Will we ever get realistic physics for carrier landings?

[obious]

Hi All,

 

First let me say that the below isn’t a criticism, I pre-ordered the Super Carrier the day it became available and think it’s a great addition to DCS World 2.5.

 

As much fun as I’ve been having with it since it’s release into Beta last year, I can’t help but feel let down by the landing experience at touchdown. I guess my main point is that I feel like the instant a single wheel touches down the aircraft becomes ‘glued’ to the deck and doesn’t ‘bounce around’ as much as I feel it should. I know ED struggled to fix the deck sliding issues on the old carrier implementation and a reduced physics implementation is the price we paid for the fix?
 

Couple that with the lack of arrest wire physics/animations and I’m starting to feel like (through lack of updates recently), the SC is just a prettier Stennis model with a great deck crew animation element.
 

BTW I think the above is applicable to both the F-18 and the F-14

 

Am I mad or does anyone else feel the same? I was somewhat triggered to write this after watching Heatblur’s F-14 50th Anniversary tribute video which was awesome apart from the somewhat cringeworthy traps 

[fmedges]

No I don’t think that you are wrong, it does need some improvements.

Edited January 2, 2021 by fmedges

[Jackjack171]

I agree. I still can't put my finger on what's missing. Gear compression and wire physics? Something is missing though!

[CoBlue]

8 hours ago, obious said:

BTW I think the above is applicable to both the F-18 and the F-14.

Couple that with the lack of arrest wire physics/animations.

F-14 has arcadish trap-physics, it glues itself every time, no hook-skip, you can be way to fast or slow on AoA .

F-18 is the opposite, wrong AoA or hook-skip, you won't trap! Everybody traps the F-14 every time, F-18 bolters more often & is a challenge every time to trap if you're doing proper Case I.

Dude, they're worlds apart when it comes to trap-physics.....you sure you've got "Game flight mode" disabled?

 

"Lack of arrest wire physics/animations?" what lacks? there are animations.

 

 

[notproplayer3]

1 hour ago, CoBlue said:

F-14 has arcadish trap-physics, it glues itself every time, no hook-skip, you can be way to fast or slow on AoA .

F-18 is the opposite, wrong AoA or hook-skip, you won't trap! Everybody traps the F-14 every time, F-18 bolters more often & is a challenge every time to trap if you're doing proper Case I.

Dude, they're worlds apart when it comes to trap-physics.....you sure you've got "Game flight mode" disabled?

 

"Lack of arrest wire physics/animations?" what lacks? there are animations.

 

 

Yes, now that you mention it, trapping the f14 seems awfully easy. Like you said, you simply slam the plane down on the deck and it will catch the wire. That's pretty much exactly like the FC3 su33.

The f/a-18 on the other hand. I remember how frustrated I was when doing my first carrier landings because it was so goddamn hard to catch the wire.

[fagulha]

+1 here. 

Felling same here.

 

As soon the aircraft land it feels "glued" to the deck, no bouncing, etc

[obious]

9 hours ago, CoBlue said:

 

"Lack of arrest wire physics/animations?" what lacks? there are animations.

 

 

 

If you look at the footage here for the F-14, its as if the wire just sticks to the back of the Tomcat rather than the actual hook.

Edited January 2, 2021 by obious

[Riojano]

First i want better carrier physics, some more roll (pitch is good enough, but a little more would be fine) is needed. Also no slippery deck would be awesome. 

[CoBlue]

4 minutes ago, obious said:

 

If you look at the footage here for the F-14, its as if the wire just sticks to the back of the Tomcat rather than the actual wire.

Yes, you're right. F-14's trap physics are arcadish & it's Heatblur's fault not the SC's or ED's. They've been delaying the trap-physics, since release, coz they think there are more "important things" to do, a shame for an Naval airplane.

 

Anyways all concerns about trap-physics should be posted in the respective aircraft forums.

[Fri13]

32 minutes ago, Riojano said:

First i want better carrier physics, some more roll (pitch is good enough, but a little more would be fine) is needed. Also no slippery deck would be awesome. 

 

If the captain tries to turn the ship in the wind, then why would the ship be rolling heavily when it is traveling directly toward the waves?

 

[Stearmandriver]

6 hours ago, Fri13 said:

 

If the captain tries to turn the ship in the wind, then why would the ship be rolling heavily when it is traveling directly toward the waves?

 

Because cross or secondary swell is often a thing on the open ocean.  

[Jackjack171]

7 hours ago, Fri13 said:

 

If the captain tries to turn the ship in the wind, then why would the ship be rolling heavily when it is traveling directly toward the waves?

 

Oh, she rolls brother, like a mug! I still remember the calls, "Stand by for heavy rolls". As she turns, she rolls and you either have to stop your aircraft moves or be very careful. I've seen a Prowler jackknife will under tow with a tractor, very scary!

[aviation360]

Last I heard Heatblur will be adding Hook skip physics to the F-14 some time in the future, also I have missed wires multiple times when landing the F-14 especially learning Case 1, and even more so trying Case 3 I messed up, took me for attempts to catch the wire on my first Case 3, you don’t get the wire every time in the tomcat unless you’re experienced or you aren’t doing it correctly yet found a way to trap every time. Regardless Hook skip is being worked on from Heatblur last I heard, and it still takes practice to trap on the carrier.

[Bonz]

As someone who has done both ... RL and Sim traps ... what's missing is the physical sensation of deceleration and being thrown forward into your straps... Not something even Navy RL simulators can duplicate.  I would focus Future Super-Carrier improvements on the AirBoss station, better CATCC operations, ACLS, the Burble effect and pitching and rolling decks.

[Nealius]

On 2/19/2021 at 6:05 AM, Bonz said:

As someone who has done both ... RL and Sim traps ... what's missing is the physical sensation of deceleration and being thrown forward into your straps... Not something even Navy RL simulators can duplicate.  I would focus Future Super-Carrier improvements on the AirBoss station, better CATCC operations, ACLS, the Burble effect and pitching and rolling decks.

 

Shouldn't there also be quite a bit of bounce and nose-whip of the airframe while decelerating? The lack of that is what I notice the most; jets just seem glued to the deck on trapping.

[CarbonFox]

I'd just like to see improvements to the trap animation where the goes from catching the cable to being halting the aircraft in one single frame. It also seems like the aircraft come to halt after trapping alittle to short of where they appear to in real life footage.

[Jackjack171]

1 hour ago, CarbonFox said:

I'd just like to see improvements to the trap animation where the goes from catching the cable to being halting the aircraft in one single frame. It also seems like the aircraft come to halt after trapping alittle to short of where they appear to in real life footage.

That's situational. It happens IRL. Don't rely on what you see in a video. The trap animations do need improving though!

[Blackeye]

On 2/21/2021 at 7:59 AM, Nealius said:

 

Shouldn't there also be quite a bit of bounce and nose-whip of the airframe while decelerating?

 

I don't think so.

The high rate of descent and the high AoA make sure that you have quite a bit of weight on the wheels on touchdown immediately overcoming any ground effect.

The gear is designed to not only withstand those hard landings but also dampen the impact and not act as a spring.

And once the nose drops the reduction in AoA reduces the lift even further so that the aircraft will firmly stick to the ground, not to mention the rapid deceleration.

The nose will probably dip down during this but nothing crazy.

 

Here's a nice video of an F-14 landing on a carrier:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y45rzmDaABI&t=231

It's certainly a bit violent but there's no deck hopping.

 

 

[draconus]

17 hours ago, Blackeye said:

Here's a nice video of an F-14 landing on a carrier:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y45rzmDaABI&t=231

It's certainly a bit violent but there's no deck hopping.

In this same video I see aircraft wobbling laterally and dip nose then back up after trap.

[fagulha]

On 2/21/2021 at 6:59 AM, Nealius said:

 

Shouldn't there also be quite a bit of bounce and nose-whip of the airframe while decelerating? The lack of that is what I notice the most; jets just seem glued to the deck on trapping.

Agreed. Aircraft just seem glued to the deck. Hope that can be possible to improve by ED.

I fly in VR and it´s a deal breaker. At least for me, i know that probably for others makes no difference.

[Blackeye]

10 hours ago, draconus said:

In this same video I see aircraft wobbling laterally and dip nose then back up after trap.

 

So you basically agree then - a nose dip but no bouncing.

[Nealius]

On 2/25/2021 at 8:17 AM, Blackeye said:

 

So you basically agree then - a nose dip but no bouncing.

 

Nose dip and coming back up is bouncing. I don't mean "deck hopping" where the tires separate from the deck, I mean the gear suspension causing the airframe to bounce. 

[Pieterras]

here a video of how to operate realistic carrier ops in 

 

 

[fagulha]

It´s not only a carrier issue, Even in taxiways on AFB´s the aircraft seems glued to the floor, the front gear suspension bounces a little but i noticed that the rear/main gear suspension does not move while the aircraft is moving and that gives the impression that the aircraft is glued to the floor. Hope this can be improved....

[obious]

So here we are almost 4 years later and still no better physics for the wires.