Jump to content

Why not more map development?


Boris
 Share

Recommended Posts

DCS World has a great range of aircraft by now that provide hours and hours of action, enough to keep us busy for ages. Sure there are some highly anticipated aircraft still to come, but I have yet to touch some of the modules I have bought.

 

What really is lacking, is more environments and content, such as campaigns and missions, for these aircraft. It's now arguably as or more important than the aircraft themselves.

 

That begs the question, why do so many 3rd party developers prominently focus their attention on aircraft?

Map development could be far more lucrative, as buyers would include the majority of the DCS user base, the choice being based less on preference, but out of a desire for more variety.

 

Is it because map making is still closely guarded by ED? Or could there already be a number of unannounced 3rd parties be working maps?

If so, why are we hearing nothing about it? Given the long development times, it would be a shame if many more maps aren't already being worked on (in addition to the ones we know about). When will DCS World live up to its name? :)

PC Specs / Hardware: MSI z370 Gaming Plus Mainboard, Intel 8700k @ 5GHz, MSI Sea Hawk 2080 Ti @ 2100MHz, 32GB 3200 MHz DDR4 RAM

Displays: Philips BDM4065UC 60Hz 4K UHD Screen, Pimax 8KX

Controllers / Peripherals: VPC MongoosT-50, Thrustmaster Warthog HOTAS, modded MS FFB2/CH Combatstick, MFG Crosswind Pedals, Gametrix JetSeat

OS: Windows 10 Home Creator's Update

Link to comment
Share on other sites

There are already some 3rd party devs working on maps:

 

VEAO

- Duxford (test development map)

- North Africa – Tubruq

- Mach Loop – Welsh Valleys

 

Leatherneck Studios

- Viggen Map

- Iwo Jima (Corsair Map)

- Tomcat Map

 

I think it's no coincidence that with VEAO and LNS the two most professional 3rd party developers (apart from Belsimtek, which is more like a 2nd party developer wink.gif) have taken on the task to create maps. Map creation in DCS is still pretty new and surely requires some effort to do. An effort which might be too big for the smaller 3rd party devs atm. If you read what the VEAO and LNS guys say in the forums (and other places) about their map creation efforts then you get an impression that this is something completly new and difficult to get into.


Edited by QuiGon

Intel i7-12700K @ 8x5GHz+4x3.8GHz + 32 GB DDR5 RAM + Nvidia Geforce RTX 2080 (8 GB VRAM) + M.2 SSD + Windows 10 64Bit

 

DCS Panavia Tornado (IDS) really needs to be a thing!

 

Tornado3 small.jpg

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Despite 3rd parties saying they would, LNS as recently as the Viggen stream couldnt confirm any work on them and there has been no tools released from ED, AND we know that the mapping system is changing radically for the infamous 2.5. (Enough to put 2.5 behind by months due to redoing the Caucasus, various Wags quotes for this)

 

If someone is working on a map they are doing it on as yet undisclosed tool/method on as yet unreleased format of DCS World.

 

I don't think any work is being done outside of ED until they complete 2.5.

 

When it becomes available, there will be a massive interest 100% full steam ahead on doing so, and I'll be investing a shed load of time myself personally.

 

There are already some 3rd party devs working on maps:

 

VEAO

- Duxford (test development map)

- North Africa – Tubruq

- Mach Loop – Welsh Valleys

 

Leatherneck Studios

- Viggen Map

- Iwo Jima (Corsair Map)

- Tomcat Map

 

I think it's no coincidence that with VEAO and LNS the two most professional 3rd party developers (apart from Belsimtek, which is more like a 2nd party developer wink.gif) have taken on the task to create maps. Map creation in DCS is still pretty new and surely requires some effort to do. An effort which might be too big for the smaller 3rd party devs atm.

___________________________________________________________________________

SIMPLE SCENERY SAVING * SIMPLE GROUP SAVING * SIMPLE STATIC SAVING *

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • ED Team

Simply put, it takes time.

 

Caucasus is being redone

NTTR is in Alpha

Normandy is in testing

Straits of Hormuz is in development

 

and that is just what ED are dealing with, I am sure will see more in the future, but as I have said it take's time.

smallCATPILOT.PNG.04bbece1b27ff1b2c193b174ec410fc0.PNG

Forum rules - DCS Crashing? Try this first - Cleanup and Repair - Discord BIGNEWY#8703 - Youtube - Patch Status

Windows 11, NVIDIA MSI RTX 3090, Intel® i9-10900K 3.70GHz, 5.30GHz Turbo, Corsair Hydro Series H150i Pro, 64GB DDR @3200, ASUS ROG Strix Z490-F Gaming, HP Reverb G2

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Simply put, it takes time.

 

Caucasus is being redone

NTTR is in Alpha

Normandy is in testing

Straits of Hormuz is in development

 

and that is just what ED are dealing with, I am sure will see more in the future, but as I have said it take's time.

 

Well yeah, you're right, at least we're already getting some new maps relatively soon.

 

Development in DCS does indeed take quite a while, which is why it would be nice to know that more is already in the pipe. I don't know that 3rd party developers have acted on their plans yet. If developers do indeed need to wait for the release of 2.5, and considering the very long development cycles, it seems like it could be a number of years before we see the next swathe of maps.

 

I wish we could make community maps. Spread the work, let us help.

 

Me too. But I also appreciate that ED has very high standards of development. This is understandable, as maps are not static and need to interact with the existing aircraft in terms of ATC and navigation.

PC Specs / Hardware: MSI z370 Gaming Plus Mainboard, Intel 8700k @ 5GHz, MSI Sea Hawk 2080 Ti @ 2100MHz, 32GB 3200 MHz DDR4 RAM

Displays: Philips BDM4065UC 60Hz 4K UHD Screen, Pimax 8KX

Controllers / Peripherals: VPC MongoosT-50, Thrustmaster Warthog HOTAS, modded MS FFB2/CH Combatstick, MFG Crosswind Pedals, Gametrix JetSeat

OS: Windows 10 Home Creator's Update

Link to comment
Share on other sites

There are already some 3rd party devs working on maps:

 

VEAO

- Duxford (test development map)

- North Africa – Tubruq

- Mach Loop – Welsh Valleys

 

VEAO Map projects actually have on Hold.

More news to the front

My Rig: AMD Ryzen 7 1800X Eight-Core  3.60 GHz / Crosshair VI Hero / Corsair H115i / 48 GB DDR4 RAM Vergance RGB Pro / GTX-1080 8 GB RAM / HD 1Tb / SSD 2Tb/2x1Tb / Warthog / 2 MDF / TFPR / Track Ir V / Logitech G633

DCS: Roadmap (unofficial): https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=116893

DCS: List of Vacant models: https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?p=4076891#post4076891

Silver_Dragon Youtube

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Despite 3rd parties saying they would, LNS as recently as the Viggen stream couldnt confirm any work on them and there has been no tools released from ED, AND we know that the mapping system is changing radically for the infamous 2.5. (Enough to put 2.5 behind by months due to redoing the Caucasus, various Wags quotes for this)

 

Indeed, and that's exactly what I meant when I said this:

If you read what the VEAO and LNS guys say in the forums (and other places) about their map creation efforts then you get an impression that this is something completly new and difficult to get into.
But IIRC LNS has an entire team dedicated to map development in Poland.
Edited by QuiGon

Intel i7-12700K @ 8x5GHz+4x3.8GHz + 32 GB DDR5 RAM + Nvidia Geforce RTX 2080 (8 GB VRAM) + M.2 SSD + Windows 10 64Bit

 

DCS Panavia Tornado (IDS) really needs to be a thing!

 

Tornado3 small.jpg

Link to comment
Share on other sites

IIRC LNS has an entire team for map development in Poland.

 

This sounds encouraging. I would welcome the idea of entire 3rd party teams specializing on maps only.

PC Specs / Hardware: MSI z370 Gaming Plus Mainboard, Intel 8700k @ 5GHz, MSI Sea Hawk 2080 Ti @ 2100MHz, 32GB 3200 MHz DDR4 RAM

Displays: Philips BDM4065UC 60Hz 4K UHD Screen, Pimax 8KX

Controllers / Peripherals: VPC MongoosT-50, Thrustmaster Warthog HOTAS, modded MS FFB2/CH Combatstick, MFG Crosswind Pedals, Gametrix JetSeat

OS: Windows 10 Home Creator's Update

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It's still a moving target for third parties to hit. It's enough that their existing modules require maintenance after release throughout the changes to DCSW.

 

And whilst i'm sure it does take time to produce these, once any tool gets out there's a small army waiting to put their combined efforts into it at a production level that's not aiming up to the current fantastic standards. Look at Luckybob and NTTR in its first incarnation, not nearly as long to get something in that could be useful and we never got to try that again.

___________________________________________________________________________

SIMPLE SCENERY SAVING * SIMPLE GROUP SAVING * SIMPLE STATIC SAVING *

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I would be quite surprised if ED do release a tool to the general public. I highly doubt it.

 

I suspect any development will most likely be in cooperation with licensed 3rd party dev teams.

PC Specs / Hardware: MSI z370 Gaming Plus Mainboard, Intel 8700k @ 5GHz, MSI Sea Hawk 2080 Ti @ 2100MHz, 32GB 3200 MHz DDR4 RAM

Displays: Philips BDM4065UC 60Hz 4K UHD Screen, Pimax 8KX

Controllers / Peripherals: VPC MongoosT-50, Thrustmaster Warthog HOTAS, modded MS FFB2/CH Combatstick, MFG Crosswind Pedals, Gametrix JetSeat

OS: Windows 10 Home Creator's Update

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I would be quite surprised if ED do release a tool to the general public. I highly doubt it.

 

I suspect any development will most likely be in cooperation with licensed 3rd party dev teams.

 

That seems likely since that is what they have said, repeatedly. :smartass:

  • Like 1

ASUS ROG Maximus VIII Hero, i7-6700K, Noctua NH-D14 Cooler, Crucial 32GB DDR4 2133, Samsung 950 Pro NVMe 256GB, Samsung EVO 250GB & 500GB SSD, 2TB Caviar Black, Zotac GTX 1080 AMP! Extreme 8GB, Corsair HX1000i, Phillips BDM4065UC 40" 4k monitor, VX2258 TouchScreen, TIR 5 w/ProClip, TM Warthog, VKB Gladiator Pro, Saitek X56, et. al., MFG Crosswind Pedals #1199, VolairSim Pit, Rift CV1 :thumbup:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The problem with the map development seems to be the slow process because reality conserns.

Like why not just let buildings and roads be imagination based?

 

There are lots of free (public domain) height maps from all over the world for commercial use,and lots of can be done when the mapping tools allow autogeneration of urban areas, forests, and even connect roads etc.

i7-8700k, 32GB 2666Mhz DDR4, 2x 2080S SLI 8GB, Oculus Rift S.

i7-8700k, 16GB 2666Mhz DDR4, 1080Ti 11GB, 27" 4K, 65" HDR 4K.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I would be quite surprised if ED do release a tool to the general public. I highly doubt it.

 

I remember it has been said they won't. The software required to create terrain is tied with the software used to create modules, and that is pretty much regarded as an industrial secret to them.

 

With that being said, I also remember they said they would consider a 3rd party application purely for the creation of maps, if that party could prove they have the required skills and talents with a portfolio.

Check my F-15C guide

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think ED is taking Maps very seriously and it shows. As BIGNEWY said, there are 3 maps in development in addition to the alpha release of NTTR (the new Caucasus map has all new assets, vegetation, textures, mesh resolution increased by 400% - almost totally new vs current).

 

But since these DLC maps are a new feature, they need to work out the issues and move in a stepwise fashion. It would be unproductive to create assets for 5 different maps only to realize there is an issue after integration and need to redo everything. Actually, the new lighting system (which uses PBR) has already required Normandy to undergo a rework of all assets and textures.

https://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=3001310&postcount=64

 

Also, Leatherneck has confirmed that they are still working on maps with a team devoted more less just to it (and AI, etc).

It remains to be seen (and announced) what maps they are working on - though something for the WWII Pacific theater remains highly likely (both Iwo Jima and Okinawa have been mentioned, but not confirmed). There is supposed to be a map for the F-14, but the location and timeframe are still not known.

 

I also agree that new maps are every bit as important as new aircraft modules since I may enjoy operating my favorite aircraft in a variety of theaters and campaigns instead of learning a new aircraft. But ED has been creating aircraft modules since 2008, but they just started with maps. Not to mention the fact that these maps seem to be colossal projects that take quite a while.

 

But just the addition of Normandy, NTTR, and the new Caucasus will make DCS feel really different and bring the WWII modules home. All a matter of time....:)

 

-Nick

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

What really is lacking, is more environments and content, such as campaigns and missions, for these aircraft. It's now arguably as or more important than the aircraft themselves.

 

That begs the question, why do so many 3rd party developers prominently focus their attention on aircraft?

 

^^^^^ Amen! and +1 to this ^^^^^^

i7 8700K @ Stock - Win10 64 - 32 RAM - GTX 1070 SC - 55 inch 4k Display

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It's all about the money. The ROI on plane modules must be better than on maps and campaigns, else there would be more maps and campaigns in the works.

 

I highly doubt that ROI is an issue here. Many aircraft modules are quite niche and take many years to produce. Based on a few of the other informed posts, I'd say it actually is a case of it just being too early (ie. the modular map system not being ready).

PC Specs / Hardware: MSI z370 Gaming Plus Mainboard, Intel 8700k @ 5GHz, MSI Sea Hawk 2080 Ti @ 2100MHz, 32GB 3200 MHz DDR4 RAM

Displays: Philips BDM4065UC 60Hz 4K UHD Screen, Pimax 8KX

Controllers / Peripherals: VPC MongoosT-50, Thrustmaster Warthog HOTAS, modded MS FFB2/CH Combatstick, MFG Crosswind Pedals, Gametrix JetSeat

OS: Windows 10 Home Creator's Update

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Heres a little motivational video in hopes a vietnam map is on the horizon. We NEED this!!!!

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Ryo02Qw1-c&t=99s

 

motivational video? so nice looking at people being burned ah?? first they killed thousands of civilians in that "motivationl footage" , secondly the music is pure garbage.

We need an european scenario like the balcans or iraq area .

  • Like 2

  • CPU : Intel i7 8700k@5.0ghz cooled by Noctua NH-D15 / Motherboard:Asorck Z370 Taichi / RAM: 32GB GSkill TridentZ @3600mhz / SSD: 500GB Nvme Samsung 970 evo+1 TB Sabrent Nvme M2 / GPU:Asus Strix OC 2080TI / Monitor: LG 34KG950F Ultrawide / Trackir 5 proclip/ VIRPIL CM2 BASE + CM2 GRIP + F148 GRIP + 200M EXTENSION /VKB T-Rudder MKIV rudder /Case: Fractal Design R6 Define black

Link to comment
Share on other sites

But I also appreciate that ED has very high standards of development. This is understandable, as maps are not static and need to interact with the existing aircraft in terms of ATC and navigation.

 

This! :thumbup:

PC: AMD Ryzen 9 5950X | MSI Suprim GeForce 3090 TI | ASUS Prime X570-P | 128GB DDR4 3600 RAM | 2TB Samsung 870 EVO SSD | Win10 Pro 64bit

Gear: HP Reverb G2 | JetPad FSE | VKB Gunfighter Pro Mk.III w/ MCG Ultimate

 

VKBNA_LOGO_SM.png

VKBcontrollers.com

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • ED Team

More maps are going to come from ED after SoH, they just arent ready to discuss them until they get a little closer.

 

The map tools are quite complex and have taken a lot of work to develop them. This includes the standalone editor, as well as 3D Studio Max plugins. They are still being developed as they hammer down the standard for these maps, the map tech has even evolved as we have been getting NTTR and are close to Normandy and the New Caucasus map.

 

Anyone with the skill and ability to do this type of work can apply to ED to get access to these tools, but giving them away freely isnt part of the plan right now.

 

I believe other 3rd parties are actively working with the ED map team, helping with testing and developing the tools as well as developing their own maps. Of course until these projects are closer to release, we wont get much info.

 

Its not what you want to hear of course, but its where we are at. I feel like once we hit the merge and more maps get put out, the maps will start moving much faster through development.

64Sig.png
Forum RulesMy YouTube • My Discord - NineLine#0440• **How to Report a Bug**

1146563203_makefg(6).png.82dab0a01be3a361522f3fff75916ba4.png  80141746_makefg(1).png.6fa028f2fe35222644e87c786da1fabb.png  28661714_makefg(2).png.b3816386a8f83b0cceab6cb43ae2477e.png  389390805_makefg(3).png.bca83a238dd2aaf235ea3ce2873b55bc.png  216757889_makefg(4).png.35cb826069cdae5c1a164a94deaff377.png  1359338181_makefg(5).png.e6135dea01fa097e5d841ee5fb3c2dc5.png

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 Share

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...