w.i.p Extreme floatiness over the wires?

[Nealius]

Coming back to the Hornet after a lot of Tomcat and Viper flying. I'm experiencing a lot of floatiness over the wires that I didn't have back around the time the SuperCarrier initially released.

 

Configured, on-speed AoA perfect, ICLS glidepath perfect, Ball perfect, then over the wires I suddenly float over them and bolter with frustrating regularity. I even tried cutting throttle completely when over the ramp and I still floated over the wires. That part in particular makes no sense.

 

In this particular instance I was running an ugly payload with LITENING on the left cheek, but I don't think that would have much to do with it.

 

Has anyone else experienced the same?

[Caster]

I've been having these issues, but I'm pretty bad at carrier landings so it's possible I was doing it wrong. I've had cases where my AoA and ball were looking pretty good, I've cut power just before I reach the deck, and I'll still float right over the wires

[Nealius]

I can consistently get OK-underlines in the Tomcat, and I used to get OK or OK-underline all the time in the Hornet, so I'm fairly confident it's not my technique. It feels like something changed, either with the FM, the SuperCarrier, or how the Hornet interacts with the SuperCarrier (burble?).

[Shimmergloom667]

Coming back to the Hornet after a lot of Tomcat and Viper flying. I'm experiencing a lot of floatiness over the wires that I didn't have back around the time the SuperCarrier initially released.

 

Configured, on-speed AoA perfect, ICLS glidepath perfect, Ball perfect, then over the wires I suddenly float over them and bolter with frustrating regularity. I even tried cutting throttle completely when over the ramp and I still floated over the wires. That part in particular makes no sense.

 

In this particular instance I was running an ugly payload with LITENING on the left cheek, but I don't think that would have much to do with it.

 

Has anyone else experienced the same?

 

My buddies in the squad and me find the Hornet to be way floatier in close with the SC as well. I didn't crosscheck with old Stennis, tbh, so one would have to do that first to rule out imagination.

[BuzzU]

Maybe make the glidepath more steep as a temporary fix until it's fixed?

[VFA41_Lion]

There is no fix required. Its very easy to float the Hornet at the last 1/4 mile by overcorrecting on the throttle at the last second in a sort of brief panic against smashing into the back of the boat.

 

Just keep flying the ball all the way in (remember to ignore ICLS) or wave off if you think its too high/low.

[BuzzU]

He said it was floating over the wires. No mention of anywhere else.

[VFA41_Lion]

the flight model isnt literally floating over the wires. Its pilot input.

[Nealius]

It was floating over the wires at idle while on glideslope according to both ball and ICLS. That isn't normal. I should have dropped like a rock and snagged a 1-wire in those conditions.

 

That said, there could have been something funky with the wind settings on that server. The waves were rough, and I'm fairly certain some idiot programmed a crosswind. I was 1.0nm abeam the LSO station and 32~35AoB during the first 90, 45AoB the last 90 and I overshot the final bearing. On every pass the nose was crabbed port of centerline. After that I boltered four or five times, and only managed a trap after coming in so low I had to ignore a waveoff IC.

 

Later on a different server with calm seas I did an okay CASE III pass on the first look. In my own missions, I set winds 6kts straight down the angled deck. Never had this floatiness and never had the nose crabbed so far port either. If there's any crab at all it's starboard towards the Crotch.

Edited September 7, 2020 by Nealius

[Eaglewings]

I think something change in a few update back for the Hornet when it comes to carrier trapping.

I noticed this float even when you fly the ball and maintain proper glidescope.

It seems some kind of uprising wind keeps the aircraft from dropping over the cables even when you cut power to idle at that point.

Not that I cannot trap but had to adjust my tactic in anticipation of the float by coming a bit low. It just increases number of my go around cases now.

[Harker]

I don't want to say that something changed with the FM or engine response, but something does feels a little different. I also notice I'm floating a little bit and it messes with my approach, sometimes. I used to catch the 3-wire fairly often and for the most part, my passes were pretty good.

 

Now, I see that if I fly the ball, I see that when I'm at the ramp or IW, it starts rising. Add to that that right now, it's very easy to get the EGIW comment, if you don't touch down with the throttle to MIL and this looks like a problem.

 

It might not be an issue with the Hornet though. It could just be the burble effect or the IFLOLS implementation. Or something changed for the better and I just got used to the wrong way from before.

[Toastman]

I concur , as I just tried a series of traps and cats on Bancklers supercarrier quals mission using 1/2 flap exclusively and it felt normal compared to full flap approaches !

 

Something has changed for sure !

[Sandman1330]

Now, I see that if I fly the ball, I see that when I'm at the ramp or IW, it starts rising. Add to that that right now, it's very easy to get the EGIW comment, if you don't touch down with the throttle to MIL and this looks like a problem.

 

Concur. I can fly a steady center ball, very stable approach to a 2, 3, or 4 wire, but the ball always rises at the last second, necessitating a power reduction. Always get - - - /EGIW.

 

OTOH I can fly a very ugly, unstable, low approach and get an __OK__

 

Seems grading isn’t perfect yet.

[Nealius]

I know there have been many people getting EGIW grades since the release of the SuperCarrier, and only in the Hornet. In the Tomcat, I never have any issues nor the EIGW grade. Some people were guessing that the EGIW was from the LSO grading code being too sensitive to throttle movements, but now I'm starting to suspect everyone is getting EGIW because of this floaty behavior where we have to chop the throttle to avoid a bolter on a good ball.

[Harker]

I can fly a very ugly, unstable, low approach and get an __OK__

 

 

 

Seems grading isn’t perfect yet.

Did the exact same thing yesterday, in testing. 3 "normal approaches", with center ball and either I had to cut the throttle and got EGIW or kept steady/went MIL before touchdown and got a rising ball.

Then, I flew a slightly low ball on purpose, I could tell I came in a little too low and yet I got _OK_ 3-wire.

[Swift.]

I don't know if its a lack of currency, but in the past couple of weeks I've found myself having to chop the throttle and hold in idle about 2 seconds before landing otherwise the VVI will start to rise when crossing the ramp

[BMGZ06]

I will also say I noticed the same thing. I have not flown the f18 in weeks or done traps at all since about 2 updates ago. I noticed not only did engine sound change but the response feels slower and yes the F18 either floats or sinks like a stone. I practiced last night in my own carrier mission with a 20 knot boat speed and 10 knots over the angle like I used to use before. The plane just wants to float like mad in close and I used to be able to fly the AOA and slope where I could start adding power and still grab a 3 or 4 wire over the wires so i never got EGIW. The plane for sure gets some ground effect over the deck now. If that is how it is in real life then I am good with it and will just have to adjust. Muscle memory is all messed up now though.

[Stearmandriver]

Ground effect is still reversed for the Hornet though; it sucks your nose down instead of reducing your descent rate... so this must be something else?

[Swift.]

Ground effect is still reversed for the Hornet though; it sucks your nose down instead of reducing your descent rate... so this must be something else?

 

I think there is both now, the AOA still spiked like it does from the reverse GE, but the VVI went up with it.

[Nealius]

I can confirm that as well. AoA bracket drops like a rock over the wires despite me not touching the pitch or trim.

[grant977]

I can confirm this finding as well.

[Harker]

Ok, new test. CASE III, relatively good weather, weight around 32,000 lbs, asymmetric loadout (empty double ugly). Flew a really stable approach. Around 1 NM, ICLS shows a just a tad high, but the IFLOLS shows a tiny bit low.

 

I switch to the ball, fly it the rest of the way and keep it perfectly centered. I fly it all the way to touchdown and go MIL exactly before touchdown. The ball stayed centered all the way, didn't rise or fall. My aircraft also didn't exhibit any floatiness over the ramp. I got _OK_ 3-wire. That approach felt very "correct", everything happened exactly as it should, both on my end and on DCS's end.

 

Strange. Now I'm wondering if the floating is related to certain conditions or even to the approach angle etc. Maybe it's that I wasn't on the glideslope perfectly before, I don't know.

[VFA41_Lion]

Ok, new test. CASE III, relatively good weather, weight around 32,000 lbs, asymmetric loadout (empty double ugly). Flew a really stable approach. Around 1 NM, ICLS shows a just a tad high, but the IFLOLS shows a tiny bit low.

 

I switch to the ball, fly it the rest of the way and keep it perfectly centered. I fly it all the way to touchdown and go MIL exactly before touchdown. The ball stayed centered all the way, didn't rise or fall. My aircraft also didn't exhibit any floatiness over the ramp. I got _OK_ 3-wire. That approach felt very "correct", everything happened exactly as it should, both on my end and on DCS's end.

 

Strange. Now I'm wondering if the floating is related to certain conditions or even to the approach angle etc. Maybe it's that I wasn't on the glideslope perfectly before, I don't know.

 

Or maybe the "floatiness" reported is pilot inputs become significantly more noticeable on the last mile of approach and small deviations become large ones. The only times I've seen myself float is when I wasn't totally calm on approach and started overcorrecting for when the deck starts rising or dropping from sea state.

[Nealius]

Or maybe the "floatiness" reported is pilot inputs become significantly more noticeable on the last mile of approach and small deviations become large ones. The only times I've seen myself float is when I wasn't totally calm on approach and started overcorrecting for when the deck starts rising or dropping from sea state.

 

That doesn't explain:

 

A) floatiness in certain weather conditions/servers and not in others

B) lack of floatiness in other carrier aircraft (Tomcat) -- these skills transfer almost directly if you eliminate DLC

C) sudden drop in AoA over the deck with zero pilot input.

[Ballinger French]

This float behavior exhibits the same tendency over land during conventional runway approaches.   Since this bug (and yes, it is NOT realistic) still exists three years later after this thread was orginally posted, one must assume it will never be addressed.   Oh well.   A free two week trial just saved me $80.   

Edited March 23, 2023 by Ballinger French