ZQuickSilverZ Posted March 3, 2018 Posted March 3, 2018 From the desk of Yo-Yo, one of our flight model engineers. As the Yak-52 is not really suitable for any combat simulation, and is a very special DCS product, we can show the “behind the curtain” tuning and verification process regarding our flight test results. Yo-Yo if it is not really suitable for combat then why is ED trying to wedge it into Digital COMBAT Simulator. Frankly, (my opinion) ED is losing focus. 1 I need, I need, I need... What about my wants? QuickSilver original. "Off with his job" Mr Burns on the Simpsons. "I've seen steering wheels / arcade sticks / flight sticks for over a hundred dollars; why be surprised at a 150 dollar item that includes the complexities of this controller?! It has BLINKY LIGHTS!!" author unknown. These titles are listed in the chronological order I purchased them. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]
feefifofum Posted March 3, 2018 Posted March 3, 2018 (edited) ED was contracted by a party independent of DCS to develop the Yak-52 for a professional grade simulation. REFERENCE Since they are making it anyway, they have elected to include it in DCS for players who might be interested. As far as it not belonging in DCS, Russian military training programs use or have used the Yak-52 for initial flight training before pushing recruits to jet trainers such as the L-39, so I don't find it to be out of place at all. Edited March 3, 2018 by feefifofum 1 THE GEORGIAN WAR - OFFICIAL F-15C DLC
Mitthrawnuruodo Posted March 3, 2018 Posted March 3, 2018 As long as the aircraft fits a military context, there is nothing wrong. I think the training progression from Yak-52 to jets is quite interesting. A real question that warrants discussion is the addition of civilian aircraft that have no military applications.
probad Posted March 3, 2018 Posted March 3, 2018 (edited) combat is an attitude if you only gave me a car i will still find a way to **** up your day with it that aside though combat exists in a larger context. an obvious example would be the issue of collateral damage -- noncombatants are not fighting, sure, but it doesn't make them a nonfactor in combat operations. if you want to simulate the realities of combat, can you really stop with only combat units? in any case you've missed the train on the discussion by a couple months. go search for the topics if you actually care about peoples viewpoints on the matter. Edited March 3, 2018 by probad
ED Team NineLine Posted March 3, 2018 ED Team Posted March 3, 2018 Yup, as already stated it was originally a private contract, not for DCS World. ED obtained the right to use it in DCS World, so we get the Yak-52. If you are not interested in it you can pick up a number of combat aircraft already available in DCS, not to mention the F/A-18C which should hold enough combat for all your combat needs. Forum Rules • My YouTube • My Discord - NineLine#0440• **How to Report a Bug**
ED Team NineLine Posted March 3, 2018 ED Team Posted March 3, 2018 A real question that warrants discussion is the addition of civilian aircraft that have no military applications. I know I personally came over here for the A-10C and dropping bombs on stuff... so the thought of civilian aircraft really never came to me, but lately, when you look at the quality of the FMs and everything else in the sim, I can understand why it is attracting contracts outside the military. Forum Rules • My YouTube • My Discord - NineLine#0440• **How to Report a Bug**
David OC Posted March 3, 2018 Posted March 3, 2018 We all know ED and third parties subsidize there income with right, that is how they can move forward so far, like they have done in this small niche. Stand back and look at the bigger picture here, anything will be possible in this DCS sandbox simulator, anyone who wants to create or have ED, belsimtek etc, create one for them can$. I think it's great they got a license so YOU can decide to purchase the latest creation or not, yes, even if it's not a combat bird. There is no sim out there that has the depth of simulated flight that you can model in the DCS engine. So any aircraft is ok, my preference is more on the combat side, I also do hope it's doesn't take to much away moving forward from developing more combat aircraft, I can tho understand balancing this out for financial reasons too. If the clients are there... If anything I would rather ED really concentrate on the underlying fundamentals now 2.5 is out, which they are I believe and bring them up to the aircraft FM level. Missile logic, ballistics/Damage, ALL AI, ATC, vulkan api 3D real time mission building or in game VR unit placement;), now that would make building missions fun, It would make NineLine's job developing up missions for Combined Arms so much easier right.:) Those things will really take DCS World to the next level. . i7-7700K OC @ 5Ghz | ASUS IX Hero MB | ASUS GTX 1080 Ti STRIX | 32GB Corsair 3000Mhz | Corsair H100i V2 Radiator | Samsung 960 EVO M.2 NVMe 500G SSD | Samsung 850 EVO 500G SSD | Corsair HX850i Platinum 850W | Oculus Rift | ASUS PG278Q 27-inch, 2560 x 1440, G-SYNC, 144Hz, 1ms | VKB Gunfighter Pro Chuck's DCS Tutorial Library Download PDF Tutorial guides to help get up to speed with aircraft quickly and also great for taking a good look at the aircraft available for DCS before purchasing. Link
Weta43 Posted March 3, 2018 Posted March 3, 2018 Think also about the fact that DCS prides itself on the fidelity of its flight models, but perhaps cannot share the information that goes into them as widely as would be needed to keep all those that complain about their accuracy happy. The Yak-52 is a common plane, with plenty of people available to validate the FM. Think of the Yak-52 not only as an interesting aircraft to train in, do acrobatics with, or just sightsee in, think of it as an open book exam that E.D. are showing you their answers to. Cheers.
uboats Posted March 3, 2018 Posted March 3, 2018 (edited) if you insist word "combat", then what about removing all civilian unit/assets or those that cannot fire from dcs? and let's only keep military airbase in maps, no more civilian airport. ;) Edited March 3, 2018 by uboats [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] My DCS Mods, Skins, Utilities and Scripts | Windows 10 | i7-4790K | GTX 980Ti Hybrid | 32GB RAM | 3TB SSD | | TM Warthog Stick | CH Pro Throttle + Pro Pedal | TIR5 Pro | TM MFD Cougar | Gun Camera: PrtScn |
bbrz Posted March 3, 2018 Posted March 3, 2018 (edited) Think also about the fact that DCS prides itself on the fidelity of its flight models, but perhaps cannot share the information that goes into them as widely as would be needed to keep all those that complain about their accuracy happy. The Yak-52 is a common plane, with plenty of people available to validate the FM. Think of the Yak-52 not only as an interesting aircraft to train in, do acrobatics with, or just sightsee in, think of it as an open book exam that E.D. are showing you their answers to. +1 Couldn't have said it any better :) Being able to design a FM with the ability to test, check, compare and confirm everything with the real aircraft is by far the best thing that can happen to an FM designer! Edited March 3, 2018 by bbrz i7-7700K 4.2GHz, 16GB, GTX 1070
FragBum Posted March 3, 2018 Posted March 3, 2018 Yeah but it wont shake as much as the real thing, :D I went up in one and they are fun to fly in also got some stick time so it will likely be my first fixed wing to have a real crack at in DCS. ;) Hmmm Fixed wing implies somehow they were broken but then got fixed. :huh: The instructor told me that they were the basic trainer for potential mig pilots besides what does it matter DCS can only improve it's code base developing the YAK 52 and that means we all win right. And what if you could actually switch control between seats that would be neat especially if carried over to other models. Control is an illusion which usually shatters at the least expected moment. Gazelle Mini-gun version is endorphins with rotors. See above. Currently rolling with a Asus Z390 Prime, 9600K, 32GB RAM, SSD, 2080Ti and Windows 10Pro, Rift CV1. bu0836x and Scratch Built Pedals, Collective and Cyclic.
msalama Posted March 3, 2018 Posted March 3, 2018 Frankly, (my opinion) ED is losing focus. No, they're not. As mentioned already, this is a private contract they were permitted to release in public so it's something they would've made anyway, you just wouldn't have heard about it had it stayed private. You're welcome ;) The DCS Mi-8MTV2. The best aviational BBW experience you could ever dream of.
RIFLE_JTAC_TRAINING Posted March 3, 2018 Posted March 3, 2018 I disagree there is a loss of focus. Before becoming a fighter pilot everyone goes through a prop plane, learning the basics to build on a foundation. Yes the simulator allows us to go straight into an F15 but there is value to these aircraft. The better you understand the fundamentals the better combat pilot you will be. 63 1 My CAS (Close air support) JTAC Channel: RIFLE - YouTube RIFLE's Discord: https://discord.gg/cmDCrr4Z2g Publications JTAC Bible (see/know chapter #5) https://fas.org/irp/doddir/dod/jp3_09_3.pdf J-FIRE pocket guide (Don't do battle without it!) BK2 (fas.org)
ED Team BIGNEWY Posted March 3, 2018 ED Team Posted March 3, 2018 This is all about personal preference. For me I would say WHY NOT! As has been mentioned this was a private contract that has become possible for ED to market. the more the merrier in my opinion. Forum rules - DCS Crashing? Try this first - Cleanup and Repair - Discord BIGNEWY#8703 - Youtube - Patch Status Windows 11, NVIDIA MSI RTX 3090, Intel® i9-10900K 3.70GHz, 5.30GHz Turbo, Corsair Hydro Series H150i Pro, 64GB DDR @3200, ASUS ROG Strix Z490-F Gaming, PIMAX Crystal
gavagai Posted March 3, 2018 Posted March 3, 2018 ED was contracted by a party independent of DCS to develop the Yak-52 for a professional grade simulation. REFERENCE Since they are making it anyway, they have elected to include it in DCS for players who might be interested. Makes sense then. Including it in the weekly news to ramp up excitement is a bit confusing, that's all. P-51D | Fw 190D-9 | Bf 109K-4 | Spitfire Mk IX | P-47D | WW2 assets pack | F-86 | Mig-15 | Mig-21 | Mirage 2000C | A-10C II | F-5E | F-16 | F/A-18 | Ka-50 | Combined Arms | FC3 | Nevada | Normandy | Straight of Hormuz | Syria
Burning Bridges Posted March 3, 2018 Posted March 3, 2018 Because, bring it on please! I have played DCS since ca 2004 and never became very good. And I play exclusively as a non-combat flight simulation. I always planned to become a real combat pilot but that never happened, I am just not trained enough with the planes and I don't want to spoil my immersion by flying a modern jet in combat and then not knowing what to do. So as to me it has always been more of "Neverending Combat Pilot Training Simulator" a plane like the Yak is actually the right thing. As I would practive landings with slow trainers first before jumping in a Mach 2 jet. I also presume that flying the Yak will be great fun as it is light as a feather and should be able to do almost anything in the air (except going fast of course). 1
John Hargreaves Posted March 3, 2018 Posted March 3, 2018 No matter what you might end up flying in the services, whether it's a fighter jet, transport plane or a helicopter, the first thing they would send you up in would be a fixed wing trainer. (A Spitfire pilot might start in a Tiger Moth so let's have one of them too). A lot of people using DCS enjoy learning about the planes and flying in general terms, and aren't even that bothered about blowing stuff up. I think it's great we are getting this plane, and as a project, rather than taking time away from other aircraft, it has paid for further development on the main modules so everybody wins. Also nobody will be forced to buy it. i7-7700K/Gigabyte RTX2080/Win10 64bit/32Gb RAM/Asus Xonar DX+Sennheiser HD380pro headphones/LG 34" UM65 @2560x1080/TM Warthog+VKB MkIV Rudder pedals/Rift CV1
bbrz Posted March 3, 2018 Posted March 3, 2018 Including it in the weekly news to ramp up excitement is a bit confusing, that's all. Why confusing? I'm definitely more exited about the Yak-52 than about the F/A-18. If it's about real feel flying vs FBW computer controlled disconnected flying, real flying is always the winner for me, IRL and in any sim. i7-7700K 4.2GHz, 16GB, GTX 1070
feefifofum Posted March 3, 2018 Posted March 3, 2018 Haha it's your choice whether or not to get excited when information is presented to you. ;) I think ED are well within their rights to advertise a product they're releasing, and have done so very tastefully here. THE GEORGIAN WAR - OFFICIAL F-15C DLC
401TIGGER Posted March 3, 2018 Posted March 3, 2018 Yakkity Yak Yak Bring it on. I will purchase, learn how to fly the Yak and maybe apply some of those new skills to ACM and just have plain olde fun flying.:pilotfly: Looking forward to the addition to me hangar. TiGGs sends Deadlines..... I love the sound when they go whooshing by..... Windows 10 Pro w WARTHOG HOTAS and Crosswinds MFG Pedals; i7 9700 @ 3.8GHz, Asus, 16 GB RAM; NVidia GTX 2070 GDDR5x VRam11Gb; 500Gb SSD; Oculus Rift S and a partridge in a pear tree :punk:
David OC Posted March 3, 2018 Posted March 3, 2018 Bring it on. I will purchase, learn how to fly the Yak and maybe apply some of those new skills to ACM and just have plain olde fun flying.:pilotfly: Looking forward to the addition to me hangar. TiGGs sends This will be fun in VR, right :cry: i7-7700K OC @ 5Ghz | ASUS IX Hero MB | ASUS GTX 1080 Ti STRIX | 32GB Corsair 3000Mhz | Corsair H100i V2 Radiator | Samsung 960 EVO M.2 NVMe 500G SSD | Samsung 850 EVO 500G SSD | Corsair HX850i Platinum 850W | Oculus Rift | ASUS PG278Q 27-inch, 2560 x 1440, G-SYNC, 144Hz, 1ms | VKB Gunfighter Pro Chuck's DCS Tutorial Library Download PDF Tutorial guides to help get up to speed with aircraft quickly and also great for taking a good look at the aircraft available for DCS before purchasing. Link
javelina1 Posted March 3, 2018 Posted March 3, 2018 Bring it on. I will purchase, learn how to fly the Yak and maybe apply some of those new skills to ACM and just have plain olde fun flying.:pilotfly: Looking forward to the addition to me hangar. TiGGs sends Exactly! I'll fly it! :thumbup: MSI MAG Z790 Carbon, i9-13900k, NH-D15 cooler, 64 GB CL40 6000mhz RAM, MSI RTX4090, Yamaha 5.1 A/V Receiver, 4x 2TB Samsung 980 Pro NVMe, 1x 2TB Samsung 870 EVO SSD, Win 11 Pro, TM Warthog, Virpil WarBRD, MFG Crosswinds, 43" Samsung 4K TV, 21.5 Acer VT touchscreen, TrackIR, Varjo Aero, Wheel Stand Pro Super Warthog, Phanteks Enthoo Pro2 Full Tower Case, Seasonic GX-1200 ATX3 PSU, PointCTRL, Buttkicker 2, K-51 Helicopter Collective Control
FlankerMan Posted March 3, 2018 Posted March 3, 2018 Well, I wish ED was working on a combat aircraft (preferably a relatively modern Russian fighter), but I suppose I can't really make them give up the Yak-52. I don't think I'll buy it, though.
bbrz Posted March 3, 2018 Posted March 3, 2018 I suppose I can't really make them give up the Yak-52. You are 100% correct! i7-7700K 4.2GHz, 16GB, GTX 1070
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