DCS Carrier Discussion

[Wali763]

That is exactly what I think too. I am a software devoper myself and as such I believe it has been clear much earlier that the announced release date could not be accomplished.

 

I really love DCS World and its DLCs. But nevertheless I think it is simply unprofessional to inform customers just a few hours before the announced release that it won't happen, if the issues are so big that weeks of further programming are required to fix them.

 

Of course this is my personal subjective meaning and of course I might be wrong with it. But nevertheless the lack of regular detailed updates about the satus of the Supercarrier DLC since the announced release date looks quite suspicious to me.

 

Im believe, youre probably right. To me this feels also fishy, that a problem found so close before release, now takes so long to get fixed.

 

My guess would be, that ED knew the problem all along but tried/hoped to release the SC without fixing this right away. But after having those last minute troubles they maybe decided (or were forced) to step back and do the proper groundwork and resolve that problem for good.

 

So maybe with the final release decksliding could be a thing of the past......

 

Am I being too optimistic? :smilewink:

[nicka117]

I don't often have bad things to say about ED, and after I get this off my chest I hope to return to regularly scheduled programming...

 

Anyone else find it difficult to believe the carrier physics are the only major problem that prevented release? If it was, it would have been clear from long before the revised April 15 deadline that there was weeks of work required before the release could go ahead, so it wouldn't have come down to the final hours. If the carrier physics were the problem, why not mention that work item in the roadmap update? Carrier physics have been the source of a lot of angst and news that they were doing anything about it would have been welcomed by players, regardless of whether they owned SC.

 

I don't like being the guy who waits eagerly for a reason and doesn't accept the one given, this just doesn't make sense to me. Either way, I'll leave that here.

 

Exactly. I would guess the thing that tipped the balance between the PR hit of further delay and the consequence of hundreds of people asking for a refund the first day, was the sober realization that it would be pretty much unplayable.

 

I honestly wish that the core simulation was a paid item as well because it would push the development resources to that end more evenly. The way the business model is set up now, it incentivizes hard charges toward dlc partial release EA and away from core features......until the core features create such a problem for the dlc that it creates a unavoidable roadblock....which clrealy happened here.

[Horns]

Im believe, youre probably right. To me this feels also fishy, that a problem found so close before release, now takes so long to get fixed.

 

My guess would be, that ED knew the problem all along but tried/hoped to release the SC without fixing this right away. But after having those last minute troubles they maybe decided (or were forced) to step back and do the proper groundwork and resolve that problem for good.

 

So maybe with the final release decksliding could be a thing of the past......

 

Am I being too optimistic? :smilewink:

I'd think ED would have to fix the decksliding now, if only to retain plausibility. It would make some sense if ED were desperately trying to put together a band-aid solution but found the problem insurmountable. So hopefully we'll get a carrier sans the decksliding some time in May.

[chaser]

185 pages and NineLine decides to give the information some place else hilarious.

 

 

Have to agree

[R_a_y_t_h_e_o_n]

Eagle Dynamics do know the deliberate misselling of goods or fraudulent misrepresentation is illegal right? If they knew SC didn't work before putting it up for purchase in Early Access, as it still is now, even in software development terms, that is really dodgy! The promotional material, the pics and video clearly show a fully working Carrier. How many of us would still have bought SC when we did knowing it was actually bugged in alpha and required months of work just to get into beta? There's only 5 weeks to ED's own May deadline, if they go back on their word to offer refunds. :(

[MAXsenna]

Eagle Dynamics do know the deliberate misselling of goods or fraudulent misrepresentation is illegal right? If they knew SC didn't work before putting it up for purchase in Early Access, as it still is now, even in software development terms, that is really dodgy! The promotional material, the pics and video clearly show a fully working Carrier. How many of us would still have bought SC when we did knowing it was actually bugged in alpha and required months of work just to get into beta? There's only 5 weeks to ED's own May deadline, if they go back on their word to offer refunds. :(

Lots of us!

 

 

EDIT: You have been a pretty new voice lately. That's good, I like new voices.

 

But I don't think you get what EA means in this context. Even you as a SW dev and all. We know EA means buggy and missing features. If you've read the threads like I have. It's right in your face that most people complain about the way the delay was communicated. And it's been debated over and over. Your grasping here man. Seems to me that you're repetative and negative for negativities sake, and just fueling the dying flames. Don't worry dude. You'll get your refund, don't you worry, even if I'll have to endorse you myself. It's bloody six pack after discount.

 

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Edited April 27, 2020 by MAXsenna

[Flamin_Squirrel]

Eagle Dynamics do know the deliberate misselling of goods or fraudulent misrepresentation is illegal right? If they knew SC didn't work before putting it up for purchase in Early Access, as it still is now, even in software development terms, that is really dodgy! The promotional material, the pics and video clearly show a fully working Carrier. How many of us would still have bought SC when we did knowing it was actually bugged in alpha and required months of work just to get into beta? There's only 5 weeks to ED's own May deadline, if they go back on their word to offer refunds. :(

 

Patience!

 

SC will come and it will be worth the wait. ED know they screwed up (we've told them so) and I'm sure they've learnt from it. No need to throw the baby out with the bathwater. :joystick:

[sLYFa]

Eagle Dynamics do know the deliberate misselling of goods or fraudulent misrepresentation is illegal right? If they knew SC didn't work before putting it up for purchase in Early Access, as it still is now, even in software development terms, that is really dodgy! The promotional material, the pics and video clearly show a fully working Carrier. How many of us would still have bought SC when we did knowing it was actually bugged in alpha and required months of work just to get into beta? There's only 5 weeks to ED's own May deadline, if they go back on their word to offer refunds. :(

Jesus Christ is this the first time some software company did not meet a deadline? I'm sure they had the best intentions and had good faith in meeting the announced release date. But things apparently didn't work out as planned and they did the right thing in not releasing a semi-functional module. Shit happens sometimes. Insinuating intentional wrongdoing on ED's part is pure BS. They were very open about what the exact problem is and they are working to get it done. And besides, its just game and not some life saving medicine, I'm sure you can survive a few more weeks or months without it.

[BIGNEWY]

Eagle Dynamics do know the deliberate misselling of goods or fraudulent misrepresentation is illegal right? If they knew SC didn't work before putting it up for purchase in Early Access, as it still is now, even in software development terms, that is really dodgy! The promotional material, the pics and video clearly show a fully working Carrier. How many of us would still have bought SC when we did knowing it was actually bugged in alpha and required months of work just to get into beta? There's only 5 weeks to ED's own May deadline, if they go back on their word to offer refunds. :(

 

We have kept you updated with progress as it has happened, when things have changed we have let you all know. Development is a difficult thing and problems sometimes arise.

 

As soon as we are happy the blocking issues are resolved we will let you know a date for release.

 

Personally find your comment offensive, you can clearly see massive amounts of work have gone into this project and we will deliver.

 

Your patience is appreciated.

 

thanks

[wilbur81]

Eagle Dynamics do know the deliberate misselling of goods or fraudulent misrepresentation is illegal right? If they knew SC didn't work before putting it up for purchase in Early Access, as it still is now, even in software development terms, that is really dodgy! The promotional material, the pics and video clearly show a fully working Carrier. How many of us would still have bought SC when we did knowing it was actually bugged in alpha and required months of work just to get into beta? There's only 5 weeks to ED's own May deadline, if they go back on their word to offer refunds. :(

 

I bought the Super Carrier on Day 1 of the pre-sale... at that time, it was clearly not anywhere close to ready.

 

I bought it i Pre-Sale because:

 

1. ED will do their best to deliver their product when it's ready.

2. I only fly the Hornet... I own the Viper, A-10C, P-51D and FC3. But I'm a dig-down-deep

simmer and have not the time to master anything else.

3. I only fly the Hornet... Super Carrier? A no brainer.

4. ED will do their best to deliver their product when it's ready.

[R_a_y_t_h_e_o_n]

I'm afraid I can't see any choice but to cease being a customer.

Take this as notice my Supercarrier order is cancelled, please close my account.

[pimp]

Eagle Dynamics do know the deliberate misselling of goods or fraudulent misrepresentation is illegal right? If they knew SC didn't work before putting it up for purchase in Early Access, as it still is now, even in software development terms, that is really dodgy! The promotional material, the pics and video clearly show a fully working Carrier. How many of us would still have bought SC when we did knowing it was actually bugged in alpha and required months of work just to get into beta? There's only 5 weeks to ED's own May deadline, if they go back on their word to offer refunds. :(

What are talking about? What was mis-sold or fraudulent? The SC was a pre-order product. Do you know what the Early Access business model is? It helps with funding the project for further development. So, yes I would've pre-ordered, as I did, knowing the product is not bug free at the time and going forward in EA. BTW, promotional material does not show a "clearly" fully working product. It shows you what they want to show. There's pics of the LSO station, but that does not mean it works at the moment. The preview video from last year showed the Tomcat. We all know that is not working with the SC at the moment. ED pulled the product right before it left the assembly line. I look at it as they saved a lot of people from headaches. But another example of they're damned if they do and damned if they don't.

[pimp]

I'm afraid I can't see any choice but to cease being a customer.

Take this as notice my Supercarrier order is cancelled, please close my account.

WOW. All this over a delay:megalol:

[BIGNEWY]

Hi all

 

no matter your view please remember to respect each other,

 

thank you

[wilbur81]

I'm afraid I can't see any choice but to cease being a customer.

Take this as notice my Supercarrier order is cancelled, please close my account.

 

Can I make another humble suggestion? Looking at your signature, it appears that you don't yet have the Hornet. Try the Hornet out (or buy it) during this free for all sale. Really try to master it. Watch some good Youtube videos about the Hornet. Read Orr Kelly's book "Hornet." Etc. I think, after having tasted the Hornet, you might feel more inclined to purchase the Supercarrier. Plus, by the time you're proficient at the Hornet, Supercarrier will be ready to rock.

 

Growing up: these were my favorite fighters (in this order) -

1. F-15C

2. F-16C

3. F-14D

-----------

4. The ugly, wimpy Hornet

 

As I've read books, articles, studied, watched documentaries, played the old Graphsim Hornet PC game, gone to see the Blue Angels many times, and finally delved into DCS's Hornet, my list now goes:

 

1. Hornet

1b. F-15C

---------------

The others. :-)

Edited April 27, 2020 by wilbur81

[Beirut]

 

 

I honestly wish that the core simulation was a paid item as well because it would push the development resources to that end more evenly.

 

 

 

I like that it's a free beginning. It's a great incentive to go deeper into the game. A good map, two nice planes, a mission editor full of stuff to do and things to do it with - "Hey, look at how much fun all of this is!" - I think it's win-win for company and customers.

 

 

It got me flying.

 

 

 

 

And spending.

[TheGuardian]

We have kept you updated with progress as it has happened, when things have changed we have let you all know. Development is a difficult thing and problems sometimes arise.

 

As soon as we are happy the blocking issues are resolved we will let you know a date for release.

 

Personally find your comment offensive, you can clearly see massive amounts of work have gone into this project and we will deliver.

 

Your patience is appreciated.

 

thanks

 

While I don't agree with a lot of what Raytheon said, as he clearly doesn't understand the EA model ED uses. I find it interesting the response you gave. I struggle to find where any of that could be considered offensive. Clearly misinformed, yes, but not offensive. That misinformation is from two parts, 1. Raytheon himself not doing his homework on exactly what he was buying. 2. ED, and their communication issues. I'm not talking about production delays or bugs popping up. I think anyone can clearly understand those issues, current times not withstanding. I just talking communication in general. As someone above mentioned 175 some odd pages and NineLine is answering "detailed" questions over on Hoggit. Not here. Not on your own website. And a normal user had to be the one to transfer the post here. Why are we not seeing a problem here? And you wonder why people get upset or start making BS statements.

 

I'm not some doom and gloom guy here. I will still buy products from ED and 3rd party. I will still buy into EA. But you guys gotta get a handle on communication. People can hate on it if they want, but ED's process for the 15th was STONE COLD WRONG to wait until "release" day to give us any information about what was happening. I get working to the wire to try and get it released, but if you're still working 5 minutes before "release", and you ain't told nobody anything other than announcing an announcement, it's probably too late.

[jasonbirder]

Deleted...wrong thread!

Edited April 27, 2020 by jasonbirder

[pimp]

.. People can hate on it if they want, but ED's process for the 15th was STONE COLD WRONG to wait until "release" day to give us any information about what was happening. I get working to the wire to try and get it released, but if you're still working 5 minutes before "release", and you ain't told nobody anything other than announcing an announcement, it's probably too late.

But they've already admitted and acknowledged, Kate and I think Wags as well, they messed up the communication with the release. What else do you want them to say or do?

[Flamin_Squirrel]

But they've already admitted and acknowledged, Kate and I think Wags as well, they messed up the communication with the release. What else do you want them to say or do?

 

Start communicating on here instead of higgit would be a start!

[headbreaker_ger]

Start communicating on here instead of higgit would be a start!

 

+1

[TheGuardian]

Start communicating on here instead of higgit would be a start!

 

Thank you kindly sir.

 

 

@pimp

What I want is to see them change course. I want to see that they have learned from their mistakes. I fully believe Kate, Wags, Newy, 9L, and Nick Grey when they said they saw they problem with the 16 release and were determined to ensure it didn't happen again. I think that pushing the SC back on the 15th was a shinny example of this effort. That still doesn't excuse the fact for the complete lapse in communication, or the wish washy posts on the 13-14th. Given the fact that they are still posting details on other sites instead of their own, which in my eyes, is a huge problem. That needs to spoken loudly and often until we see a true change in way they communicate with us. I'm not asking for daily details of what everyone at ED is doing cause that would be stupid. However, timelines (god I'm going to regret saying that) need to be given (as they usually are), and when something isn't making the cut, getting notice of it the day of "release" is not smart. It creates the illusion that ED was being deliberately shady, which I don't believe they were.

 

All in all, the best way to combat unrealistic expectations is with good quality information about what is going on and posted in a central location that everyone can easily find.

[pimp]

Thank you kindly sir.

 

 

@pimp

What I want is to see them change course. I want to see that they have learned from their mistakes. I fully believe Kate, Wags, Newy, 9L, and Nick Grey when they said they saw they problem with the 16 release and were determined to ensure it didn't happen again. I think that pushing the SC back on the 15th was a shinny example of this effort. That still doesn't excuse the fact for the complete lapse in communication, or the wish washy posts on the 13-14th. Given the fact that they are still posting details on other sites instead of their own, which in my eyes, is a huge problem. That needs to spoken loudly and often until we see a true change in way they communicate with us. I'm not asking for daily details of what everyone at ED is doing cause that would be stupid. However, timelines (god I'm going to regret saying that) need to be given (as they usually are), and when something isn't making the cut, getting notice of it the day of "release" is not smart. It creates the illusion that ED was being deliberately shady, which I don't believe they were.

 

All in all, the best way to combat unrealistic expectations is with good quality information about what is going on and posted in a central location that everyone can easily find.

I understand what you're saying. You've made some valid points. I just try to make sense of every POV. What Raytheon was saying was just total nonsense. I get what you're saying though. I hope things can turn around rather quickly, because the morale of the community has been quite low for the pass 2 weeks.

[Jarhead0331]

In my line of business, if I was as vague, ambiguous and non-communicative as I feel ED sometimes is with information, I wouldn't have any clients and I wouldn't be in business.

 

The manner in which information is conveyed is my number one criticism with ED, beyond anything else. Communication is scattered, comes from multiple sources and is posted in multiple places with an absolute and utter lack of consistency. Furthermore, most informative posts aimed at providing an update raise more questions than they actually answer. I can only surmise that this is done on purpose, as the information is either simply not available to the person posting it, or the full truth is left undisclosed for various internally mandated reasons, which leaves the individual communicating it to dance around the truth.

 

Some people are always going to hold delays, bugs and problems against ED, and in many circumstances, unfairly so. However, communicating well and reasonably is 100% within ED's control and its consistent failure to do so is completely an unforced error. ED has proven time and time again to be its own worst enemy.

[MAXsenna]

Snip...

 

I agree with most what you've written above. Probably all.

The dude has posted and posted and clearly doesn't want to understand the EA model. Even when people have been trying. So when after two weeks of not getting it. He chooses to! That chosen negativity trying get people along, and implying fraud ticked me off!

I'll stand by my offer to endorse him, and I'd be happy to have ED transfer the module to whoever puts a smile on my b face!

Cheers

 

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