[REPORTED] Performance Issues

[BIGNEWY]

Hi all, please keep the discussion civil,

 

I have mentioned it to the team this morning, we do have performance issues for deck crew reported already.

 

thank you

[statrekmike]

In reference to one of your previous posts.

 

 

 

 

 

I repeat it. You get rock-solid 60 FPS on the rest of the map, in any situation, because DCS maps are made up of low-resolution textures. I have already attached an example, tree texture and buildings so that you understand that they are textures that do not consume too many resources.

 

 

I am fully aware that the maps, buildings, and trees are not terribly high resolution. That being said, let's dig into that a bit and see where it takes us. When I spawn on the Persian Gulf map at Dubai international, I am smack dab in the middle of one of the more demanding map areas of the entire sim. If it is just me, I get pretty much the same overall performance that I would get in any other airport. The framerate will be a touch lower but it won't be serious. To go one step further, I could also have a bunch of my buddies spawn in next to me with F-14's and even with some of the most visually demanding, performance intensive aircraft in DCS surrounding me, I would still not see a massive drop in frames. At this point, I am pushing more polygons and more higher-res textures than I would on the Supercarrier and I am still getting solid (if slightly decreased) performance. The hit I am getting is proportional to the visuals I am seeing.

 

When I spawn on a the empty Supercarrier deck with no land nearby and only my plane and the deck crew to keep me company, I automatically get half my frames. I could turn off Vsync and get some frames back but now I am experiencing serious stutters. If I look away from the superstructure, I get some of those frames back (but not all) and if I look back at the Superstructure, I get performance problems again.

 

Now, while I do think the Supercarrier looks pretty great, I am not really seeing texture resolutions or even mesh complexity that lines up with the performance hit I am seeing. Unlike the scenario I outlined above, I am not seeing where that performance is actually going. The performance hit isn't justified by what is happening in the sim.

 

There are some interesting things to keep in mind. As you have hopefully gathered from all the posts in this thread, shadows seem to be a pretty big part of this. Running the sim without shadows isn't really a practical or acceptable option (especially when one meets/exceeds the recommended requirements for "high") but it does give us a hint that maybe there is a issue somewhere in the Supercarrier model that causes the shadows to have a particularly high impact on performance. Perhaps this is a bug that simply needs to be looked at by ED. Again, I could be wrong but it is at least something.

 

As BigNewy said above, apparently ED has identified a bug with deck crew performance so maybe that is a big part of it. Perhaps this issue also extends to the crew in the superstructure as that would go a long way towards explaining why we are seeing a 50% cut in performance when looking at the Superstructure specifically.

[Minsky]

I have mentioned it to the team this morning, we do have performance issues for deck crew reported already.

 

Should we just wait for the fix then, or do you guys need any additional info?

[...]

I am fully aware that the maps, buildings, and trees are not terribly high resolution. That being said, let's dig into that a bit and see where it takes us. When I spawn on the Persian Gulf map at Dubai international, I am smack dab in the middle of one of the more demanding map areas of the entire sim. If it is just me, I get pretty much the same overall performance that I would get in any other airport. The framerate will be a touch lower but it won't be serious. To go one step further, I could also have a bunch of my buddies spawn in next to me with F-14's and even with some of the most visually demanding, performance intensive aircraft in DCS surrounding me, I would still not see a massive drop in frames. At this point, I am pushing more polygons and more higher-res textures than I would on the Supercarrier and I am still getting solid (if slightly decreased) performance. The hit I am getting is proportional to the visuals I am seeing.

 

When I spawn on a the empty Supercarrier deck with no land nearby and only my plane and the deck crew to keep me company, I automatically get half my frames. I could turn off Vsync and get some frames back but now I am experiencing serious stutters. If I look away from the superstructure, I get some of those frames back (but not all) and if I look back at the Superstructure, I get performance problems again.

 

Now, while I do think the Supercarrier looks pretty great, I am not really seeing texture resolutions or even mesh complexity that lines up with the performance hit I am seeing. Unlike the scenario I outlined above, I am not seeing where that performance is actually going. The performance hit isn't justified by what is happening in the sim.

 

There are some interesting things to keep in mind. As you have hopefully gathered from all the posts in this thread, shadows seem to be a pretty big part of this. Running the sim without shadows isn't really a practical or acceptable option (especially when one meets/exceeds the recommended requirements for "high") but it does give us a hint that maybe there is a issue somewhere in the Supercarrier model that causes the shadows to have a particularly high impact on performance. Perhaps this is a bug that simply needs to be looked at by ED. Again, I could be wrong but it is at least something.

 

As BigNewy said above, apparently ED has identified a bug with deck crew performance so maybe that is a big part of it. Perhaps this issue also extends to the crew in the superstructure as that would go a long way towards explaining why we are seeing a 50% cut in performance when looking at the Superstructure specifically.

 

Dubai at low altitude is still well below the quality that the Supercarrier offers, there are many buildings but they are simple textures, they are not dynamic textures, but static. The Supercarrier is graphically superior to anything we have thus far and it was predictable that it would have a huge impact on performance. Shadows don't just affect the Supercarrier, they have a huge global impact, just like the Hornet's mirrors. The ED team has already reported that it is being [iNVESTIGATED] and they just reported that the problem has been reported. I can simply say that I am very satisfied with the performance, much better than expected and I can operate in this module obviously with conservative graphics settings and without filling the platform with additional static objects. If they improve it, it will be good for everyone, but I would consider it a computing miracle, honestly.

 

One thing I like about the Supercarrier, is that it casts high-quality default shadows, regardless of whether the general settings on the main panel are flat shadows and I honestly wouldn't want this to change.

Edited August 12, 2020 by La Unión | Atazar

[BIGNEWY]

Should we just wait for the fix then, or do you guys need any additional info?

 

I have no additional information at the moment, yes please wait while the team work the problem.

 

thank you

[Cornelius]

I think you are completely mischaracterizing the issue and for the life of me, I can't figure out why you seem so aggressively committed to doing so.

 

One thing I like about the Supercarrier, is that it casts high-quality default shadows, regardless of whether the general settings on the main panel are flat shadows and I honestly wouldn't want this to change.

 

:music_whistling:

Edited August 12, 2020 by Cornelius

[S-GERAT]

Maybe. Maybe not. It could be shadows, but not just any shadows, but shadows from the deck crew (that also has to be decrypted by the CPU; theoretically - only once on first load, practically - we don't know).

 

As mentioned in the first post, you can partially resolve this issue by removing some of the animated people, and fully resolve it by removing the deck crew completely.

 

At the same time, placing dozens of other shadow-casting objects on the old Stennis won't bring your system to its knees. You will only see an expectable drop in frames.

 

Improper shadow casting (e.g. one object casting shadow multiple times) is a known DCS issue. Maybe the deck crew is just particularly sensitive to this bug?

 

I suppose that the old stennis is an object a lot more friendly for shadow casting due it low poly numbers, but of course the deck crew can be the problem also. At the end I'm not using the SC module due this problem.. same with the Channel map.. a bit dissapointed with ED regarding these issues, they need proper VR testers ASAP.

[Minsky]

I suppose that the old stennis is an object a lot more friendly for shadow casting due it low poly numbers, but of course the deck crew can be the problem also.

 

This was our very first assumption. But during past months I tried almost everything, including replacing the SC with a low poly model. No performance increase at all.

 

The deck crew is a gray area tho. We know that removing it can solve the problem, but that's all. Hard to experiment with something encrypted from head to toes (pun intended).

[marcoscosta]

I suppose that the old stennis is an object a lot more friendly for shadow casting due it low poly numbers, but of course the deck crew can be the problem also. At the end I'm not using the SC module due this problem.. same with the Channel map.. a bit dissapointed with ED regarding these issues, they need proper VR testers ASAP.

 

Yeah, I just quit using the SC too, when I see a mission what I really need to take off on SC, I choose another plane or goe to do something else.

[imacken]

I suppose that the old stennis is an object a lot more friendly for shadow casting due it low poly numbers, but of course the deck crew can be the problem also. At the end I'm not using the SC module due this problem.. same with the Channel map.. a bit dissapointed with ED regarding these issues, they need proper VR testers ASAP.

 

With SC, I have not really got any issues using TrackIR. I retain my frame limited 58fps at all times. VR is, of course, a different matter!

 

The Channel map is another story altogether. I really have given up on it until we see some fixes. Even in TrackIR, I am seeing 30fps when anywhere near a town or built-up area. Never seen anything like that in DCS before. However, not really appropriate to discuss that much more here.

 

I'm looking forward to future fixes in both cases.

[Rmnsvn]

Heyy look at this, the issue is [REPORTED] now.

That’s the sign I love to see!

[bad_turbulence]

With SC, I have not really got any issues using TrackIR. I retain my frame limited 58fps at all times. VR is, of course, a different matter!

 

The Channel map is another story altogether. I really have given up on it until we see some fixes. Even in TrackIR, I am seeing 30fps when anywhere near a town or built-up area. Never seen anything like that in DCS before. However, not really appropriate to discuss that much more here.

 

I'm looking forward to future fixes in both cases.

 

HOw can i get the product to stop incorrectly reporting that i have TrackIR? Or is the simulator trying to tell me something ? ;)

[Cornelius]

Heyy look at this, the issue is [REPORTED] now.

That’s the sign I love to see!

 

 

+1 :thumbup:

[TOViper]

Should we just wait for the fix then, or do you guys need any additional info?

 

I have tested this a few times now:

The frame rate drops hardly during night, when the carrier has lights turned ON on the tower.

The hit is as strong as if I turn on shadows.

Edited September 3, 2020 by TOViper
typo

[Minsky]

Just for the record: still not fixed in the 2.5.6.55363 (released today).

 

Although I'm having a negligible performance increase (from 28 to 31 fps).

[JupiterJoe]

For me the Supercarrier takes upwards of a minute to load the bitmaps from a grey model. This spoils immersion somewhat.

 

Yes I have a powerful enough computer.

[Minsky]

2.5.6.57264 (released 04.11.2020) - still not fixed.

 

It now performs kinda worse than in the previous patch (dropped from 31 fps back to 28 ).

 

It's been nearly half a year since the release :thumbup:

[Nealius]

Performance has gotten worse by a large margin in the latest Open Beta (04NOV patch). When loading into a mission the carrier fails to render, with only deck crew and parked jets rendered. My own cockpit is not rendered. It takes upwards of 2~3 minutes to load the carrier, my jet, and the cockpit even on an SSD with 32GB of RAM. Not to mention the stutters when IW that cause bolters.

[Uxi]

My seat of the pants estimation without looking at numbers is better. I am noticing the flicker in one eye but no stutter...

[Minsky]

No improvements for me after the yesterday's patch.

 

I am noticing the flicker in one eye but no stutter...

 

I'm having this flickering (right half of the screen) since the day one. Really annoying.

[Wavehopper]

Performance has gotten worse by a large margin in the latest Open Beta (04NOV patch). When loading into a mission the carrier fails to render, with only deck crew and parked jets rendered. My own cockpit is not rendered. It takes upwards of 2~3 minutes to load the carrier, my jet, and the cockpit even on an SSD with 32GB of RAM. Not to mention the stutters when IW that cause bolters.

 

Exactly the same issue for me on an i9 9900k, 32gb RAM, SSD, RTX 2080 Super. Performance is shocking.

[Northstar98]

For me, with hardly anything on it, performance has improved with the 18th November patch (looks like the highest detail LODs on the crew members only render when you're close now). I'm on an XPS15 laptop with an i7 8750H, and GTX1050Ti MaxQ upgraded with a 970 Evo Plus SSD.

 

It's not stellar but it is decent enough and this is with setting set fairly high.

[JupiterJoe]

Performance is shocking.

+1

 

 

[Wavehopper]

Well my performance has been sorted out, turns out it was my fault all along (mixed up my HDD with my SSD).

[Hoirtel]

Performance improved for me in last patch. In VR I would get massive fps tank when looking anywhere near the island. Much more equal and playable over whole carrier now.

Edited December 14, 2020 by Hoirtel