make the super carrier and WW II asset pack part of the main program

upyr1 · August 2, 2020

I bought both the WWII asset pack and the Super Carrier, however I would love it if ED made them free and part of the main program and gave though of us who bought them a refund in the form of ED mile points, even if we coulld only use them for patial purchases.

OPEC · August 2, 2020

So basically you want your Money back and use them for free? Why on gods green earth would ED do that? Thats just delusional.

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upyr1 · August 3, 2020

So basically you want your Money back and use them for free? Why on gods green earth would ED do that? Thats just delusional.

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I'm asking for a partical descount on future modules. The World War II and super carier should have been part of the main program, with the cost factored into the cost of WWII and Naval aircraft.

Rudel_chw · August 3, 2020

I bought both the WWII asset pack and the Super Carrier, however I would love it if ED made them free ...

Development costs have to be paid one way or another .. currently only the people who like Naval Carrier Ops or WW2 have to put money for their development ... the way you propose, all the users would have to do so trough higher module prices.

Baaz · August 3, 2020

I'm actually split on this.

Having to pay for the super carrier, Yep, everyone who wants it should pay for it. After all, you have the Stennis if you just want to conduct simple carrier ops.

However, I argue in favor of having WWII asset pack as part of the base DCS World game. Imagine if, in the beginning, ED created DCS World with just the Caucasus map, and gave you an A-10 to fly around the map. Then imagine if they said, "If you want something to shoot at, you'll have to pay extra for that." Well, in a sense, that's exactly what they did when they created the warbirds.

So, again, I'm actually split on this matter.

Baaz · August 3, 2020

Since we're on the subject of WWII, consider this:

No one forced ED to create the coming Marianas Map. My understanding is that they are doing something special to allow the map to change based on date set in the ME. But we don't have a single unit yet that covers WWII era in this theater other than the P-51 and P-47.

So, again, they're giving me the map, the toys to fly around in, but if I want something to shoot at, I project I'm going to be expected to buy a "Pacific Theater Asset Pack". Kind of BS in my opinion if it holds true; a bit like getting a car with no engine, wheels, or doors.

Mars Exulte · August 3, 2020

Panhandlers, always trying to present their begging as a ''service''...

Shoo! Bad hobo! Get off my car!

The ''supercarrier'' is included, as a free, feature-lite option. One can perform carrier ops just fine with it. If one wants a hardcore naval sim, then they pay for the carrier. This is the EXACT SAME BUSINESS MODEL of virtually EVERY flight sim on the market, including the soon to be released MSFS2020.

Quit being tightwads. ''Hurdur it should come with the game'', ok, then they should charge a flat $100 for the base game (SC + WWII) and dispense with the ''free'' moniker... while still charging you tightwads for their labor.

Northstar98 · August 3, 2020

No, disagree. The cost of developing these assets is not zero - the supercarrier was years of development for a start and was a radical overhaul in a numerous number of ways.

Yes the Marianas is free, it is also 99.3% ocean. The total land area of the map, even if extended is still less than 70% of the area of Qeshm island on the SoH map.

Having paid for assets gives ED an incentive to actually develop them. Let's give you some examples:

The number of EWRs - so far we have 3, all eastern and 2 of them have absolutely god-awful models.
The vast majority of vehicles and basically all of the statics are starting to show their age when compared with newer assets.
How long have we had all of those long outdated aircraft, vehicles, statics and ships (like the majority of REDFOR's naval assets) that would be more at home in a game from the last millennia?

Plus as Zukhov said, the vast majority of flight simulators (combat or otherwise) has exactly the same business model. Only there are examples that go even further. There's even payware mission editors, weather and freaking cameras out there. You can even buy combat aircraft, but then have to pay for an addon (for about the same price) to be able to use its sensors and weapons in a simplified state. And MSFS2020 is going to be no different.

So, again, they're giving me the map, the toys to fly around in, but if I want something to shoot at, I project I'm going to be expected to buy a "Pacific Theater Asset Pack". Kind of BS in my opinion if it holds true; a bit like getting a car with no engine, wheels, or doors.

Well you are just getting a map, and if you bought a car with no wheels, engine or doors, you probably didn't buy a car.

Here it's more like buying just the engine and expecting the rest of the car to come with it.

And if they are paid for assets, there's also potentially more leverage for customers - ED has to justify the cost, so they're incentivised to not only make the assets, but make them very high quality. Or give them certain features (like searchlights or VT fuses on large calibre shells), or even torpedoes.

Then the technology paid for by paid for assets, can come over to free ones.

Edited August 3, 2020 by Northstar98

Bagpipe · August 3, 2020

''Hurdur "

:lol::lol::lol::lol:

Silver_Dragon · August 3, 2020

Yes the Marianas is free, it is also 99.3% ocean. The total land area of the map, even if extended is still less than 70% of the area of Qeshm island on the SoH map.

You missing TDK build ocean floor by bathimetry data.

Having paid for assets gives ED an incentive to actually develop them. Let's give you some examples:

The number of EWRs - so far we have 3, all eastern and 2 of them have absolutely god-awful models.

The vast majority of vehicles and basically all of the statics are starting to show their age when compared with newer assets.

How long have we had all of those long outdated aircraft, vehicles, statics and ships (like the majority of REDFOR's naval assets) that would be more at home in a game from the last millennia?

EW and great quantity of 3D assets coming from LOMAC, FC, Ka-50 and A-10C, ED has remade and redone some of them, and that take spare time from build new assets. And yes, I follow the old and new assets, check my signature to see the progress on the "unofficial roadmap and other posts.

And if they are paid for assets, there's also potentially more leverage for customers - ED has to justify the cost, so they're incentivised to not only make the assets, but make them very high quality. Or give them certain features (like searchlights or VT fuses on large calibre shells), or even torpedoes.

Then the technology paid for by paid for assets, can come over to free ones.

That technology has not "locked" on that assets, WW2 assets pack or Supercarrier. Meanwhile the S-130 torpedo boat and Type VII carring torpedoes, and have the "proff of concept" to build that technology (launching weapons and simulate torpedoes under sea), Deka has making your free chinese assets pack with a submarine with torpedoes using that tech (I have a P-4 123K and P-183 Torpedo boat funtional) and RAZBAM has making your ships, subs assets and torpedoes to the South Atlantic Maps with that technology. Others 3rd parties can build the same with that "construction blocks" make by ED. They has talked to build cold war AAA Soviet / NATO and that has not payware. The same situation with Searchlights, applicable to implement them on cold war assets and early NATO / Soviet tanks. The same situation has been with the supercarrier, if a 3rd party build free / paid content, that is not a problem with that theck. You mising the point to the new branch has open ED on sea environment with that new module.

Edited August 3, 2020 by Silver_Dragon

Northstar98 · August 4, 2020

You missing TDK build ocean floor by bathimetry data.

Yeah, but software can do that for you automatically, without much in the way of effort, as is shown on the video of the TDK.

EW and great quantity of 3D assets coming from LOMAC, FC, Ka-50 and A-10C, ED has remade and redone some of them, and that take spare time from build new assets. And yes, I follow the old and new assets, check my signature to see the progress on the "unofficial roadmap and other posts.

Yes, and I'm not discrediting their work. The point I'm making that when you've got an incentive you're more likely to deliver.

In terms of free assets the only ones that I can remember being updated is the Roland and the Su-34, as well as a few ships, but were going back a fair way then. There's still a very long way to go. ED have teased new models, but so far we haven't had much and little-to-no update on them.

Meanwhile the WWII asset pack has more frequent additions and has a larger pool of vehicles that are of higher quality. The same can't be said for free assets, of which in the space of fractions of a decade not much upgrading has been done, nor have we seen a really large increase in units that aren't player aircraft.

We've seen the SA-2 (though so far support vehicles aren't in yet, nor is its more commonly associated search RADAR), we've seen Rapier, the Merkava Mk IV, the HY-2, the Ropucha (though again, not implemented), the SCUD and maybe a few others. Compare that to the asset pack with far more numerous vehicles, and new technologies developed for it (VT fuses on shells, searchlights, underwater weaponry(?)) that can later be used on free assets.

That technology has not "locked" on that assets, WW2 assets pack or Supercarrier...

Yes, but arguably the technology was facilitated from a paid product. Those construction blocks still need to be developed and the cost of development isn't 0. We're not even disagreeing here.

Edited August 4, 2020 by Northstar98

Silver_Dragon · August 4, 2020

Yeah, but software can do that for you automatically, without much in the way of effort, as is shown on the video of the TDK.

Not sure what you intent say with that stament.

Yes, and I'm not discrediting their work. The point I'm making that when you've got an incentive you're more likely to deliver.

In terms of free assets the only ones that I can remember being updated is the Roland and the Su-34, as well as a few ships, but were going back a fair way then. There's still a very long way to go. ED have teased new models, but so far we haven't had much and little-to-no update on them.

Meanwhile the WWII asset pack has more frequent additions and has a larger pool of vehicles that are of higher quality. The same can't be said for free assets, of which in the space of fractions of a decade not much upgrading has been done, nor have we seen a really large increase in units that aren't player aircraft.

We've seen the SA-2 (though so far support vehicles aren't in yet, nor is its more commonly associated search RADAR), we've seen Rapier, the Merkava Mk IV, the HY-2, the Ropucha (though again, not implemented), the SCUD and maybe a few others. Compare that to the asset pack with far more numerous vehicles, and new technologies developed for it (VT fuses on shells, searchlights, underwater weaponry(?)) that can later be used on free assets.

More frequent additions....

Go to make numbers, from 2012 when appears the P-51D, the first WW2 aircraft, ED build new / remade / redone 3D assets to modern vs WW2, and I not adding content by 3rd parties (by years):

- Cold War / Modern 3D assets: 36+21+34+28+56+30+56+44+25 (on august 2020).

- WW2: 5+0+7+4+5+35+16+2+35

Number up and downs..... but the modern has receive more love by ED on that years with WW2.

Yes, but arguably the technology was facilitated from a paid product. Those construction blocks still need to be developed and the cost of development isn't 0. We're not even disagreeing here.

The new DM and other features in progress by ED has coming from a "paid" product?...... That features has into DCS core, not exclusive for WW2 addons as others.

Northstar98 · August 4, 2020

Not sure what you intent say with that stament.

If you look at the TDK video, bathymetry data gets downloaded and automatically translated into a usable 3D mesh - at least that's what I took.

More frequent additions....
Go to make numbers, from 2012 when appears the P-51D, the first WW2 aircraft, ED build new / remade / redone 3D assets to modern vs WW2, and I not adding content by 3rd parties (by years):
- Cold War / Modern 3D assets: 36+21+34+28+56+30+56+44+25 (on august 2020).
- WW2: 5+0+7+4+5+35+16+2+35

Number up and downs..... but the modern has receive more love by ED on that years with WW2.

I'm not so much talking about strictly modern vs WW2, I'm comparing the numbers of new/upgraded free assets and their quality, versus the numbers of paid for content and the quality and features.

And those other assets? Well they've had a 5 year head-start on the WWII the asset pack. Many of those units were here from the get go, and have remained in that state for ages.

If you for go from say, the last 5 years, from 2015 to present for free assets we find:

Merkava Mark IV [new] 1
Rapier (launcher, 2 fire-control, 2 transporters) [new]
SA-2 (launcher, FCR) [new]
HY-2 (launcher and RADAR) [new]
Roland ADS [new]
New I-HAWK (launcher + 2 acquisition RADARs, + 1 engagement RADAR + ICP) [new]
Scud [new]
Kilo [upgrade]
Su-34 [upgrade]
Tigr [new]
Cobra [new]
TPz-1 [upgrade? new?]
Uragan [new]
Smerch [upgrade]
KC-130
KC-135 MPRS
Type 096-III [new]
J-11A
Type 054A [new]
Type 052B [new]
Type 052C [new]
HQ-7 (launcher + RADAR) [new]
ZBD-04A [new]
Tarawa [new]
4-5 personnel (Igla, Stinger, 2-3 infantry)

Going through assets that are free and currently implemented. We get 40~ (if I can count). Or an average rate of 8 per year. That's including 3rd parties and even some of these are starting to show their age and some, in my opinion, aren't up to scratch.

Compare this to paid assets (not including player aircraft)

[*]Supercarrier (3 ships, I won't include the deck crew/equipment and the different nimitz versions) [new/upgrade]

[*]WW2 Assets (~50 so far? Excluding variants) [new]

So in 5 years we've got 53, bear in mind the WW2 assets pack came out in 2017 and the supercarrier is this year.

So in 5 years we've got an average rate of 10.6 per year. And only the most recent free assets approach or attain the quality of paid for assets.

Our next RADARs will be part of a paid pack, they're looking like they'll be the best RADARs by miles.

The new DM and other features in progress by ED has coming from a "paid" product?...... That features has into DCS core, not exclusive for WW2 addons as others.

This wasn't what I was saying. The damage model development is arguably being funded by paid for content, and it's coming to paid-for content first. Same for searchlights and VT AA shells and animated crew - they came to paid assets first. And then they make it to the core. The point is still the same - they need to be funded and they're prioritised for paid for content.

Sure I agree, they won't be exclusive to those, but the point I'm making is that paid assets fund their development and usually paid assets are of higher quality.

I'm also saying that when something has a monetary incentive, it'll be done

JonathanRL · August 4, 2020

I bought both. I am okey if ED includes them in the base software without giving me a refund.

If I had to pick, all the AA Units of the WW2 Asset Pack should be included because the game seriously need more anti-air artillery for variety.

Silver_Dragon · August 4, 2020

I'm not so much talking about strictly modern vs WW2, I'm comparing the numbers of new/upgraded free assets and their quality, versus the numbers of paid for content and the quality and features.

And those other assets? Well they've had a 5 year head-start on the WWII the asset pack. Many of those units were here from the get go, and have remained in that state for ages.

I have checking the ..\Eagle Dynamics\DCS World\Bazar\World\Shapes main 3D objects directory from 2012 with appears DCS workd, check with modelviewer ED 3D model visor, check others CoreMods, Mods, and 3rd party directories about new / remade and redome 3D models and put them on a titanic work, week by week. Build the "unofficial" Roadmap to inform de comunity about DCS Progress, changes and more. Has making a post with all 3D models missing to remade from LOMAC / FC / Ka-50 / A-10C to help ED and 3rd parties called List of Vacant models. And you now coming to attack me and my work?

I was 3D modeler and making some assets with never has reach to DCS, include colaborate with some actual 3rd party. I know when a 3D model take only a cosmetic change (texture and / or fixed), has remade new or build new.

Edited August 4, 2020 by Silver_Dragon

upyr1 · August 4, 2020

Development costs have to be paid one way or another .. currently only the people who like Naval Carrier Ops or WW2 have to put money for their development ... the way you propose, all the users would have to do so trough higher module prices.

I know the development costs need to be paid one way or another. There are three ways ED can go about this, what we have now with the $30 asset pack or $40 super carrier.

Next possibility is the one you jumped to which is a cross the board price increase

The last possibility is to include the cost of WWII assets in the price of World War II modules and the cost of the carrier in with Navy modules.

The second will reslut in the lowest price increas and the final will have Warbird players supporting World War II and Naval ops supporting naval ops.

Rudel_chw · August 4, 2020

... what we have now with the $30 asset pack or $40 super carrier.

:) ... who pays list price for this type of modules? I can understand people paying full price for an aircraft they love (like I did with the C-101) .. but for assets?

I purchased the WW2 assets pack on march 2017 on a 20% discount when purchased together with the Normandy Map .. that amounts to US$ 8 for the Assets.

The SC I purchased it on January at 50% off because I had the Hornet, plus using 9.5 with miles, for a cost of US$ 15.

upyr1 · August 4, 2020

Having paid for assets gives ED an incentive to actually develop them. Let's give you some examples:

The number of EWRs - so far we have 3, all eastern and 2 of them have absolutely god-awful models.

The vast majority of vehicles and basically all of the statics are starting to show their age when compared with newer assets.

How long have we had all of those long outdated aircraft, vehicles, statics and ships (like the majority of REDFOR's naval assets) that would be more at home in a game from the last millennia?

Then the technology paid for by paid for assets, can come over to free ones.

As you mentioned the naval assets, I think a good way to improve them would be for ED to release DCS: Fleet Ops which would at least be a frame work for playable naval modules. Which is something DCS is lacking. I am mentioning that since it is better to use a playable module to get the revenue.

upyr1 · August 4, 2020

:) ... who pays list price for this type of modules? I can understand people paying full price for an aircraft they love (like I did with the C-101) .. but for assets?

I purchased the WW2 assets pack on march 2017 on a 20% discount when purchased together with the Normandy Map .. that amounts to US$ 8 for the Assets.

The SC I purchased it on January at 50% off because I had the Hornet, plus using 9.5 with miles, for a cost of US$ 15.

I bought them on sale as well, I expect most of us did. So that would drive the price down quite a bit.

Evoman · August 4, 2020

If people were just patient and wait for the next sale they could buy what they desire at a discount while still supporting the development of said Asset.

Heck there are plenty of people that already buy aircraft models they have no interest in just because they what to support the developers and the game the love.

upyr1 · August 4, 2020

I bought both. I am okey if ED includes them in the base software without giving me a refund.

If I had to pick, all the AA Units of the WW2 Asset Pack should be included because the game seriously need more anti-air artillery for variety.

I'd actually fine, with this situation. I know I was a willing to pay more for the JF-17 because Dekka is working on the Chinese asset pack.

NineLine · August 4, 2020

While some content can be included free, some cannot, its a balance of return on investment. We do our best to make a balance that works with us and you, we also balance that with many sales over there year. We have no plans to give away the asset pack or Supercarrier module at this time. Thanks.