F14 - air refueling - I find it easier to refuel with the wing folded

[Kelevra]

I find it easier to refuel with the wing folded

 

 

Is anyone experiencing the same ?

 

 

I have tried several times with the wings extended to the max (wing in auto mod) and I find more difficult to stay par with the tanker.

 

While with the wings retracted (in manual mod),

it's easier to follow the tanker, the plane is more predictable... and I can achieve 100% refuel.

 

I find it rather counter intuitive.

 

For me the air to air refueling has to be harder with the wings folded than with the wings extended...

Thanks for your feedback on this matter.

Edited March 20, 2019 by Kelevra
clarification

[Tj1376]

I find it easier to refuel with the wing folded

 

 

Is anyone experiencing the same ?

 

 

I have tried several times with the wings extended to the max (wing in auto mod) and I find more difficult to stay par with the tanker.

 

While with the wings retracted (in manual mod),

it's easier to follow the tanker, the plane is more predictable... and I can achieve 100% refuel.

 

I find it rather counter intuitive.

 

For me the air to air refueling has to be harder with the wings folded than with the wings extended...

Thanks for your feedback on this matter.

 

 

Your higher angle of attack from the reduced lift of swept wings at slow speeds may provide less control authority which you are relating to as “more stable and easier to refuel.” You may be moving the stick the same amount, but because of the reduced control authority the ship moves less which makes it (ironically) easier to refuel.

 

Pure speculation on my part- I’ve no idea how it’s modeled, but that was the first thing that popped into my head.

 

TJ

 

 

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[TonyG]

Manual to 35° and maneuvering flaps out. Makes it quite a bit easier.

[Sadist_Cain]

Wings into Bomb mode or at least manually aft so the CADC won't activate the flaps n slats.

The instability you feel is those kicking in.

 

Also sweeping the wings dips the tail somewhat, taking the rudders further away from the propwash and vortices generated by the tanker.

[pimp]

I believe wings in bomb mode was recommended in AAR.

[Deano87]

Also when its swept the roll inertia is somewhat lower which actually makes it less sluggish in roll and easier to keep lined up with the tanker. Or so I find anyway.

[Jabbers_]

Yup i go over exactly this and why in my tutorial

 

 

Short answer: Wings swept past i believe 50* your maneuvering flaps no longer work, so less sudden changes in lift and less porpoising occurs.

[Eldur]

The high AoA attitude also makes it easier to track the tanker visually, eventually you might even be able to take a reference point and align it to something on your HUD. This just works with the nose up high, but a lot worse if the whole tanker hides behind the canopy bars. And you want to be as chillaxed as possible which you aren't if you're trying to view past the structure that blocks you view at the tanker.

[Kelevra]

Thanks for all your inputs.

 

 

I watched Jabber video, it was great.

 

I'll try in bombing mode next to see the difference.

 

regards

[SandMan23]

I have no problem connecting with the tanker (I prefer wings in auto). It is staying connected that is kicking my butt. F14 seems to disconnect far easier than other AC. I connect (on trim - no POI - my airframe stable as compared to the tanker. I touch the throttle to move up just a bit - and lose the connection. Don't touch the throttles and lose the connection. I could see it if I were bouncing all over the place but I am not.

 

Any helpful suggestions would be much appreciated. Thanks

[104th_Maverick]

Any helpful suggestions would be much appreciated. Thanks

 

 

Once you connect with the basket drive forward approximately 6 feet to give yourself a little wiggle room. What you dont want to do is stay the same place you connected to the basket.

 

 

Once you're in try focusing on keeping the right hand side of your canopy lined up with a certain point on the tanker fuselage, this will help to keep you in the same place as you're making adjustments.

[Sadist_Cain]

I have no problem connecting with the tanker (I prefer wings in auto). It is staying connected that is kicking my butt. F14 seems to disconnect far easier than other AC. I connect (on trim - no POI - my airframe stable as compared to the tanker. I touch the throttle to move up just a bit - and lose the connection. Don't touch the throttles and lose the connection. I could see it if I were bouncing all over the place but I am not.

 

Any helpful suggestions would be much appreciated. Thanks

 

look at the lights on the probe, they'll turn off when you go out too far.

 

Also check your horizontal alignment, you may find you're flying a formation more off to the side than you might think.

 

Video always helps way more :)

[strikerdg]

Anybody able to explain how to find the tanker? When I ask awacs it tells me a bullseye location but I do not know how to see that with the f14 displays.. anybody able to explain the bullseye functionality or another way to find the tanker? When I contact the tanker they just tell me altitude.

[VampireNZ]

Anybody able to explain how to find the tanker? When I ask awacs it tells me a bullseye location but I do not know how to see that with the f14 displays.. anybody able to explain the bullseye functionality or another way to find the tanker? When I contact the tanker they just tell me altitude.

 

TACAN - tune it (or ask Jester to) and use it. TACAN target indicated on the HSD on the lower screen - outer triangle, and also on the analogue BDHI just to the right along with the distance. Be sure to select TACAN Steer CMD pushbutton on the Pilots Displays Control Panel to the lower right.

 

You can also 'cheat' in the F-14 and lock the tanker up A-A and then switch to the camera display to get a good idea of the tankers aspect (streamline the rendezvous), and also your closure rate and range. Just unlock it as you get close visual.

Edited May 28, 2019 by VampireNZ

[strikerdg]

So I have been trying on a mission with an S-3.. the knee board card says the tacan is 1Y for the tanker.. I set 1Y on the tacan and set the tacan to A/A... in my understanding air to air tacan should not give a bearing only distance.. or do they just model a full fledged tacan on the tanker.. with distance and bearing?

[Greyhound11]

its about not having them change their setting. so as long as they are in manual, whatever sweep setting works for you is fine. You just dont want to have them at 30 deg, and as you slow down have them slip forward to 20, producing more lift and throwing you off.

 

I typically set to bomb or just fwd of that, maybe 50 deg.

 

Now one thing that HAS helped me, especially on the slower tankers, is to crack my speedbrake a bit. i was having a lot of trouble overshooting and taking too long at idle power to drag back into position.

[Reflected]

I understand why it's easier to AAR in bomb mode, but does anyone know what the real life procedure is? I found lots of photos of Tomcats refuelling with their wings in auto.

[draconus]

I understand why it's easier to AAR in bomb mode, but does anyone know what the real life procedure is? I found lots of photos of Tomcats refuelling with their wings in auto.

NATOPS says "WING SWEEP MODE-MAN/wing-sweep angle — As Desired" and also mentions that 40 degrees wing sweep is optimal at 250KIAS.

[Bob_Bushman]

I understand why it's easier to AAR in bomb mode, but does anyone know what the real life procedure is? I found lots of photos of Tomcats refuelling with their wings in auto.

 

Think this was mentioned in Jabbers, or some other video.

 

But from there it was said that there is no policy on angle of sweep, it's just often more stable airframe with the wings swept back and this is the method taught to new pilots.

 

Once they'd build up experience they just leave the wings in auto if they prefer.

 

In short, pilot preference.

[Uxi]

I usually do bomb mode, but have been successful with manual to 30-35, as well.

 

I was having trouble staying connected and loosening the throttle tension is what helped me. Much like landing the throttle is near constantly in motion, though in small amounts.

 

At least in single player. I've tried twice in multiplayer and had issues again, but it was higher and faster than the practice single player mission I made or the instant action, so gonna adjust those.

[BackboneOne]

can anyone share info how can i find tanker without tacan? im flying iriaf cat and my tanker is IL-78 which dont have a tacan. thanks

[Dannyvandelft]

can anyone share info how can i find tanker without tacan? im flying iriaf cat and my tanker is IL-78 which dont have a tacan. thanks

Find him on radar. When you're within 100nm lock him up in STT, then just follow the diamond.

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[draconus]

2 hours ago, BackboneOne said:

can anyone share info how can i find tanker without tacan? im flying iriaf cat and my tanker is IL-78 which dont have a tacan. thanks

First you have to know where you are and where is the tanker's orbit - basic navigation.

[PanosI]

“Bomb mode” is like a cheat mode in F14’s air to air refueling.

It’s 10 times easier even with the KC130 in 220 IAS.

It makes the plane so stable like a different plane.


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[RustBelt]

On 8/14/2023 at 9:11 AM, draconus said:

First you have to know where you are and where is the tanker's orbit - basic navigation.

“The refueling SandCat knows where it is because it knows where it isn’t….”