More 1st-2nd generation jet aircraft

[AlQaholic]

I recently got the MiG-15 module for DCS a few months back and I'm loving it but one of my main problems is that there aren't many Korean War servers to play on and if I happen to find one it usually is sparsely populated. This is one of the reasons why we should get more 1st or 2nd gen aircraft into the game as it would mean more people would play on those servers.

 

Furthermore, I believe the amount of dogfights that happen in game is severely lacking. As it stands, a lot of the aircraft we currently have are more oriented around BVR combat and missiles which can lead to fights ending in seconds and isn't always fun in my opinion. Don't get me wrong, missiles are cool but so are gunfights. If more of the older generation jets were added then more emphasis would be put on guns rather than missiles as they were still in their early stages. However, this doesn't mean they would be out of the question as planes like the MiG-19 and F-100 were capable of using them though they tended to be ineffective in combat.

 

In addition, there aren't many games that I see do 1st and 2nd gen aircraft any justice. Incorporating more of these aircraft into DCS would make for an awesome experience in my opinion and they would get the best of both worlds, dogfighting and missile combat. Plus who wouldn't want to mess around with some of that old Cold War tech? :thumbup:

 

 

For starters, here are two planes from the second gen that I think would make great additions:

 

 

English Electric Lightning

 

 

 

 

 

MiG-19

 

 

[agentdarnell]

VEAO is making the electric lighting as well as a few other early jets. Their roadmap can be seen http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=127100

[probad]

i dont think lack of selection is the cause of mig vs sabers being relatively unpopular, its more like 1st gen occupies an awkward zone where they require more bfm finesse than most 4thgen pilots care to acquire but don't offer anything ww2 propheads really want.

 

plenty of people always say "oh yeah mig vs saber is fun let's do it sometime" and then the rare occasion where you do get people together they tire out and give up after 20 minutes. the people who do play mig vs sabers are really in the end the only people who care about mig vs saber, it's not complicated.

 

that said though i'd love to experience more 50-60 eras planes, they are all special.

Edited July 30, 2016 by probad

[theropod]

any 1st or 2nd generation jet would be awesome but that would be "must have" for me:joystick:

[NRG-Vampire]

any 1st or 2nd generation jet would be awesome but that would be "must have" for me:joystick:

 

yeah, F-104 and F-105 needed as well :thumbup:

 

 

[Random]

+1 for the choices so far. I think my enthusiasm for the Lightning is well documented.

 

2nd gens fascinate me. As the performance is comparable to more modern aircraft but the avionics and weapons systems are archaic! Usually a couple of missiles just about capable of hitting a straight and level bomber and then its back to a reliance on guns.

 

May I add the Draken?

 

Edited July 31, 2016 by Random

[theropod]

yeah, F-104 and F-105 needed as well :thumbup:

 

 

F-104 also "must have" for me:thumbup:

 

i hope someone will develope all of these aircrafts on future!

[Svend_Dellepude]

F-104 also "must have" for me:thumbup:

 

i hope someone will develope all of these aircrafts on future!

 

The only thing that plane was really good at was, killing it's pilot! :D

[carss]

F-100 and the F-104!!! Please both those planes are insane!!

[QuiGon]

The following 1st and 2nd gen fighter jets are currently in devlopment or planned for DCS:

 

ED:

- Me 262

 

VEAO:

- Hunter Hawker

- Dehaviland Venom

- Dehaviland Vampire

- Gloster Meteor

- English Electric Lightning

 

Polychop:

- Ho 229

[WinterH]

Mirage III is also considered a 2nd gen fighter and is in Razbam's pipeline.

 

Some of later 2nd gens are kind of similar to 3rd gens, just somewhat less capable. They could potentially compete against, or fly strike missions with 3rd gens with numerical advantage, could prove interesting :).

 

In fact, MiG-21 and F-5 were considered 2nd generation fighters, but Bis and E variants are 3rd. Some of the later Mirage III and V types probably wouldn't be 2nd gen anymore either.

 

Even though I prefer 3rd gen more, I do like some 2nd gen fighters like F-100 and MiG-19, perhaps even F-104. Oh and the Draken, I'd love a Draken, shame it only has crappy AA missiles but it's still an amazing bit of obscure goodness. I mean how cool is a 50s jet that can pull off a Cobra maneuver :D?

[QuiGon]

Lots of Draken fans here, but apparently no one wants a Tunnan? :D

 

 

That's one of the ugliest birds ever build :D

[funkyfranky]

That's one of the ugliest birds ever build :D

Wow, that's really ugly! :surprise:

[Svend_Dellepude]

Lots of Draken fans here, but apparently no one wants a Tunnan? :D

 

 

That's one of the ugliest birds ever build :D

 

:D A chubby MiG! :D

[archer86]

I wish to fly with Su-7 Fitter.

[ST0RM]

The Hunter would be a great addition. Hopefully we wont have to wait 5 years for it.

 

-Jeff

[bigian]

Great list of planes on VEAO and their Hawk is superb !!!! I would add the F4 Phantom, would love to fly it in DCS !!!

[Kev2go]

i agree F105D thundercheif and F100D/F super sabre are must haves. having a Mig17F, and Mig19 as earlier russian aircraft would be great too.

[QuiGon]

Great list of planes on VEAO and their Hawk is superb !!!! I would add the F4 Phantom, would love to fly it in DCS !!!

 

But the Phantom is a 3rd generation fighter by all means.

[Krupi]

You are all wrong what you all want is this...

 

 

 

Hawker Sea Hawk mesmerisingly beautiful aircraft

[mattebubben]

Oh and the Draken, I'd love a Draken, shame it only has crappy AA missiles but it's still an amazing bit of obscure goodness. I mean how cool is a 50s jet that can pull off a Cobra maneuver :D?

 

The Drakens missiles are not that bad though.

 

The Swedish Drakens carried RB24Js in their late careers (Aim-9J/P)

and while not an all aspect missile it was still decent.

 

The Finns used both Aim-9s and K-13Ms on their Drakens and the Austrians Acquired All aspect Aim-9P5s for use on their Drakens in the 90s.

 

In general the Draken has no worse missiles then the Mig-21 has.

 

Since the Draken has a Radar guided missile that is pretty comparable to the R-3R performance wise

(RB27)

and it has Aim9s (Both Older Aim-9Bs and the newer RB 24J which is a member of the Aim-9J/P Family of Sidewinders)

And also the Aim-4 which has gotten a bit of a undeservedly bad rep (Swedish RB28/Aim4s were also modified and should be better then the US onces used in Vietnam)

But a large part of why it the Aim4 got such a bad rep was due to being used outside of its envelope and for things it was not ment to do so it would be interesting to have as well.

 

And the Swedish J35J (J35Fs upgraded in the 80s) could carry 6 missiles

(Either 6 Aim-9s or 2 Radar guided RB 28/Aim-26 and 4 Aim-9s)

so it has comparable carrying capacity as the Mig-21 (If the Mig-21 uses R-60s)

 

So over all it has no worse missiles then most other aircraft of the timeframe.

 

And it should be able to match the Mig-21Bis and F-5E without to much trouble (even though the Draken is a bit earlier with the Last New built J35s were delivered at the same time as the First Mig-21Bis and F-5Es)

 

Also depends on the variant etc.

 

But the Draken generally had no worse missiles then other comparable aircraft of the timeframe.

 

Sure by the 90s the missiles of the Swedish Drakens were no longer top of the line but they were not the worst either and the Austrian Drakens with their Aim-9P5s were "Ok".

[QuiGon]

You are all wrong what you all want is this...

 

 

Hawker Sea Hawk mesmerisingly beautiful aircraft

 

 

Why is it smoking? :D

[Capn kamikaze]

Hawker Hunter would be amazing.

[QuiGon]

The Finns used both Aim-9s and K-13Ms on their Drakens and the Austrians Acquired All aspect Aim-9P5s for use on their Drakens in the 90s.

Some background on the austrian Drakens: They flew with guns only until then (because of some rules of their neutrality or so) but when the war in Yugoslavia came to the austrian borders they went to high alert, because the fights were happening right at the border and there were reports of yugoslavian units that planned to cross the border. After yugoslavian MiGs violated the border multiple times during their bombing missions near the border Austria put their Drakens on QRA to intercept them, but no encounter occured in the air.

After that experience Austria decided to acquire AIM-9s for their Drakens, because they would have been at a real disadvantage guns only against missile armed MiGs.

Edited August 3, 2016 by QuiGon

[Coyote Duster]

my honest opinion on why the korean servers are ghosted would be because its so hard trying to spot the other jet, its hard enough as it is in ww2, double the average speeds and closure rates and it can get discouraging, and for 2nd generation id chose the delta dagger