coopes Posted August 10, 2017 Share Posted August 10, 2017 The game is beyond frustrating now. I have been very much in the flying scene regards to Burning Skies and the WW2 PVP arena. I wish we could have an update on the damage model. Not just that flying the planes, are they still in Beta, as you make changes and then say nothing has changed. When you have flown hundreds of hours in the plane you notice stuff. Nobody ever has an answer for issues that have been around since the end of 1.5. I had to send a track for DCS to look at super cooling in the 109, it certainly is a little less super but still pretty great. I would also like to know why i can run MW50 on and off in the 109, yet i do it in the dora or WEP in the P51 its like pot luck wether the engine is gonna seize. A lot of people i talk to barely use it. Surely i should be able to run MW50 on and off in the Dora like the 109? Or does the 109 has special MW50. Dora FM has changed, its my favourite plane and i have flown in a ton! its nose heavy and even harder to handle at slower speed? You could attract so many more people to flying WW2 in DCS more regular if you addressed some of these issues. I may fly again once you get there, but its to annoying right now. 1 If your interested in a realism WWII squad, drop by our Discord. https://discordapp.com/invite/BK7kxZx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VampireNZ Posted August 10, 2017 Share Posted August 10, 2017 Hang in there Coopes - 2.5 is just around the corner! To be fair to ED...the amount of stuff they are trying to juggle at the moment is pretty crazy, try and cut them a little slack. Asus Maximus VIII Hero Alpha| i7-6700K @ 4.60GHz | nVidia GTX 1080ti Strix OC 11GB @ 2075MHz| 16GB G.Skill Trident Z RGB 3200Mhz DDR4 CL14 | Samsung 950 PRO 512GB M.2 SSD | Corsair Force LE 480GB SSD | Windows 10 64-Bit | TM Warthog with FSSB R3 Lighting Base | VKB Gunfighter Pro + MCG | TM MFD's | Oculus Rift S | Jetseat FSE [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sobek Posted August 10, 2017 Share Posted August 10, 2017 When you have flown hundreds of hours in the plane you notice stuff. But that's not the scientific way. If something is wrong, then you can prove it. If you can't prove it, then that's too little to make a change on. I would also like to know why i can run MW50 on and off in the 109, yet i do it in the dora or WEP in the P51 its like pot luck wether the engine is gonna seize. A lot of people i talk to barely use it. Different engines, different restrictions. If you stick to the restrictions to the letter and the engine reproducibly seizes, make a track of that and you have a strong case that something is wrong. its nose heavy and even harder to handle at slower speed? If you need to ask, then how can you say that something is wrong? You could attract so many more people to flying WW2 in DCS more regular if you addressed some of these issues. And turn away so many more because suddenly FMs are tuned because of FEELINGS!!!1!!!1 and not scientific proof. 2 Good, fast, cheap. Choose any two. Come let's eat grandpa! Use punctuation, save lives! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
razo+r Posted August 11, 2017 Share Posted August 11, 2017 If you need to ask, then how can you say that something is wrong? And turn away so many more because suddenly FMs are tuned because of FEELINGS!!!1!!!1 and not scientific proof. With him, four of my friends and me felt the same that there were changes and we all flew it for months/years. I've opened a thread and made a video about it and figured out, nothing changed and yet we still feel it behaving different than in 1.5.X. The official answer was: no changes were made And yet, we still find things that behave different than in 1.5.X Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coopes Posted August 11, 2017 Author Share Posted August 11, 2017 Different engines, different restrictions. If you stick to the restrictions to the letter and the engine reproducibly seizes, make a track of that and you have a strong case that something is wrong. I have run a test with Dora as per what it says in the DCS manual and it still fails early on MW50. I have mentioned it here before but nothing feeds back from it. Engine restrictions have nothing to do with it between the 109 and 199, the technology is the same and it works exactly the same way in both engines If your interested in a realism WWII squad, drop by our Discord. https://discordapp.com/invite/BK7kxZx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reflected Posted August 11, 2017 Share Posted August 11, 2017 When people fly something for years and it changes from one day to another it can be quite obvious. Usually what happens is: - no communication - players complain - "tut tut, don't complain based on feelings, no change was communicated. You should do some EASA approved test, and open a thread in the whishlist section". come on... I can confirm that the Dora's engine is even more wrong than other planes. You use WEP = it will die. That's it. Oh, and as soon as a bullet passes in your 10m vicinity it also dies. This is not to say other planes are much better. I'm desperately crying out for a DM update finally. (I know, it's in progress, coming soon) Facebook Instagram YouTube Discord Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sobek Posted August 11, 2017 Share Posted August 11, 2017 I have mentioned it here before but nothing feeds back from it. Did you provide any proof or did you just present your opinion? Engine restrictions have nothing to do with it between the 109 and 199, the technology is the same and it works exactly the same way in both engines But they are not the same engines... Good, fast, cheap. Choose any two. Come let's eat grandpa! Use punctuation, save lives! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ED Team BIGNEWY Posted August 11, 2017 ED Team Share Posted August 11, 2017 guys please be respectful when posting thanks Forum rules - DCS Crashing? Try this first - Cleanup and Repair - Discord BIGNEWY#8703 - Youtube - Patch Status Windows 11, NVIDIA MSI RTX 3090, Intel® i9-10900K 3.70GHz, 5.30GHz Turbo, Corsair Hydro Series H150i Pro, 64GB DDR @3200, ASUS ROG Strix Z490-F Gaming, HP Reverb G2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David OC Posted August 11, 2017 Share Posted August 11, 2017 With him, four of my friends and me felt the same that there were changes and we all flew it for months/years. I've opened a thread and made a video about it and figured out, nothing changed and yet we still feel it behaving different than in 1.5.X. The official answer was: no changes were made And yet, we still find things that behave different than in 1.5.X Real pilots say this all the time, they to would love to always fly in cool clean air for max performance. Is this feeling just DCS doing it's job compared to what you guy's are used to in these other sims? Are the parameters exactly the same when you guy's have this feeling, did you change servers and fly on a different map with different weather? This here tells me how much better perhaps the DCS FM's really are and just how separate from the other sims, you guy's know these planes really well right, even a small change in weather and you can see or think you can almost feel the difference, the IRL pilot can "really" feel this difference. . i7-7700K OC @ 5Ghz | ASUS IX Hero MB | ASUS GTX 1080 Ti STRIX | 32GB Corsair 3000Mhz | Corsair H100i V2 Radiator | Samsung 960 EVO M.2 NVMe 500G SSD | Samsung 850 EVO 500G SSD | Corsair HX850i Platinum 850W | Oculus Rift | ASUS PG278Q 27-inch, 2560 x 1440, G-SYNC, 144Hz, 1ms | VKB Gunfighter Pro Chuck's DCS Tutorial Library Download PDF Tutorial guides to help get up to speed with aircraft quickly and also great for taking a good look at the aircraft available for DCS before purchasing. Link Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coopes Posted August 11, 2017 Author Share Posted August 11, 2017 BIGNEWY can we have some useful replies then. Can someone give me the science behind why the 109 can come off and on MW50 consistently and the Dora cant? To my knowledge of how MW50 works on the engine it should not be the case. If someone can give a credible reason i would like to know. Dont mention temps as the fail happens in the green. If your interested in a realism WWII squad, drop by our Discord. https://discordapp.com/invite/BK7kxZx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
razo+r Posted August 11, 2017 Share Posted August 11, 2017 (edited) Real pilots say this all the time, they to would love to always fly in cool clean air for max performance. Is this feeling just DCS doing it's job compared to what you guy's are used to in these other sims? Are the parameters exactly the same when you guy's have this feeling, did you change servers and fly on a different map with different weather? This here tells me how much better perhaps the DCS FM's really are and just how separate from the other sims, you guy's know these planes really well right, even a small change in weather and you can see or think you can almost feel the difference, the IRL pilot can "really" feel this difference. . same sim and only sim, same default ME settings, different feeling, but it was sorted out even if those feelings stay. Edited August 11, 2017 by razo+r Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sobek Posted August 11, 2017 Share Posted August 11, 2017 BIGNEWY can we have some useful replies then. Can someone give me the science behind why the 109 can come off and on MW50 consistently and the Dora cant? To my knowledge of how MW50 works on the engine it should not be the case. If someone can give a credible reason i would like to know. Dont mention temps as the fail happens in the green. That's not the point. The point is, there needs to be proof that something doesn't work as expected. People saying that it doesn't work is not proof. I'm not saying that you are wrong, but suppose you were, would you want a developer to waste a day or two of his precious time to double check whether everything works correctly, just to discover that nothing is wrong? Imagine how often people come here simply claiming that things don't work as they should. Should the devs go after each claim and prove it false? I'm sure you understand that they wouldn't get a lot of work done if they did that. That is the reason why things are the way they are. One track reproducibly demonstrating wrong behavior is all it takes to get the wheels turning. Stating it 500 times on the other hand accomplishes nothing. Good, fast, cheap. Choose any two. Come let's eat grandpa! Use punctuation, save lives! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coopes Posted August 11, 2017 Author Share Posted August 11, 2017 Please stop talking its embarrassing I asked for the science behind it, an explanation, not as you say waste precious hours to test it. If I said how does lift work on a wing people will comment with the science on how it works. They don't need to go away and create a track file to explain that! If your interested in a realism WWII squad, drop by our Discord. https://discordapp.com/invite/BK7kxZx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
razo+r Posted August 11, 2017 Share Posted August 11, 2017 That's not the point. The point is, there needs to be proof that something doesn't work as expected. People saying that it doesn't work is not proof. I'm not saying that you are wrong, but suppose you were, would you want a developer to waste a day or two of his precious time to double check whether everything works correctly, just to discover that nothing is wrong? Imagine how often people come here simply claiming that things don't work as they should. Should the devs go after each claim and prove it false? I'm sure you understand that they wouldn't get a lot of work done if they did that. That is the reason why things are the way they are. One track reproducibly demonstrating wrong behavior is all it takes to get the wheels turning. Stating it 500 times on the other hand accomplishes nothing. Here's your proof (not my experiment, from another post) Manual states: 10 min with MW-50, 5 min cooling, then again 10 min with MW-50 results: 10 min with ME-50, 6 min cooling, 4 min MW-50 and then the engine seized. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sobek Posted August 11, 2017 Share Posted August 11, 2017 Great! Is there a track too? Could you link to the thread so we can have a look? Good, fast, cheap. Choose any two. Come let's eat grandpa! Use punctuation, save lives! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ED Team BIGNEWY Posted August 11, 2017 ED Team Share Posted August 11, 2017 BIGNEWY can we have some useful replies then. Can someone give me the science behind why the 109 can come off and on MW50 consistently and the Dora cant? To my knowledge of how MW50 works on the engine it should not be the case. If someone can give a credible reason i would like to know. Dont mention temps as the fail happens in the green. I am not the man to give you the science behind it, I rarely fly it or the 190, if you search the forum you will see it has been discussed many times. if you are going to discuss it, and you want it to be a meaningful one present your evidence with its sources, ED are more likely to listen when it has the data to work with, just keep the discussion civil. thanks Forum rules - DCS Crashing? Try this first - Cleanup and Repair - Discord BIGNEWY#8703 - Youtube - Patch Status Windows 11, NVIDIA MSI RTX 3090, Intel® i9-10900K 3.70GHz, 5.30GHz Turbo, Corsair Hydro Series H150i Pro, 64GB DDR @3200, ASUS ROG Strix Z490-F Gaming, HP Reverb G2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ED Team NineLine Posted August 11, 2017 ED Team Share Posted August 11, 2017 (edited) Here's your proof (not my experiment, from another post) Manual states: 10 min with MW-50, 5 min cooling, then again 10 min with MW-50 results: 10 min with ME-50, 6 min cooling, 4 min MW-50 and then the engine seized. I will try and jump in the 190 later tonight and see if I can reproduce, but this thread should have been created in the appropriate bug section. I will move it now. Thanks. I assume this was in the Normandy map? What mission? Track file? Mission file? Anything so I can reproduce what you are seeing? Edited August 11, 2017 by NineLine Forum Rules • My YouTube • My Discord - NineLine#0440• **How to Report a Bug** Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coopes Posted August 11, 2017 Author Share Posted August 11, 2017 Sith there was a change around the end of 1.5. That test that was quoted was done in 1.5. It still happens in Normandy If your interested in a realism WWII squad, drop by our Discord. https://discordapp.com/invite/BK7kxZx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coopes Posted August 11, 2017 Author Share Posted August 11, 2017 You can do it in a fly now or even in a multiplayer server If your interested in a realism WWII squad, drop by our Discord. https://discordapp.com/invite/BK7kxZx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ED Team NineLine Posted August 11, 2017 ED Team Share Posted August 11, 2017 Sith there was a change around the end of 1.5. That test that was quoted was done in 1.5. It still happens in Normandy Thanks, I will try and look into it. Forum Rules • My YouTube • My Discord - NineLine#0440• **How to Report a Bug** Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
razo+r Posted August 11, 2017 Share Posted August 11, 2017 Great! Is there a track too? Could you link to the thread so we can have a look? https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=189435&page=3 post #22 there's also another one around about the use of the mw-50 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magic Zach Posted August 11, 2017 Share Posted August 11, 2017 While you are right, the damage modeling for the WWII aircraft is pretty low (especially for the 109!) it is being worked on. This also means that the governor for the Mustang won't be such a commonly hit target anymore because that hitbox or whatever for it won't be so big. Tired of runaway props, and tired of terrible Sms, especially for the 109. Hardware: T-50 Mongoose, VKB STECS, Saitek 3 Throttle Quadrant, Homemade 32-function Leo Bodnar Button Box, MFG Crosswind Pedals Oculus Rift S System Specs: MSI MPG X570 GAMING PLUS, RTX 3090, Ryzen 7 5800X3D, 32GB DDR4-3200, Samsung 860 EVO, Samsung 970 EVO 250GB Modules: AH-64D, Ka-50, Mi-8MTV2, F-16C, F-15E, F/A-18C, F-14B, F-5E, P-51D, Spitfire Mk LF Mk. IXc, Bf-109K-4, Fw-190A-8 Maps: Normandy, Nevada, Persian Gulf, Syria Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Esac_mirmidon Posted August 11, 2017 Share Posted August 11, 2017 Making my own test. Me190: 12:00 15º T: 10 minutes MW50 boost all OK. 5 minutes cold down. Another 10 minutes MW50 boost. All OK. No engine failure. Fw190: 12:00 15º T: 10 minutes MW50 boost all OK. 5 minutes cold down. At 3:45 minutes engine failure. I´ve made this test three times with each plane and is always the same. The Fw190 is breaking the engine in the second MW50 period of use at around 3:30 to 4:00 minutes. Normandy map. " You must think in russian.." [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Windows 7 Home Premium-Intel 2500K OC 4.6-SSD Samsung EVO 860- MSI GTX 1080 - 16G RAM - 1920x1080 27´ Hotas Rhino X-55-MFG Crosswind Rudder Pedals -Track IR 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coopes Posted August 11, 2017 Author Share Posted August 11, 2017 Making my own test. Me190: 12:00 15º T: 10 minutes MW50 boost all OK. 5 minutes cold down. Another 10 minutes MW50 boost. All OK. No engine failure. Fw190: 12:00 15º T: 10 minutes MW50 boost all OK. 5 minutes cold down. At 3:45 minutes engine failure. I´ve made this test three times with each plane and is always the same. The Fw190 is breaking the engine in the second MW50 period of use at around 3:30 to 4:00 minutes. Normandy map. This matches the test i ran late 1.5 If your interested in a realism WWII squad, drop by our Discord. https://discordapp.com/invite/BK7kxZx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Little_D Posted August 11, 2017 Share Posted August 11, 2017 Hi gents, have the same results as you, when i dont work with the coolers. In the moment i use all the way in dogfight the cooling system. Open it as soon i hit the water max., let it open till fight is over and close it again when the engine is realy coolagain. Than back to auto rads. No problems to run MW50 longer than when you use it without "manuel" contoll, as i think the automatic dont open the cooler rads to the max. when the temps raise to max. Because with open rads and max. power +MW50 i have temps around 70 water and 80 oel the complet time. It takes a lot of time for the temps to raise to max. more time then you need to run for everybody over the map. never got engine failer because of temps with "manuel" use of cooling system. regards Little_D 1./JG2_Little_D Staffelkapitän 1./Jagdgeschwader 2 "Richthofen" "Go for the leader, if you can. The path is the goal, the kill the result." "The one who has 12, leads. The one who has six, follows." YouTube Channel: 1./JG2 Filmkanal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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