No More Steam Keys Usable on e-store DCS?

[shagrat]

Well...the only one losing would be ED tho, as Valve takes a cut from everything.

 

That is why they are pushing their own proprietary e-shop, no third parties taking money.

 

I used to make the argument "get the standalone and enjoy twice the sales", but can´t anymore.

 

I switched to standalone a while ago...I still don´t know if it was a valve requirement or an ED decision, yet I think negatively about it.

Honestly I don't think ED is "pushing their own store".

Valve "encouraged" them to not use StarForce anymore on the Steam platform.

We may have different perceptions of "encouragement", but the fact is with Steam using their own proprietary DRM the result is no Steam DRM keys activate anything else, but products bought through Steam.

 

To me this looks like Valve enforcing their "policies" on ED and not the other way round. :dunno:

[streakeagle]

The whole point of using Steam is to have a portable game library that can be installed on as many PCs as you wish without licensing issues. Retaining ED's chosen DRM in addition to Steam DRM was the worst of both worlds. I figured out right away the best option for me was to buy directly from ED even though the keys were originally fully compatible in either direction. Doing so has ensured that all of my purchases are available in the same install and gives me access to so many early release options that DCS doesn't get on Steam.

 

 

If the Steam release had been Starforce independent from the beginning, I would have been tempted to get all Steam purchases to avoid dealing with activation/deactivation hassles. But as it stands now, I am fully committed to a pure ED standalone install and can't foresee a reason to re-purchase everything just to have Steam DRM without Starforce.

[NineLine]

The issue with the keys creating an even more confusing split between the products is almost positively going to result in a lot of frustration, regret, and loss of interest for customers and potential customers and is sad to see :(.

 

I think this is getting blown out of proportion to some extent. Right now, ED approaches Steam as their userbase not being interested in early access modules. Perhaps if it grows, and with this change, that attitude might change, and after the great merge, they can revisit the subject.

 

Obviously the extra early access branch with NTTR and 2.X makes things trickier. That will change of course.

 

I dont see how this adds confusion right now, people who use Steam use it for a reason, I would guess many dont stress about switching to the standalone, steam makes game management easy. Many would want to stick to Steam for that reason.

[Chrinik]

Honestly I don't think ED is "pushing their own store".

Valve "encouraged" them to not use StarForce anymore on the Steam platform.

We may have different perceptions of "encouragement", but the fact is with Steam using their own proprietary DRM the result is no Steam DRM keys activate anything else, but products bought through Steam.

 

To me this looks like Valve enforcing their "policies" on ED and not the other way round. :dunno:

 

I was referring to ED "pushing their store" by having better and more frequent sales and bundles, bonus point system, more products and early access beta modules, not that this current issue is a move by them to push it.

They´d definately want people to purchase directly through them, what company wouldn´t?

[Rangi]

I think this is getting blown out of proportion to some extent. Right now, ED approaches Steam as their userbase not being interested in early access modules. Perhaps if it grows, and with this change, that attitude might change, and after the great merge, they can revisit the subject.

 

Obviously the extra early access branch with NTTR and 2.X makes things trickier. That will change of course.

 

I dont see how this adds confusion right now, people who use Steam use it for a reason, I would guess many dont stress about switching to the standalone, steam makes game management easy. Many would want to stick to Steam for that reason.

 

While I agree with you about the confusion, I do think there may be some frustration. Say I was a new player discovering dcs on steam, I give it a go and I fall in love with it and buy a few modules. So I start looking into it more, come and visit these forums and then there is the "aha" moment and I realise that if I want to best support my new love by cutting out the middle man and get access to the latest updates and early access modules I have to either have 2 (or more) installs or write off the money I have already put down. I can see that scenario being a little frustrating. Perhaps ED could look at some sort of system where players looking to migrate from steam could get a one off discount for a small administration fee to come into the fold. I haven't really thought it though so if there is a hole in the idea, let me know. Also with Wags mentioning in one of the Normandy videos a "better copy protection" coming, maybe this is just a temporary situation, if so, I would love to hear how it works.

[Cnuke]

One unified client and 1 unified beta client. Without ever forcing to run a steamclient but it can detect all (dlc) ownership on (active)Steam or/and ED's database. Also offline playing remains possible.

 

After the merge of maps this should be possible, or not?

[imacken]

Why does everyone keep talking about cutting out the middle man when using standalone?

Standalone involves payment to Starforce for protection, and maintaining an e-commerce web site. Not to mention commission to PayPal and the CC companies.

All these costs would be saved by moving 100% to Steam, and be included in the 'middle man' cut.

Why do almost ALL PC games devs host their products on Steam? Why do none of them have standalone versions? The answer is obvious, exposure to a HUGE user base and a simple management system rather than relying on potential new users stumbling across a small niche web site, as well as taking on the expense and effort of marketing the product.

[Hellfire257]

Starforce really needs to go. What good has it ever been? I've only ever had problems with it. As usual, DRM only inconveniences the paying customer.

[mkiii]

Amen to that Hellfire.

 

If I could migrate all my modules to steam right now, I would do so.

 

Just today, Starforce was going through its occasional "This module (that I am showing you the key for right here on screen) has no key... CLICK! I already have a key... CLICK! This module is already registered BS. I dont recall ever having that happen on steam.

 

And (I know.. don't start a sentence with and) let's not forget the Mig-21 DRM fiasco....

[BitMaster]

Starforce really needs to go. What good has it ever been? I've only ever had problems with it. As usual, DRM only inconveniences the paying customer.

 

+1

[imacken]

Starforce really needs to go. What good has it ever been? I've only ever had problems with it. As usual, DRM only inconveniences the paying customer.

+2

Starforce has caused all sorts of issues for many years now. Long before DCS.

I do use the standalone SF version of DCS, but I would love to see everything move to Steam with 2.5.

[tom1502]

It's simple enough to choose one platform, then stick with it.

 

If you buy all steam licenses and only run steam - no problem.

 

If you buy all DCS World stand alone licenses - no problem.

 

Why ever would you buy half on one and half on another knowing the licenses won't work on a platform you didn't buy it for?

 

And bear in mind, DCS stand alone licenses haven't worked on steam for a long time now. All you have to do is decide now which platform you want to stick with. What's the big deal guys?

 

The 'big deal' is that sometimes the Steam sale is better than the DCS World sale. I have bought some modules through Steam but I don't play DCS on steam as I can't get early access modules or the updates.

The problem now is that someone new comes along. Really interested in DCS and buys a couple of modules. They then find that they want to fly something that is in early release. So they go to the DCS site and buy the module. They then find that they can't play the new module in Stream. So they download DCS World from the site. They then think they'll play with all of their modules in one place, but they can't. They need two installs of the same game.

Now it's not massive, it just needs to be made clear on Steam that this is the case, and that DCS is available as a stand-alone game with early access modules available in beta, or whatever. Whether Steam allow this I don't know.

 

It just causes issues for new adopters of DCS.

[Dehuman]

Now it's not massive, it just needs to be made clear on Steam that this is the case, and that DCS is available as a stand-alone game with early access modules available in beta, or whatever. Whether Steam allow this I don't know.

 

It just causes issues for new adopters of DCS.

 

It is stated in bold on the Steam shop page for the M-2000C.

[iLOVEwindmills]

It is stated in bold on the Steam shop page for the M-2000C.

 

Sure, but this does not make clear what the implications of this message really are. Would a new player know what the difference is between the Steam version and the E-shop version? Would they know about how beta/early access works in DCS and how long modules stay in beta? Would they know what beta modules are coming up that they might be interested in buying, and are consequently locked out of such content until they are out of beta?

 

 

Sure the message is there, but it requires an inordinate amount of research to be done on part of a potential new customer in order to make the right choice.

 

The fact that there are essentially no upsides to being on Steam, only massive drawbacks, is not clear at all from just this message.

[cichlidfan]

It is stated in bold on the Steam shop page for the M-2000C.

 

All I see is the usual message that says...

 

This content requires the base game DCS World on Steam in order to play.

 

That doesn't indicate anything about the existence of the standalone version or what the up/down sides are.

[BitMaster]

To get rid off SF I would also go to Steam, happily. Granted they allow Beta and NTTR etc..

[BIGNEWY]

All I see is the usual message that says...

 

 

 

That doesn't indicate anything about the existence of the standalone version or what the up/down sides are.

 

It is in the module info

[cichlidfan]

To get rid off SF I would go to Steam. Granted they allow Beta and NTTR etc..

 

Starforce will go away for all modules eventually, IMHO. If you look at the three reasons given by ED for the change, you can notice that reasons two and three are impacted only slightly by this change when you consider that ED currently has 27 DLC items on Steam that still use Starforce keys.

 

If customer dissatisfaction and CC fraud are significant factors in this decision then the only logical path is to remove Starforce from all DLC instead of only doing so for less than 5% of the product line.

 

EDIT2: This also makes me wonder how much extra work it will be to maintain a Starforce and non-Starforce version, considering both coding and testing time will have to be duplicated.

 

EDIT: Thanks BN, though I think that needs a red box around it, or other highlight.

Edited May 14, 2017 by cichlidfan

[MonnieRock]

 

If I could migrate all my modules to steam right now, I would do so.

 

I would do the same.

 

1.) DCS is the only "entertainment" software I have that is standalone.

 

2.) Consistent download speeds from Steam

 

3.) No more dance with "You have X Activations left" when doing clean installs if using Steam

 

4.) The optional Steam Overlay, Friend's List, Chat System, is great for multiplayer environment.

 

I had the Flanker series, Lock-on series, Flaming Cliffs, and was excited to stay with Eagle as a standalone because of the vision of "DCS World". But "World" has turned into "Universe".

 

This "World" that is a "Universe"

1.) DCSW 1.5

2.) DCSW Open Beta

3.) DCSW 2.0 Open Alpha( since November of 2015)

4.) DCSW 2.1 for Normandy Backers

 

I am stuck with the standalone because I gave Eagle Dynamics a chance but, all purchases have been stopped until this "early access, open alpha, open beta, Steam versions, standalone versions, Universe" gets back to being a World.

 

 

EDIT: Thanks BN, though I think that needs a red box around it, or other highlight.

 

In my opinion, it should be on DCS Front Page at Steam Store , not just a module.

Edited May 14, 2017 by MonnieRock

[cichlidfan]

Items 4 in both of your lists are invalid. The first one because you can add DCS to your Steam Library as a non-Steam game and have access to all of those features. The second because the v2.1 is a limited time 'demo' version which is isolated to only 146 users.

 

EDIT: Btw, the biggest downsides to Steam only DCS is that there is no way to prevent an update (Steam used to support blocking updates but that is no longer the case) and you can't have both a beta and a released version.

Edited May 14, 2017 by cichlidfan

[MonnieRock]

Items 4 in both of your lists are invalid. The first one because you can add DCS to your Steam Library as a non-Steam game and have access to all of those features. The second because the v2.1 is a limited time 'demo' version which is isolated to only 146 users.

 

EDIT: Btw, the biggest downsides to Steam only DCS is that there is no way to prevent an update (Steam used to support blocking updates but that is no longer the case) and you can't have both a beta and a released version.

 

Yes, you can add DCS to non-steam games but steam will not push the updates.

 

You can in the steam options for each title to select how you want updates handled on steam titles, not non-steam titles.

 

Yes, v2.1 is a "demo" but still requires a v2.1 install instead of using v2.0. We shall see once it is available to non-backers

[cichlidfan]

Yes, you can add DCS to non-steam games but steam will not push the updates.

 

The Steam features you mentioned will be available. You did not mention updates.

 

You can in the steam options for each title to select how you want updates handled on steam titles, not non-steam titles.

 

Again, that isn't what you mentioned in your previous post and you still cannot prevent updates to Steam titles anymore.

 

Yes, v2.1 is a "demo" but still requires a v2.1 install instead of using v2.0. We shall see once it is available to non-backers

 

It has already been stated that Normandy will be part of the update to the Open Alpha branch bringing it to v2.1.

[ApoNOOB]

ED also tried early access but Steam users made it clear they weren't interested in incomplete products on Steam and wanted to wait till release.

 

This is straight out wrong. If you take the time to look at the relevant threads you will notice that most of the active users in the community really want the same release dates / early access / beta etc. as the standalone community.

 

Major frustrations come from the delay between steam&standalone versions. Yes there is always a vocal minority that whines at every issue, but it's intellectually dishonest to suggest the steam community likes to wait months for releases.

 

Items 4 in both of your lists are invalid. The first one because you can add DCS to your Steam Library as a non-Steam game and have access to all of those features.

 

Not true, this won't work like you suggest. To have full access to steam features the game needs to be fully installed. (Gametime tracking, community screenshots etc.) This pisses me off a bit, since we get this a lot as 'counter argument' against Steam client. And it's plain wrong. :)

Edited May 14, 2017 by ApoNOOB

[cichlidfan]

Not true, this won't work like you suggest. To have full access to steam features the game needs to be fully installed. (Gametime tracking, community screenshots etc.) This pisses me off a bit, since we get this a lot as 'counter argument' against Steam client. And it's plain wrong. :)

 

Nobody said anything about full access to Steam features. The items mentioned by MonnieRock...

 

4.) The optional Steam Overlay, Friend's List, Chat System, is great for multiplayer environment.

 

...are available for a non-Steam game. Granted there are features that will not be available, but MR did not mention any of them and such things as game time and screen shots are certainly not of much added value to the multiplayer environment.

 

Btw, I am not against Steam at all. If they would restore the ability to suspend updates for a given product, like the way it used to work, then I would be a happy camper.

Edited May 14, 2017 by cichlidfan

[Slick Fork]

Uggh, I'm sure it's been mentioned already but the LAST thing this community needs is another installation branch that's incompatible with everything else.

 

I like Steam because of the sales, the flexibility in payment options (e.g. steam gift card) but the big one is I get it in NON USD pricing and the exchange rate is ALWAYS better than the one my bank gives me on my credit cards.

 

I know why people dislike steam and can appreciate their arguments as valid but for myself I'd be thrilled if ED moved everything to steam. I currently buy my modules on Steam and use the keys in the stand-alone versions because I also have Nevada, Mirage, Grippen, etc.

 

I would guess that the small percentage steam takes as commission would be more than offset by the exposure to new users buying their first module and getting hooked.