Female pilots in DCS World

[NineLine]

Using realism as an argument against female VO just boggles my mind. I dont think when DCS was originally made that the decision to only include male voices was made due to this, rather at the time female gamers just were not around, or as prevalent as now. If adding female voices would be of added value for female gamers, as the OP suggested, then by all means it should be considered, and in no way would it impact realism anymore than killing your virtual pilot and being able to spawn into a new aircraft seconds later.

 

You're argument isnt valid, and slightly chauvinistic to be honest. No one is asking you to use a female voice, although I honestly wouldnt care if I flew a campaign and the main character VO was female...

 

correct, on that level it does not affect me, nor anyone. technically, it can go either way -- if i should not be perturbed by a russian, or chinese, or a woman's voice, then a woman should not be perturbed by a man's voice.

 

so what basis then do we have to fall back on if it can swing any which way? i personally think if dcs aims to be a simulator oriented towards "fidelity" then it should then use real world precedent to resolve these quandaries. that is the basis for the "realism" argument, and why i think it's fine for the game to maintain a predominantly male voice scheme for players. for the same of atmosphere and immersion, this would be the most accurate representation of an airforce experience.

[Exorcet]

Correct, on that level it does not affect me, nor anyone. Technically, it can go either way -- if I should not be perturbed by a Russian, or Chinese, or a woman's voice, then a woman should not be perturbed by a man's voice.

 

That varies on an individual level. I also don't see people arguing that you shouldn't be bothered by a lack of voice. It's just that some people do notice.

 

So what basis then do we have to fall back on if it can swing any which way? I personally think if DCS aims to be a simulator guided by the concept of "fidelity" then it should use real world precedent to resolve these quandaries. That is the basis for the "realism" argument, and why I think it's fine for the game to maintain a predominantly male voice scheme for players. For the sake of atmosphere and immersion, this would be the most accurate representation of an airforce experience.

This is a fallacy. It is inaccurate to have male only voices. If you're arguing for realism, female voices are necessary because you will hear them depending on where you happen to be in the military.

 

Beyond that though, DCS is not a history simulator. It's not going to model the airforce down to every individual pilot - that's obviously not feasible. At the same time it doesn't have to represent the current demographics of the military at all. The scope of the simulation is determined by the user. 100% female voices, for example, in a particular DCS instance would not make it a less realistic instance. Not only because such things happened:

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Women_Airforce_Service_Pilots

 

But because such things are logically possible. DCS is not limited to the former (historical accuracy) and can include the latter (hypothetical accuracy).

[Ironhand]

...

Originally Posted by Ironhand View Post

Oh, I don't know. I guess I figure that anything that makes some folks feel more comfortable and welcome within the sim is to the sim's benefit.

 

 

but the dcs community is already extremely friendly and accommodating to anyone who expresses the common passion towards aircraft...

If she gets that far. Her first experience is the sim, not the forum. And it's the little hooks that can make the difference.

 

...

 

So what basis then do we have to fall back on if it can swing any which way? I personally think if DCS aims to be a simulator guided by the concept of "fidelity" then it should use the real world as a precedent to resolve these quandaries. That is the basis for the "realism" argument, and why I think it's fine for the game to maintain a predominantly male voice scheme for players. For the sake of atmosphere and immersion, this would be the most accurate representation of an airforce experience.

I guess taking what you're saying to it's logical conclusion, there should be a quota for sim sales to women so that their number matches the 'employment' rate in the real world...in the interest of simulation--which is an odd concept. If 200,000 women buy into DCS, you're going to tell me that they should all be comfortable using a male voice because there aren't many women in the various nation's air forces? In the interest of 'fidelity'?

[probad]

You're argument isnt valid, and slightly chauvinistic to be honest. No one is asking you to use a female voice, although I honestly wouldnt care if I flew a campaign and the main character VO was female...

I wouldn't care either if i played a character that was female -- that is the creator's intent.

 

My perspective is based around my concerns primarily as a primarily MP player. In the end it wouldn't be something I'm not used to -- men playing female characters, but I think going so far as to call me chauvinistic for being unenthusiastic about seeing female representation used by and large for a disingenuous representation is a rude and callous response.

 

The origin of my disagreement being that I see a great difference between the concept of "playing as" and "represented by".

 

If 200,000 women buy into DCS, you're going to tell me that they should all be comfortable using a male voice because there aren't many women in the various nation's air forces? In the interest of 'fidelity'?

If the proportion of female pilots becomes significant enough, I'd be the first one to sign on for their duly significant representation. In the interest of fidelity.

Edited August 16, 2017 by probad

[NineLine]

I wouldn't care either if i played a character that was female -- that is the creator's intent.

 

My perspective is based around my concerns primarily as a primarily MP player. In the end it wouldn't be something I'm not used to -- men playing female characters, but I think going so far as to call me chauvinistic for being unenthusiastic about seeing female representation used by and large for a disingenuous representation is a rude and callous response.

 

The origin of my disagreement being that I see a great difference between the concept of "playing as" and "represented by".

 

Perhaps you need to go back to the OP then, I think you got lost along the way at some point. The ability to use your own voice, or two have a female voice for female users should be by no way an issue. And if you were to log into MP and someone used a female voice, it shouldn't hurt your experience in the least as it will not impact your game play at all.

[Exorcet]

If the proportion of female pilots becomes significant enough, I'd be the first one to sign on for their duly significant representation. In the interest of fidelity.

Wouldn't that contradict what you said before about taking after the real world in terms of fidelity? Or did I misunderstand what you meant?

[Blaze]

I have an old female wingman mod, still works in DCS as far as I know.

Female Wingman.zip

[firmek]

Yeap, why not. I could already imagine...

PILOT: request taxi to runway

ATC: taxi runway 6.. hold on, come back now! You forgot to take out the trashes.

or

PILOT: request bogey dope

AWACS: not today honey, I have a headache.

 

But serioiusly. I remember two campaigns with female voices - the museum relic and M-2000C stock campaign. Was a great addition. Something to consider however would be that it might be more nautural to hear female voice in western airforces rathern than in eastern. It should be be done in a way that adds to the environment rather than impacting the immersion by fealing not in place.

[Ironhand]

I have an old female wingman mod, still works in DCS as far as I know.

Cool!

[NineLine]

I have an old female wingman mod, still works in DCS as far as I know.

 

+1

 

Anyone could make their own voice pack I suppose, male or female. Although I am not sure how these will work with MP, so that needs to be considered.

[probad]

No, I have not lost my way. Rather, I consider that OP's request affects more than the scope of his request alone.

And if you were to log into MP and someone used a female voice, it shouldn't hurt your experience in the least as it will not impact your game play at all.

Yes, and in theory, so to should the current state of the game not impact a female player's experience at all either. But if one female player has expressed a discomfort with the situation, why should the opinion of one male suddenly be devalued? Are we not all intrinsically equals?

 

I am not enthused and consider the motivations behind the support of this request based more in sanctimony than a true pursuit of equality, but I am willing to compromise at the end of the day. But if we want to discuss this any more we're going to have to bring out the political elephant standing in the room, so let us amicably disagree.

 

And really, that all of this has nothing to do with airplanes.

Edited August 16, 2017 by probad

[NineLine]

But if one female player has expressed a discomfort with the situation, why should the opinion of one male suddenly be devalued? Are we not all intrinsically equals?

 

We have an option for male voice in the sim. Having an option for a female voice doesnt impact us whatsoever...

[Raven (Elysian Angel)]

but the ones that do get drawn in might feel more included, and that doesnt hurt anything.

Exactly!

[SharkBaztard]

The a10c has a nice lady voice.. she yells at me when I get too close to the ground sometimes...but, I love her.

 

Plenty of female pilots and controllers irl.. so I'm a +1

[Johnny_Rico]

If we are asking for different voices I would like Brian Blessed to be my Air traffic Controller voice , anyone else with me ?

Edited August 16, 2017 by Johnny_Rico

[Gierasimov]

Interesting choice of words here probad...

 

I am not enthused and consider the motivations behind the support of this request based more in sanctimony than a true pursuit of equality, but I am willing to compromise at the end of the day. But if we want to discuss this any more we're going to have to bring out the political elephant standing in the room, so let us amicably disagree.

 

And really, that all of this has nothing to do with airplanes.

 

First of all, you missed the point that OP expressed. This isn't about equality, it is about nice to have feature and this thread is DCS Wishlist section. OP did not mention multiplayer at all, and as far as I remember there was a poll that suggested that majority (of voters) are single player users. Now, get this mate, I am not bothered by anything you do in DCS, I don't mind what options, modules, versions or mods you use - it does not affect me at all and since I don't do MP we won't meet online, so most probably, you should not be affected or feel perturbed by the options I choose in my DCS install, or if I fly with AI girl as my wing(wo)man.

[Gierasimov]

If we are asking for different voices I would like Brian Blessed to be my Air traffic Controller voice , anyone else with me ?

 

Maybe ED could do some different voices and charge for it as a DLC ?

 

Tom Tom style :)

[Yurgon]

+1, I think this is a great idea!

 

As of now, with the new terrains, new airports, left + right runways, all the pilots and ATCs already lack a big bunch of voice overs. Plus, ATC procedures are supposed to get an overhaul anyway.

 

If I'm right and a lot of voice overs need to be newly recorded, it would be great if we got several voices to choose from, including female voices. That would also mean that there'd be more options for wingmen voices.

 

I think this would benefit DCS on several levels.

 

If we look at some of the missions and campaigns that are currently popular, it seems like there's a lot of talented voice actors who might even offer their work voluntarily.

 

I'm all for it!

 

that is no excuse to keep moving the goalposts further away in the wrong direction.

 

Adding a female player voice adds to the sim. I simply cannot see any downside whatsoever. Nothing is taken away. On the contrary.

 

If we consider your worst case scenario of male online players using female voices... so what? Does that destroy your immersion? How do you even know they're male players anyway?

 

I mean, hey, you're not required to support this request. But how and why any person might actually oppose it is beyond me.

 

[...] You never know what talent you might capture with such a simple thing.

 

Very well said! :thumbup:

[SharkBaztard]

I can expect and fully understand some push back to females being in some military simulator roles.. bc they rarely or do not exist IRL.. Lets say we had a Navy Seal sim or whatever, so sure.

 

But anyone arguing over it in a flight or combat flight sim is wrong..

 

In 1994 Kara Hultgreen was deploying to Iran off a carrier, piloting a f-14 tomcat.. sadly she was killed in a accident while landing on the carrier.

 

We have females flying the f35's and really every aircraft, I would bet on.

 

So.. as a simulation, females fit perfectly.

[Hyperion35]

I know this is probably a long shot, but would there be any chance to see if Major Kim Campbell might be willing to record some of the voice tracks for an A-10C pilot? In 2003, her A-10 (not sure if it was an A or C) was hit by enemy fire while supporting ground troops over Baghdad. After sustaining damage to her engine, horizontal stabilizer, tail, and losing both primary and backup hydraulics, she managed to fly home and land safely in manual reversion mode.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kim_Campbell_(pilot)

 

On the other hand, her Wiki article lists her as still being on active duty, so I don't know whether that would present legal/financial/logistical barriers. Still, that would certainly add realism to the sim.

[David OC]

Aircraft Carrier Communications

 

8XIsRQ1q_HA

[NineLine]

I know this is probably a long shot, but would there be any chance to see if Major Kim Campbell might be willing to record some of the voice tracks for an A-10C pilot? In 2003, her A-10 (not sure if it was an A or C) was hit by enemy fire while supporting ground troops over Baghdad. After sustaining damage to her engine, horizontal stabilizer, tail, and losing both primary and backup hydraulics, she managed to fly home and land safely in manual reversion mode.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kim_Campbell_(pilot)

 

On the other hand, her Wiki article lists her as still being on active duty, so I don't know whether that would present legal/financial/logistical barriers. Still, that would certainly add realism to the sim.

 

That would be very cool, even if just for an add-on voice pack.

[bcradio]

FYI, it's 2017 in the civilized world.

 

i would hope people drawn to the sim are here for the aircraft, not the female noises.

[The Black Swan]

FYI, it's 2017 in the civilized world.

 

If you read his posts he wasn't trying to be mean, just sounds like he has a pet peeve with lots of guys choosing female voices.

 

 

Personally I'm fine with it, more options for radio stuff would be great.

[bcradio]

I read it and stand by what I posted. Androcentric "noises" won't prevent me from visiting the forum. Hopefully female "noises" won't be too much of a nuisance (or threat) to him.

 

 

If you read his posts he wasn't trying to be mean, just sounds like he has a pet peeve with lots of guys choosing female voices.

 

 

Personally I'm fine with it, more options for radio stuff would be great.