracker before you center.

This way your center is closer to the tracker so when you lean back and sit normal again then your view becomes kind of like pre 1.5.4. But I still feel the viewing angles are more restricted and I am having more problems than before to use controls in the cockpit.

[Coxy_99]

TIR is terrible even using the TIR mod just does not feel right with the head movement hope theres a fix soon.

[FSKRipper]

Adjusted the default view a bit and I'm fine with the new TIR5 behaviour :music_whistling: