New gun convergence

Ghost_SWE · June 3, 2017

I know this has been asked many times before, but i figure there is a reason for that.

The P51´s convergence is just terrible and it is probably the least accurate in game by far.

With a new damage model coming soon, doing damage will most likely be harder so to hit with as many guns as possible would be ideal.

What do you guys think?

Do you want a new gun convergence?

Davee · June 3, 2017

I know this has been asked many times before, but i figure there is a reason for that.
The P51´s convergence is just terrible and it is probably the least accurate in game by far.
With a new damage model coming soon, doing damage will most likely be harder so to hit with as many guns as possible would be ideal.

What do you guys think?
Do you want a new gun convergence?

Please be more specific!

Have you researched how convergence was set IRL in 1944?

Buzzles · June 4, 2017

The P51´s convergence is just terrible and it is probably the least accurate in game by far.

By least accurate what are you comparing it to?

ED have set it to the general standard for the wartime P51D iirc.

What are you trying to get at?

Are you saying ED's implementation of convergence is wrong?

Or are you saying the pattern they've followed isn't a good one and you'd like a change?

PS: There's been loads of other topics on this. An opinion poll is going to do sweet FA to change anything. Supply some proof that other patterns were used and the details of them and ED will look at it.

Ghost_SWE · June 4, 2017

By least accurate what are you comparing it to?

Well, the other WW2 aircraft with wing mounted guns.

ED have set it to the general standard for the wartime P51D iirc.
Are you saying ED's implementation of convergence is wrong?

I know, but I have been convinced by other people discussing this that there was more then one standard being used.

No. I am saying I want a convergence that is more suited for close range since that is where most of my shooting happens.

I would love to have the option to choose between long and short range in the setup meny.

There's been loads of other topics on this. An opinion poll is going to do sweet FA to change anything. Supply some proof that other patterns were used and the details of them and ED will look at it.

On this I agree. I don´t think they will change anything. But instead of just complaining to my squad mates, I thought i could post here to get an idea of how other people feel about this.

And that is also the reason I´m not going to waste my time going through the same documents that has been brought up not only on this forum, but others too.

If they decide to change it, awesome. If not? well, its not a deal breaker or anything. It is just something I would like. Maybe this should have been in the "wish" section now that i think about it.

Magic Zach · July 4, 2017

I really like your idea with the long and short range options for gun convergence. If there were two standards, why not include them? I think if there was a slider in the rearming window, that'd be overkill, but if there would be a standard OPTION A or OPTION B, or maybe C, cool.

WildBillKelsoe · July 4, 2017

It has been discussed so many times, yet the module is past beta so I think its more difficult to actually do anything at this point. maybe future modules?

Hiromachi · July 4, 2017

Convergence like convergence, first thing to actually fix is ammunition type and load. Currently we have ammunition selection that would be very nice for strafing ground objects or ships, which is four AP rounds and one APIT round.

What we lack is M8 API round which should be predominant in loads against aerial targets.

Second thing I struggle with are tracers, I've tried different graphical settings and reshade but tracers are not helpful at all and barely visible if not invisible at some times.

SnowTiger · July 4, 2017

I completely suck at Air-to-Air combat in general (at least since I moved from Aces High to DCS) but I don't think it has anything to do with the Sites.

Fixed or Gyro, the Range and Wing Span settings are completely adjustable on-the-fly if you set it up either using the keyboard or a wheel or whatever on your Hotas.

You can preset as you desire and change if and whenever you need OR Spray and Pray in Fixed Site Mode regardless of Convergence.

Solty · July 5, 2017

I have already adjusted to the 1000ft convergence we have in DCS. It took time and effort, but it was doable. Still I think we should have the ability to change that in MP. It has been documented by many pilots in their books and interviews.

Convergence like convergence, first thing to actually fix is ammunition type and load. Currently we have ammunition selection that would be very nice for strafing ground objects or ships, which is four AP rounds and one APIT round.
What we lack is M8 API round which should be predominant in loads against aerial targets.

Second thing I struggle with are tracers, I've tried different graphical settings and reshade but tracers are not helpful at all and barely visible if not invisible at some times.

Very much this! +1

M8 API is going to be necessary with the new Damage Model and I agree it will be way more important than the convergence itself. You want to hit the plane and explode it / set it on fire. With AP it is near impossible. With M8 API its quite possible.

HeadHunter52 · July 19, 2017

I have already adjusted to the 1000ft convergence we have in DCS. It took time and effort, but it was doable. Still I think we should have the ability to change that in MP. It has been documented by many pilots in their books and interviews.

Very much this! +1

M8 API is going to be necessary with the new Damage Model and I agree it will be way more important than the convergence itself. You want to hit the plane and explode it / set it on fire. With AP it is near impossible. With M8 API its quite possible.

Yeah, and we wait and wait for what the Stang needs, and every Kraut fights to deny her.

Yo-Yo · July 19, 2017

Well, the other WW2 aircraft with wing mounted guns.

I know, but I have been convinced by other people discussing this that there was more then one standard being used.
No. I am saying I want a convergence that is more suited for close range since that is where most of my shooting happens.
I would love to have the option to choose between long and short range in the setup meny.

On this I agree. I don´t think they will change anything. But instead of just complaining to my squad mates, I thought i could post here to get an idea of how other people feel about this.
And that is also the reason I´m not going to waste my time going through the same documents that has been brought up not only on this forum, but others too.

If they decide to change it, awesome. If not? well, its not a deal breaker or anything. It is just something I would like. Maybe this should have been in the "wish" section now that i think about it.

As new (old :) ) p-51 of 1944 is done, probably it will have N-9 with 1000 ft convergence pattern (not a point). But I really have no idea how it will be possible to effectively pound ground targets having convergence LESS than 1000 ft.

NineLine · July 19, 2017

Still I think we should have the ability to change that in MP. It has been documented by many pilots in their books and interviews.

That was for maybe some Ace Pilots and such, but for the most part, they were set the same for all, based on what was determined to be the best setting for all. Pilots weren't tweaking it every flight...

HeadHunter52 · July 20, 2017

I know it's a poll thread about convergence, but one of the options is "Don't care", and since I don't really, I'll say why...

I'd RATHER see...

The higher octane and MPs

Lighter bird (no IFF)

M8 ammo (and a believable DM for the Krauts)

These things are much more important than convergence.

Solty · July 20, 2017

As new (old :) ) p-51 of 1944 is done, probably it will have N-9 with 1000 ft convergence pattern (not a point). But I really have no idea how it will be possible to effectively pound ground targets having convergence LESS than 1000 ft.

So 109K4 is to stay but the new stang model is going to be given old gunsight? Are you kidding me? Maybe make it D5 while you are at it.:mad:?

As long as there is a Dora and a Kurfurst over Normandy I will not agree to this change or any model below D20!

Edited July 20, 2017 by Solty

NineLine · July 20, 2017

So 109K4 is to stay but the new stang model is going to be given old gunsight? Are you kidding me? Maybe make it D5 while you are at it.:mad:?

As long as there is a Dora and a Kurfurst over Normandy I will not agree to this change or any model below D20!

The P-51B was still flying over Normandy as well, perhaps we can get them to give you that instead...

Reflected · July 20, 2017

The P-51B was still flying over Normandy as well, perhaps we can get them to give you that instead...

Please do. And give the Germans G-6s while we're at it :D

By the way - will this new Mustang replace the current one, or be an alternative to it?

NineLine · July 20, 2017

Please do. And give the Germans G-6s while we're at it :D

By the way - will this new Mustang replace the current one, or be an alternative to it?

Well we are getting older model 109 and 190 AI, so there is that...

As far as the Mustang, I thought it was an alternative, but I am not 100% sure, I think it will be similar to the clipped wing Spit.

Ala13_ManOWar · July 20, 2017

I know this has been asked many times before, but i figure there is a reason for that.
The P51´s convergence is just terrible and it is probably the least accurate in game by far.
With a new damage model coming soon, doing damage will most likely be harder so to hit with as many guns as possible would be ideal.

What do you guys think?
Do you want a new gun convergence?

I really wonder why learning to use your guns is never an option... :huh: "I can't hit a 747 10ft away from me? So it has to be wrong, I want a new convergence...". Yeah, sure :doh:.

Not to mention,

"Well, the other WW2 aircraft with wing mounted guns."

, you kidding, right? You mean Spitfire? Because there are no other current models in DCS with wing mounted guns. So you're obviously meaning "other games" that in fact doesn't even model ballistics but sorta whatif. C'mon mate…

S!

tflash · July 20, 2017

Don't touch my P-51D ! I'm having incredible fun against ground targets, for which the current convergence is perfect!

cichlidfan · July 20, 2017

That was for maybe some Ace Pilots and such, but for the most part, they were set the same for all, based on what was determined to be the best setting for all. Pilots weren't tweaking it every flight...

Even in the very few cases where it was done, it wasn't a ten minute operation. It was a labor intensive operation.

NineLine · July 20, 2017

Even in the very few cases where it was done, it wasn't a ten minute operation. It was a labor intensive operation.

Yup, if there was some info on a different setting for ground attack missions, I could see that as a ME option, but nothing more beyond that.

LuseKofte · July 21, 2017

That was for maybe some Ace Pilots and such, but for the most part, they were set the same for all, based on what was determined to be the best setting for all. Pilots weren't tweaking it every flight...

It is pretty well documented on how pilots dealt with covergence, when a USAAF pilot had some hours in combat (nothing to do with ace pilots) he generally got his own plane and could do what he liked to do with it , he sorted it out with the crew chief, that was the "owner ". They had their own ideas about these things. They chose one convergence and adjusted it to optimal and sticked with it for the duration. Not for every mission. Same with UK pilots, every now and then someone else flew their plane , and they have to fly other planes, not sure what was done about it then

Edited July 21, 2017 by LuseKofte

NineLine · July 21, 2017

It is pretty well documented on how pilots dealt with covergence, when a USAAF pilot had some hours in combat (nothing to do with ace pilots) he generally got his own plane and could do what he liked to do with it , he sorted it out with the crew chief, that was the "owner ". They had their own ideas about these things. They chose one convergence and adjusted it to optimal and sticked with it for the duration. Not for every mission. Same with UK pilots, every now and then someone else flew their plane , and they have to fly other planes, not sure what was done about it then

I doubt a high percentage of pilots where changing it from the norm, I still havent seen enough to say that is the case. I dont think it's a realistic option to have ED spend much time on having a setting for MP, but that is just my opinion.

Andy1966 · July 22, 2017

Hello all

Here's a link to a new Kermie cam video of, it looks like the same lot of aircraft the DS P51 is and it has some interesting convergence specs inside the gun bay door at 11:15. most likely ED and YOYO have seen it before but I thought I'd post it. still kind of cool

Talisman_VR · July 23, 2017

Hello all
Here's a link to a new Kermie cam video of, it looks like the same lot of aircraft the DS P51 is and it has some interesting convergence specs inside the gun bay door at 11:15. most likely ED and YOYO have seen it before but I thought I'd post it. still kind of cool

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