Windows Mixed Reality Discussion

[D4n]

On 12/7/2022 at 4:53 PM, Nodak said:

Alt/Esc the game, go to WMR portal and open the 3D picture, your mouse will work in it, click close on whatever menu is stuck, go back into the game if your jet hasn't crashed yet and resume your sortie.

Okay, will try!

[D4n]

On 12/7/2022 at 4:53 PM, Nodak said:

Alt/Esc the game, go to WMR portal and open the 3D picture, your mouse will work in it, click close on whatever menu is stuck, go back into the game if your jet hasn't crashed yet and resume your sortie.

Negative, no "close" option...... This massive issue is getting out of hand. It just totally ruined another new DCS session entirely for me. Wasted another 10 minutes of my gaming-time to annoying issues like this.

Edited December 13, 2022 by D4n

[some1]

In case you guys haven't noticed, there have been some updates to WMR for SteamVR software recently that claim to fix some stability and performance issues.

May be worth checking out if you switched to OpenXR. As at least on my system with RTX4090, I get noticeably better FPS with SteamVR now than with OpenXR at the same 140% resolution on Reverb G2. Where OpenXR makes 80 with GPU loaded to the max, SteamVR can hold 90 fps with some room to spare. 

https://store.steampowered.com/news/app/719950/view/3680036899858715469?l=english

Quote

* Resolved a memory leak that would progressively fill video memory and cause crashes

* Improved video memory management for applications that allocate memory beyond their allowed budget

* Reduced video memory footprint for applications submitting very large images (eg: double-wide) or incorrectly using a different resolution for each eye

* Fixed crashes with certain OpenXR applications used through SteamVR (eg: Hubris)

* Fixed crashes when using the "Optimize rendering and improve GPU memory usage" option

* Fixed conditions where the transitions screen between applications would flicker

We have conducted testing with several games: Automobilista 2, Alien Isolation (MotherVR), Bonelab, Digital Combat Simulator, Skyrim VR, Project Cars 2, VR Chat, Half-Life: Alyx, No Man's Sky, Hubris, Blade & Sorcery, Deo VR, The Brookhaven Experiment, Ragnarok... and for all of these games we compared frame rates, frame times and memory usage with the Last-Known Good (LKG) version, and this new version performed equally or better in all of our testing.

 

Edited January 9, 2023 by some1

[Tusk.V]

8 hours ago, some1 said:

In case you guys haven't noticed, there have been some updates to WMR for SteamVR software recently that claim to fix some stability and performance issues.

May be worth checking out if you switched to OpenXR. As at least on my system with RTX4090, I get noticeably better FPS with SteamVR now than with OpenXR at the same 140% resolution on Reverb G2. Where OpenXR makes 80 with GPU loaded to the max, SteamVR can hold 90 fps with some room to spare. 

https://store.steampowered.com/news/app/719950/view/3680036899858715469?l=english

 

 

Very interesting!!

[DroptheHammer]

On 1/9/2023 at 2:11 AM, some1 said:

In case you guys haven't noticed, there have been some updates to WMR for SteamVR software recently that claim to fix some stability and performance issues.

May be worth checking out if you switched to OpenXR. As at least on my system with RTX4090, I get noticeably better FPS with SteamVR now than with OpenXR at the same 140% resolution on Reverb G2. Where OpenXR makes 80 with GPU loaded to the max, SteamVR can hold 90 fps with some room to spare. 

https://store.steampowered.com/news/app/719950/view/3680036899858715469?l=english

 

 

I’ve run it through my test suite of around 15 different reproducible scenarios, some cpu and some GPU bound.  Some multiplayer and others also on a 4090 with 13900k at 6.2ghz. 
native for native in all cases 100% oxr res with oxr toolkit disabled vs steamVR at 100% global and 100% app.  
i tried reprojection on and off and compared all 4 setups. 
 

I did not see your claim of increased fps in steamVR come to reality in any scenario in a measurable way @more than 0.5ms cpu or GPU in a consistent way. 

HOWEVER this is still an amazing piece of work for steamVR.  Prior to this release there was a clear winner In OXR and now in terms of performance and clarity at default settings it basically makes no difference which compositor is being used.   
 

fantastic work to the steamVR team and windows mixed reality for streamVR team.  
 

where you do notice a difference is in the reprojection…. The steamVR one handles some limited scenarios much better than OXR for reasons I’m not able to determine.   The Apache rotor blades shapes and movement matches the shadow in steamVR but is just a broad sweeping “wiz” in OXR with reprojection on.    So if you like reprojection or are an Apache pilot… steam is prob the way to go.

Personally I prefer reprojection off and then ifs a dead heat performance / clarity wise. 
 

What will keep me with OXR right now are a few key things.  #1. Ease of launch and close without steam needing to be in the middle.  #2 the “Input smoothing” feature of OXR makes my streams buttery smooth with no VR “helmet shake” for my viewers.  #3. Color, contrast, hue and other controls in OXR Toolkit without the lag of reshade in steamVR and finally #4.built in scaler, fov, fixed focrared rendering and other controls end up giving OXR the performance and clarity edge again if you really want to tune things a lot. In my case this is done steady and I’m locked 90fps at 250% render res. with better color and no shakiness. 
 

for a new/casual user…. Just stick with steamVR. It is super efficient and smooth now and frankly once I turn off the FPS counter I just can’t tell the difference anymore on equal settings.

great job devs. 
 

 

 

 

 

[some1]

Thanks for the write up. Yeah, I don't know what combination of settings causes such difference on my system, but I did several test and it always came out like that. Back when I used RTX3080, both were about equal in performance. SteamVR always offered better reprojection quality, as you've pointed out. 

[cashman75]

On 12/13/2022 at 11:37 PM, D4n said:

Negative, no "close" option...... This massive issue is getting out of hand. It just totally ruined another new DCS session entirely for me. Wasted another 10 minutes of my gaming-time to annoying issues like this.

 

Hi, I do not know if you have solved this but if you set WMR settings like below that will solve the problem of opening of WMR menu.. Hope that helps. Best regards.

 

null

[Sile]

Am 10.1.2023 um 11:50 schrieb DroptheHammer:

where you do notice a difference is in the reprojection…. The steamVR one handles some limited scenarios much better than OXR for reasons I’m not able to determine.   The Apache rotor blades shapes and movement matches the shadow in steamVR but is just a broad sweeping “wiz” in OXR with reprojection on.    So if you like reprojection or are an Apache pilot… steam is prob the way to go.

Thanks for posting this.

That is the reason i'm still sticking to SteamVR. On my Setup SteamVR handles reprojection much better than OpenXR.

So I hope SteamVR will still be supportet by ED in the future and/or OpenXR reprojection will be improved.
(or Multithreading/Vulcan/DLSS will allow my setup to consistently deliver 90 fps)

Edited January 13, 2023 by Sile

[D4n]

On 1/10/2023 at 8:45 PM, cashman75 said:

Hi, I do not know if you have solved this but if you set WMR settings like below that will solve the problem of opening of WMR menu.. Hope that helps. Best regards.

 

null

Thanks!!!! Seems the combination of reinstalling Mixed Reality, ED's patch about the OpenXR thing, and me having uninstalled "OpenXR for Mixed Reality" or so FIXED it! NOW, pressing Win key again closes that overlay! That experimental OpenXR-stuff really ruined a lot on Mixed Reality systems it seems

[Mars Exulte]

Yesterday everything was fine. Today, can't even get the headset to boot properly. Blue screen flickering in and out randomly, and the tracking pops in and out. It's never done this before, but is apparently fairly common based on a quick search. It's just so damn out of nowhere. It was fine YESTERDAY. Now this crap? I really should have bought an Index...

[Lucid484]

Do you have to run DCS in steam to use Steam VR?

[speed-of-heat]

53 minutes ago, Lucid484 said:

Do you have to run DCS in steam to use Steam VR?

No

[Lange_666]

For those who use/need WMR:

https://www.ghacks.net/2023/12/21/windows-mixed-reality-is-history/

[j9murphy]

 

2 hours ago, Lange_666 said:

For those who use/need WMR:

https://www.ghacks.net/2023/12/21/windows-mixed-reality-is-history/

does this mean all WMR headsets will no longer function when windows drops support, or will openxr and/or steamvr still allow them to work in some fashion?  maybe @mbucchia could clarify what the implication of this is?  In the past microsoft had already said they would no longer develop/support the AR part WMR.

[Chief_Biv]

• •  

mbucchia has said on his website posts that he is a Microsoft Employee. This announcement may have a bigger impact on his job than it will on our G2 headsets.  I hope the champion is ok.

[speed-of-heat]

14 minutes ago, Chief_Biv said:

• •  

mbucchia has said on his website posts that he is a Microsoft Employee. This announcement may have a bigger impact on his job than it will on our G2 headsets.  I hope the champion is ok.

This! 

[Lange_666]

https://www.uploadvr.com/windows-mixed-reality-headset-support-end-date/

[mbucchia]

11 hours ago, Chief_Biv said:

• •  

mbucchia has said on his website posts that he is a Microsoft Employee. This announcement may have a bigger impact on his job than it will on our G2 headsets.  I hope the champion is ok.

Thanks! I haven't worked on WMR for months now, I've been moved to a completely different team a while ago.

So this has no impact on me. AFAIK no one is impacted employment-wise.

[Chief_Biv]

 

3 hours ago, mbucchia said:

Thanks! I haven't worked on WMR for months now, I've been moved to a completely different team a while ago.

So this has no impact on me. AFAIK no one is impacted employment-wise.

Great to hear that.

Do you know what Microsoft's announcement means for WMR Headset owners? Will our headsets be bricked or will there be a work around when the new Windows version is rolled out?

[speed-of-heat]

1 hour ago, Chief_Biv said:

 

Great to hear that.

Do you know what Microsoft's announcement means for WMR Headset owners? Will our headsets be bricked or will there be a work around when the new Windows version is rolled out?

This is what has been said publicly:

https://www.uploadvr.com/windows-mixed-reality-headset-support-end-date/

 

Quote

UploadVR reached out to Microsoft officially for answers. A company representative provided the following statement:

"As of Nov. 1, 2026 for consumers and Nov. 1, 2027 for commercial customers, Windows Mixed Reality will no longer be available for download via the Mixed Reality Portal app, Windows Mixed Reality for SteamVR, and Steam VR beta, and we will discontinue support.

[...]

Existing Windows Mixed Reality devices will continue to work with Steam until users upgrade to a version of Windows that does not include Windows Mixed Reality."

So there you have it. After 1 November 2026, you'll no longer be able to download the Mixed Reality Portal app required to use Windows MR headsets, nor the SteamVR driver, so if you have the late 2024 Windows 11 update or newer you won't be able to set up the headset.

 

Edited December 23, 2023 by speed-of-heat

[Baldrick33]

According to this article the build update for Windows 11 (24H2) will cease to support WMR

https://www.neowin.net/news/windows-mixed-reality-headsets-no-longer-work-with-windows-11-version-24h2-and-newer/

Edited February 11 by Baldrick33

[II.JG1_Vonrd]

Perhaps a class action lawsuit is in the future.

[SharpeXB]

2 hours ago, II.JG1_Vonrd said:

Perhaps a class action lawsuit is in the future.

If you read the EULA you clicked Agree to, I’m sure that’s not an option. 

[sigfan86]

10 hours ago, SharpeXB said:

If you read the EULA you clicked Agree to, I’m sure that’s not an option. 

No longer supporting a feature is one thing,  that's done all the time.  But actively making still functioning devices stop working via an effective kill switch is absolutely something looking into and could fall under consumer protection laws

[SharpeXB]

3 hours ago, sigfan86 said:

No longer supporting a feature is one thing,  that's done all the time.  But actively making still functioning devices stop working via an effective kill switch is absolutely something looking into and could fall under consumer protection laws

My guess is if you read those agreements on either the headset or Windows you’ll find that not going to be an option.