Mirage F1 project update

[Leviathan667]

On 6/10/2021 at 12:40 PM, Silver_Dragon said:

Thypoon/Hornet/F-86/F-5/AV-8B has been simulated and on develop on DCS. I think Aernes can turn to a Mirage III/F-104. Other point has been turn to make Helicopters.

 

 

Razbam has already said they'll make a Mirage IIIE module. No one has taken a stance on the F-104, though. Same with the F-4C.

[Silver_Dragon]

 
Razbam has already said they'll make a Mirage IIIE module. No one has taken a stance on the F-104, though. Same with the F-4C.

F-104 can coming from Italian 3rd party indiaFoxEcho. F-4 versions will coming ED/HB.

Enviado desde mi RNE-L21 mediante Tapatalk

[Bozon]

12 hours ago, Leviathan667 said:

 

Razbam has already said they'll make a Mirage IIIE module. No one has taken a stance on the F-104, though. Same with the F-4C.

RAZBAM has about 5 modules that they are supposedly developing - Super Tucano,  Mig23, F-15E, Electric Lightning, Mirage III, maybe more that I can’t remember. There is also some map they develop. Of those above, the Mirage III had practically no mention in their forum section in the last year. I don’t follow reddit or discord, so I have no idea if they posted anything there. To me it seems that the Mirage III has been abandoned.

[Kortana]

2 hours ago, Bozon said:

RAZBAM has about 5 modules that they are supposedly developing - Super Tucano,  Mig23, F-15E, Electric Lightning, Mirage III, maybe more that I can’t remember. There is also some map they develop. Of those above, the Mirage III had practically no mention in their forum section in the last year. I don’t follow reddit or discord, so I have no idea if they posted anything there. To me it seems that the Mirage III has been abandoned.

So my understanding is that the Mirage IIIEA is being developed as an AI asset for the Falklands/Malvinas map (along with the harrier FRS.1, A-4, Canberra, IA-58, and a few others). Their intent is to go on and produce full modules for the IA-58, FRS.1, and Mirage IIIEA, but bear in mind that developing all of the subsystems and flight model for a player module takes orders of magnitude more time than the AI module will.  

[Wacko_ZA]

please dont taint this exciting project, and this Dev's hard work and dedication by mentioning THAT dev here. thanks.

[potatoman530]

Aegres announced that the C-101 has reached its final version state and that work on the Mirage F1 will be accelerated in the most recent changelog for DCS. https://www.digitalcombatsimulator.com/en/newsletters/newsletter25062021-i97wkcvxhg7pvdnm82kf7iitl73cwm18.html 

[PetRock]

Hello @Vibora,

 

Looking forward to hearing more about the road to EA. Maybe more info early next month?

 

Hope everyone is having a good end of spring and summer!

 

 

Edited June 27, 2021 by PetRock
words

[suntw1989]

On 6/27/2021 at 5:01 AM, PetRock said:

Hello @Vibora,

 

Looking forward to hearing more about the road to EA. Maybe more info early next month?

 

Hope everyone is having a good end of spring and summer!

 

 

 

Hopefully, they add a pre-order page earlier.

Edited July 4, 2021 by suntw1989

[spartan2078]

1 hour ago, suntw1989 said:

Hopefully, they add a pre-order page earlier.

 

I hope this month. 

 

Edited July 4, 2021 by spartan2078

[Badger1-1]

I hope this year

[potatoman530]

Back in November they said they hoped to have EA for the Mirage F1 CE in half a year which is may however we all know what that nothing is completed on time in DCS. I just hope it comes out during the summer. 

[spartan2078]

yeah It would eb nice to have at least some news like a list of planned weapons or a timeline of realease of the differents varients. (I want the EB the most)

[Rudel_chw]

On my case I prefer to not worry about things over which I have no control, instead using my time to learn or practice aircrafts already released ... like the Hind on my case . 

 

I truly feel that it's best to let the developers work on this at their own pace, no need to stress them with "are we there yet?" types of posts. Just be ready to support them by purchasing the aircraft once it gets released, whenever that may be 

[kontiuka]

3 minutes ago, Rudel_chw said:

On my case ...

I tend to agree.  Not too interested in the occasional pic of a weapons pylon.  I'd rather have less frequent but beefier updates. 

[Arikaj]

13 hours ago, Rudel_chw said:

On my case I prefer to not worry about things over which I have no control, instead using my time to learn or practice aircrafts already released ... like the Hind on my case . 

 

I truly feel that it's best to let the developers work on this at their own pace, no need to stress them with "are we there yet?" types of posts. Just be ready to support them by purchasing the aircraft once it gets released, whenever that may be 

Agreed, but communication with the consumers just brings peace and doesn't stir up forums like now. Last info was EA in May, and since then, no info on it. Just a small headsup like we are a little/couple of months behind schedule would do. 

[WinterH]

47 minutes ago, Arikaj said:

Agreed, but communication with the consumers just brings peace and doesn't stir up forums like now. Last info was EA in May, and since then, no info on it. Just a small headsup like we are a little/couple of months behind schedule would do. 

Sometimes it does. However, many, many times, communication with consumers around here went like:

DEV: Here, some in dev stuff
Community: BLOOD FOR THE BLOOD GOD! SKULLS FOR THE SKULL THRONE!!! BLALSLGASEARARASRAGSDAHAGRHHRRR!!

 

It was never as clear cut as "EA in May", they have said something to the effect of "hoping the first version being ready for early access can be in about 6 months". When it comes to DCS module releases cchedules are bad, deadlines are unhealthy, for bug fixes etc, yeah, I'm fully behind them. But making a module ready for limelight takes time. And we have had info since that "hopefully in 6 months" comment: had a video, screenshots in a few occasions as far as I can recall, and in one of the recent newsletters they've said something like "C-101 is in release status now, and full attention is directed to Mirage F1"

[Rick50]

On 7/5/2021 at 11:17 AM, Rudel_chw said:

I truly feel that it's best to let the developers work on this at their own pace, no need to stress them with "are we there yet?" types of posts. Just be ready to support them by purchasing the aircraft once it gets released, whenever that may be 

 

 

Agreed!

 

 

I've never been involved in such a project. But I've been watching from a distance for 25 years, and the impression that I get, is that making complex accurate aircraft simulations, both civilian and military/combat, is that it's... a long grind. Make a model. Shape that model well. Compare it to real pics. Figure out how to make the shape more realistic. Thousands of hours to research the aircraft. How it flies, airspeed at different pressure density, and at each of those speeds/altitudes, does drag stop your velocity increase, or do you easily achieve max velocity never exceed? Do you get buffetting, vibrations and occilations at this speed/alt, but not at that one? How does high speed stall characteristics change with alt?  Is the nose stable at 8 degrees AOA or does it hunt about, at that altitude and airspeed? 

 

Does this ordnance have a delay fuse option, airburst or point det? What's it's velocity rate of degredation, and thus trajectory? MAke sure all the model animations have the correct behaviors, and correct geometry (flaps that actually go to 39.5 degrees, not the  listed 40 degrees in the POH, otherwise someone will complain it doesn't look right). Ensure the loadout combinations are realistic, that rockets' can't work on the centerline in this variant. Don't want to get nasty-grams from buyers. Checking facts, getting second and third sources to confirm data, configurations from actual SME's. 

 

Oh no, now the industry has gone to ZXY textures, we need to see if this is a quick fix update, or needing a whole new model built. Surely some of it's salvageable.  Wait, the model converter to let the game engine is now not working properly? Do we need to get new 3d modeling software? Learn that new software and start from the halfway point? Ok, great, that hurdle's done. Geez, it's been a year since we thought we had an ETA. 

 

Oh, a major update for the game engine... it'll all be better for the gamers, will look nicer, better this better that... but we can't release this before the update, we need to play-test with the new update, make SURE there's no show-stopping bugs, major functions "broken". MAke sure our textures look nice, not a rendering mess. Test for the radars and fire controls to make sure they work like the real one. Wait, the Subject Matter Experts say that's not how it really works? What do they mean exactly? How do we program it to match what they are saying?

 

I'm not trying to be pessimistic, at all. I'm just saying that it seems to me this is not a 9 to 5 job for everyone on such projects, not a career with giant expectations of showing up your criminal defense lawyer brother. It seems more like a commitment to a labor of love. The love of aviation, of that aircraft in particular, the very deep desire to fly/fight in that aircraft. And maybe even see some financial returns for all that effort. Maybe you break even on the costs:

 

-hardware spent and upgraded,

-software licenses,

-personal time and effort put in,

-costs of obtaining data/information about the aircraft 

-subcontrator payments. Maybe you hired someone to really specialize in very high quality textures. A sound recording expert who could be sent to record the real aircraft, and edit the recordings into a useable sound file. Maybe a specialist in 3d scanning, with tools costing $10,000 or more, to get a super-precise model.  

 

Maybe you will have a hit on your hands, maybe enough to buy a new car. Or an SUV for the wife and sportscar for yourself. Or maybe you end up just glad that some people bought it and appreciate the product, and now you can move on, while finally enjoying the product not as a beta tester, but as a virtual fighter pilot!

 

Oh cr@p, another major update in 9 months, better book some time to play-test our product and then de-bug in time for the update launch. Guess the Ms.  won't be happy having to shift our vacation travel time.

 

Now... do we relax and shut down the company, or do we take on the Phantom? What variant? Is there enough documentation to do it justice? Do we have the money to put into this? Will it sell well enough to make the effort worthwhile? Is it going to be a can of worms? Who do we p!ss off with our variant choice, the Americans wanting a NAVY carrier jet, or the rest of the world who had a Vulcan up front?

 

 

All of that said, the efforts are appreciated!  Forget the hype train, forget marketing... when the product is fully finished testing, has approval from ED and whoever other stakeholders, when it's a week from showing up in the ED store and STEAM,  that's when you can upload 100 screenshots, 2 promotional videos, start making tutorial videos, do the social media thing... and the virtual aviators will flock to it.  Word of mouth in the community will spread, and when the product lives up to aviator expectations, word of mouth between customers will go MUCH further than screenshots 8 months before release.  

 

[Rudel_chw]

 

I've never been involved in such a project. But ....

 

 I'm sure the Aerges people will get a good laugh out of your brilliant post  

 

... I'm  also sure you are not too off-the-mark on this one. Best regards.

Edited July 6, 2021 by Rudel_chw

[Rick50]

 

Well, I have been involved in a couple of projects that have some of the same characteristics, and the reality of actually doing those projects ended up VERY different than I thought they'd be!  What I thought was going to be fun, easy, fast, and a slam dunk based on my subject knowledge... ended up taking about 20 times longer than I thought... because doing the last 10% took 95% of my time and effort... checking sources and facts, double checking what I might have missed. Re-checking. Getting someone else's fresh eyes to see mistakes that I could no longer pick up. I found that after a while of being on a project, it became MUCH harder to catch small mistakes, because... I dunno, some mental trick has your mind playing on you. 

 

What I mean by "the last 10%" taking "95%", is that I thought getting the bulk of the content was going to be the big effort... but nope, it was the last bit to polish the rough edges, ensuring the product was indeed precise. That it was truly worthwhile to the customer, not some vague throw-away full of inconsistencies.

 

They say "perfection is the enemy of good-enough". That's true in so many ways. But when you DO need to aim for perfection, catching the minor mistakes and issues becomes increasingly difficult the more you stare at the same subject for days and weeks on end. It must be very difficult to do so for a truly complex product, that will be scrutinised so deeply by a few, even if most will enjoy it greatly!

 

[NightFlier]

Hi guys,

I'm one of those eager to fly the F1 and together with other squadrons, members of a joint aviation group, are planning to create a private PvP Campaign recreating the War in Angola.
Needless to say, the F1 is one of the main modules we'd like to have in.
We should begin to develop that soon and it will take a while to be ready.
I know there is not a certain answer about the release date but, according to the actual status of the F1 project, do you think it's reasonable to wait for it?

 

[Rick50]

6 hours ago, Night Flier said:

Hi guys,

I'm one of those eager to fly the F1 and together with other squadrons, members of a joint aviation group, are planning to create a private PvP Campaign recreating the War in Angola.
Needless to say, the F1 is one of the main modules we'd like to have in.
We should begin to develop that soon and it will take a while to be ready.
I know there is not a certain answer about the release date but, according to the actual status of the F1 project, do you think it's reasonable to wait for it?

 

 

Huh?!?

 

Oh ok, got it! Asking if you should wait to Create the campaign and so on...

 

NO.

 

No, don't wait for the F1 to be released, it's not certain when it could be finished/ready.  Might be next week, might be 2 years from now (probably not that far, but we don't really know). Meaning, look forward to it, keep an eye on the news... but go ahead with developing your campaign. That will be the big time consuming part at your end. Use a substitute aircraft for now... maybe the Mirage2k or something. 

 

Make your campaign. MAke the missions. Compare to historical records. Test fly, debug. Face criticism and scrutiny from other virt pilots. Play-test for realistic difficulty vs expected accomplishments Vs historical reality. Make sure the waypoints make some sort of sense. Make sure AMRAAM's aren't been used, so no one gets pissed about being SPAMRAAMed! Make sure no all-aspect heaters and so on.  Add some of those new FARP designs, add in ground vehicles and objects to help elevate immersion. 

 

Once the F1 is ready, you should EASILY be able to substitute the new module into the campaign with little difficulty.

 

For instance, Alpenwolf's "Cold War" server had no slots for the Mi-24 HIND... but the first missions got them almost right away. Within a week, it seems more than half his missions had the HIND available, and I think now most or all of them are about to have HIND missions. And the HIND early access JUST came out.  I think it's just a matter of going into the mission editor and substituting aircraft type and munition loadouts, leaving the taskings, waypoints, enemy AI and all that other jazz untouched. 

 

Why?

 

Because it'd be a shame to suddenly get this cool jet, and not have a playground, a virtualbattlefield, that is appropriate to the type, to play in!  "All dressed up and nowhere to go!"

With my suggestion, you might be fighting your campaign in the proper aircraft within an hour of downloading the aircraft! Or at least, right after learning the new jet's characterisitcs, mapping yur HOTAS and keyboard functions, editing the first mission for the new jet... and you are suddenly over Angola in the proper jet! The hard and time consuming part is making the missions and campaign. 

[NightFlier]

On 7/10/2021 at 4:29 PM, Rick50 said:

 

Huh?!?

 

Oh ok, got it! Asking if you should wait to Create the campaign and so on...

 

NO.

 

No, don't wait for the F1 to be released, it's not certain when it could be finished/ready.  Might be next week, might be 2 years from now (probably not that far, but we don't really know). Meaning, look forward to it, keep an eye on the news... but go ahead with developing your campaign. That will be the big time consuming part at your end. Use a substitute aircraft for now... maybe the Mirage2k or something. 

 

Make your campaign. MAke the missions. Compare to historical records. Test fly, debug. Face criticism and scrutiny from other virt pilots. Play-test for realistic difficulty vs expected accomplishments Vs historical reality. Make sure the waypoints make some sort of sense. Make sure AMRAAM's aren't been used, so no one gets pissed about being SPAMRAAMed! Make sure no all-aspect heaters and so on.  Add some of those new FARP designs, add in ground vehicles and objects to help elevate immersion. 

 

Once the F1 is ready, you should EASILY be able to substitute the new module into the campaign with little difficulty.

 

For instance, Alpenwolf's "Cold War" server had no slots for the Mi-24 HIND... but the first missions got them almost right away. Within a week, it seems more than half his missions had the HIND available, and I think now most or all of them are about to have HIND missions. And the HIND early access JUST came out.  I think it's just a matter of going into the mission editor and substituting aircraft type and munition loadouts, leaving the taskings, waypoints, enemy AI and all that other jazz untouched. 

 

Why?

 

Because it'd be a shame to suddenly get this cool jet, and not have a playground, a virtualbattlefield, that is appropriate to the type, to play in!  "All dressed up and nowhere to go!"

With my suggestion, you might be fighting your campaign in the proper aircraft within an hour of downloading the aircraft! Or at least, right after learning the new jet's characterisitcs, mapping yur HOTAS and keyboard functions, editing the first mission for the new jet... and you are suddenly over Angola in the proper jet! The hard and time consuming part is making the missions and campaign. 

Thank you for your answer

What I meant was if it's worth it waiting to play (not develop) the campaign.
It will be a PvP campaign, few triggers, missions built week by week depending on the results of the previous missions etc.
Being an African war with poor weapons, vehicles and so on...there's no need for modern technology  Men and skills!

[Rick50]

Well... you could pick Mig-19 vs Sabrejets... Vs Mig-21's and -15's... maybe throw in a P-47 as a COIN type striker maybe. I mean none of those are Mirage, but the Mig-19 and -21 have some real performance, very basic "heaters" and rely on cannons.

 

Actually, you could add in those light trainers, like the L-39 and the 339, as light strike that were used by most African nations for a  long time.

[potatoman530]

Mirage F1 would allow for quiet a few campaigns to be done. Like the Iran Iraq war, Bush war, Gulf war Perejil island crisis and perhaps Libyan 2011 intervention. I just really want this plane, but I understand that it takes time to make a good quality module. 

[Harlikwin]

2 hours ago, potatoman530 said:

Mirage F1 would allow for quiet a few campaigns to be done. Like the Iran Iraq war, Bush war, Gulf war Perejil island crisis and perhaps Libyan 2011 intervention. I just really want this plane, but I understand that it takes time to make a good quality module. 

 

Mirage F1, Mirage3, and Mig23 (early/late variants), and F4, and an official A4 are my most awaited modules. They fill out the bulk of cold war assets we are missing, And let us do arab israeli wars, iran/iraq, south africa, and if Razbam does a SHAR then the falklands.