ED has raised the DCS system requirements on the steam store page (GTX 1070 is now listed as a minimum for low settings).

[MiG21bisFishbedL]

31 minutes ago, NineLine said:

Guys, honestly, I don't see a huge performance change right now with 2.7, so guys still with lower cards than a 1070 will still have similar results they have now, but really the requirements will continue to climb. We want to set expectations for users coming in and for the future.

 

Try not to panic right now.

We'll have to take your word for it, but we've done this song and dance before. I've seen devs jump their minimums up just to cover for poor optimization and ED always seems reluctant to do anything about that particular topic. What they have done is appreciated, don't get me wrong. But, still, more is needed. A lot more. The threads on texture size and rendering would be a good start.

[Nealius]

  

9 minutes ago, 3WA said:

Yeah, I have an old GTX-770.  Already hitting about 60 fps on low graphics.  If I drop to 45 or so,  no HUGE deal.

 

I prefer DCS to keep on moving forward.  Graphics cards will eventually come down in price.

 

Besides, you don't HAVE to upgrade.  Just wait until you can buy a new machine that can handle it.

 

 

Here in Japan graphics cards never go down in price. They just disappear off shelves then increase in price  The 2080Ti averages $2,000~3,000. Cheapest I can find is $1,800.

Edited February 21, 2021 by Nealius

[flankerjun]

I have an RTX2070 ,32g RAM and 1TB SSD，still can not get satisfying performance in MP，only 30~50 fps.

[NineLine]

53 minutes ago, Nealius said:

Wow, even an RTX2070 isn't enough for recommended VR settings? $1000 just for a video card is rather unacceptable....

That's recommended, not minimum. Recommended is usually suggesting the better hardware.

[Nealius]

56 minutes ago, MiG21bisFishbedL said:

We'll have to take your word for it, but we've done this song and dance before. I've seen devs jump their minimums up just to cover for poor optimization and ED always seems reluctant to do anything about that particular topic. What they have done is appreciated, don't get me wrong. But, still, more is needed. A lot more. The threads on texture size and rendering would be a good start.

 

After experiencing the Great Merge from 1.5.x to 2.x.x, how the new engine was pushed to the limits instead of used for optimization, and the recurring memory leaks that led to shifting the goal posts via upping RAM requirements, I fear the same cycle will repeat with 2.7 and all future engine "upgrades." I hope I'm wrong, but experience says otherwise...

 

I also don't put stock into performance the developers and community managers/PR people claim they get. For one there's bias to sell the product, but more importantly it's clear that they do not run the exact same build that goes out to consumers, as evidenced by the huge discrepancies in performance and bugs experienced by a large portion of the community versus those experienced--or not experienced--by the people representing the company. If they were on the same build they would get the same performance and bugs as we do...

Edited February 21, 2021 by Nealius

[Csgo GE oh yeah]

If you want better graphics and VR and all that nice stuff, you can't expect the system requirements to stay the same as they were 10 years ago. 

It's good that ED updated the recommended system requirements i guess. It's much more realistic now. 

Most important now is that DCS is going to evolve and starts to make better use of those system resources. 

 

 

Edited February 21, 2021 by Csgo GE oh yeah

[MiG21bisFishbedL]

12 minutes ago, Nealius said:

 

After experiencing the Great Merge from 1.5.x to 2.x.x, how the new engine was pushed to the limits instead of used for optimization, and the recurring memory leaks that led to shifting the goal posts via upping RAM requirements, I fear the same cycle will repeat with 2.7 and all future engine "upgrades." I hope I'm wrong, but experience says otherwise...

 

I also don't put stock into performance the developers and community managers/PR people claim they get. For one there's bias to sell the product, but more importantly it's clear that they do not run the exact same build that goes out to consumers, as evidenced by the huge discrepancies in performance and bugs experienced by a large portion of the community versus those experienced--or not experienced--by the people representing the company. If they were on the same build they would get the same performance and bugs as we do...

 

9L's been one to give it to us without too much market spin in the past, but I understand your frustration. The whole DCS engine itself is held together by ducttape and hope at this point.

[Fri13]

1 hour ago, Nealius said:

Wow, even an RTX2070 isn't enough for recommended VR settings? $1000 just for a video card is rather unacceptable....

$1000 for a GPU + $500 for a CPU + $200 possible new motherboard + $300 possible new RAM. Not to miss possible new PSU.

 

The display players are often easily just capable lower something. But VR users not so much.   

 

Upgrading just the GPU is not often enough as you need to feed that card as well. Hence other components requires upgrading.

 

But as Nineline has osteen said in his testing, 2.7 was same patience as now.

But this is as much about what could be done already with texture optimization.

 

But we need to wait and see what vulcan does. As we right now have 80% of our computers calculation resources unutilized. But that doesn't touch texture memories for GPU.

 

Those games minimal hardware requirements are often little over, just to ease support people workload and free programmers work for new tech.

 

I think I could get DCS run nicely in 10 years old CPU and 5 years old GPU, with 16 GB RAM. But it would take little doing.

 

But I wouldn't expect it to be most beautiful graphically.

That is something I agree here that texture quality could be lowered with rough hand for older setups.

 

But there is times when one just needs upgrade PC. And DCS requires pretty big jumps. But it is not ED fault either that there are idiotic prices demands for GPU as well HOTAS....

Without performance demands, I would already own Pimax best offerings. But when DCS can't run it no matter hardware, I gladly go to second best thing, Rift S. I can ease HW requirements heavily with acceptable drop in quality.

 

I trust Nineline comments, but I am preparing +/-10% performance differences.

[notproplayer3]

Interesting but what resolution ? I play 1080P high settings (getting ~45fps in the caucasus) with a gtx970.

Though I can see why my config is really starting to get bad with current DCS, Syria map is barely (sometimes isn't at all) playable because of the stutters. 

I guess Marianna's map will probably feel pretty bad too. 

Yeah, I guess you can really see the difference between old DCS (current Caucasus map) that runs totally fine and future DCS (Syria) that is barely playable.

Makes sense to up the requirements, especially if the free Mariana's map is going to be hungry in resources. 

 

Now it's up to me to find a GPU in these ridiculous times (I kid you not, I laughed out loud when I found out the gtx 1070 was 800$ )

 

[MiG21bisFishbedL]

23 minutes ago, notproplayer3 said:

Interesting but what resolution ? I play 1080P high settings (getting ~45fps in the caucasus) with a gtx970.

Though I can see why my config is really starting to get bad with current DCS, Syria map is barely (sometimes isn't at all) playable because of the stutters. 

I guess Marianna's map will probably feel pretty bad too. 

Yeah, I guess you can really see the difference between old DCS (current Caucasus map) that runs totally fine and future DCS (Syria) that is barely playable.

Makes sense to up the requirements, especially if the free Mariana's map is going to be hungry in resources. 

 

Now it's up to me to find a GPU in these ridiculous times (I kid you not, I laughed out loud when I found out the gtx 1070 was 800$ )

 

I had to kick Syria down to low on my old 970. But, it ran pretty smooth after that while also still looking pretty good. 

 

I actually expect Marianas to run better than Syria, though.

Edited February 21, 2021 by MiG21bisFishbedL

[Csgo GE oh yeah]

Yeah it's hard to believe that 3080's are still almost impossible to buy. 
Not to mention the price hike. 
Damned minders  

edit* oh lol a 3080 is around 1200 dollars now , and still unavailable 

Edited February 21, 2021 by Csgo GE oh yeah

[sirrah]

5 hours ago, NineLine said:

Guys, honestly, I don't see a huge performance change right now with 2.7

Thanks NineLine. That's comforting to read 

 

Edited February 21, 2021 by sirrah

[Tom Kazansky]

My son runs DCS 2.5.6 with a GTX1050ti with low settings quite well. Does it mean that DCS 2.7 won't run on his PC anymore? Will he get a warning before updating at Steam?

[BIGNEWY]

only requirement for 2.7 is dropping windows 7 support. 

 

thanks 

[Tom Kazansky]

4 minutes ago, BIGNEWY said:

only requirement for 2.7 is dropping windows 7 support. 

 

thanks 

Thank you. I'm very glad to read that.

[Mad_Shell]

Hi  @NineLine  @BIGNEWY

As LucShep mentionned in one of his comments, several threads are pointing out the lack of optimization for textures, wasting large amounts of VRAM:

 

https://forums.eagle.ru/topic/243199-suggestion-to-ed-and-3rd-parties-devs-size-and-formats-of-dds

https://forums.eagle.ru/topic/248043-32-bit-normal-maps/

 

 

In none of those threads there are any ED staff reply. Is this problem aknowledged by ED? Is it intended? Is it looked upon?

Edited February 21, 2021 by Mad_Shell

[Rudel_chw]

7 hours ago, Fri13 said:

$1000 for a GPU + $500 for a CPU + $200 possible new motherboard + $300 possible new RAM. Not to miss possible new PSU.

 

Aren't we exagerating this a bit .. I replaced my GPU a few months ago and kept my processor, motherboard, RAM and PSU ... my upgrade was from a GTX-970 to a GTX-1070TI ... the card was purchased second hand and the cost was around US$ 400.

[Expert]

and what about dlss for dcs?

[Fri13]

38 minutes ago, Rudel_chw said:

 

Aren't we exagerating this a bit .. I replaced my GPU a few months ago and kept my processor, motherboard, RAM and PSU ... my upgrade was from a GTX-970 to a GTX-1070TI ... the card was purchased second hand and the cost was around US$ 400.

Nope. As if you go for high end GPU, then you want high end CPU with it to feed it. And DCS is more CPU demanding than GPU, so better go for it.

And if one does CPU upgrade, it can lead to MB upgrade and same time to possibly to memory upgrade as well if those two can't support new CPU or GPU.

 

The GTX1070 is already two generations older. It is compatible with the 970 era hardware and as well for performances.

 

The fact is, one doing a upgrade for a $1000

 GPU can be required to make bigger investment to support that upgrade.

[Rudel_chw]

42 minutes ago, Fri13 said:

Nope. As if you go for high end GPU, then you want high end CPU with it to feed it....

 

You seem to be stuck on that point of view ... OF COURSE, I would upgrade every single item of my PC if I had enough budget ... but it is not always strictly needed, I upgraded just the GPU and my fps increased 40%. And I already had 32 GB of DDR4 memory .. what would have been the point on increasing it to 64?   

 

45 minutes ago, Fri13 said:

The GTX1070 is already two generations older. It is compatible with the 970 era hardware and as well for performances.

 

As any benchmark would tell you, the 1070ti is almost 50% faster than the 970 and it is not the same generation, the 1070 is one generation newer.

[Expert]

1 hour ago, Expert said:

and what about dlss for dcs?

[wilbur81]

17 hours ago, Enduro14 said:

Save money for upgrades....

Upgrades, if we are speaking of GPU's, are not available and may not be for quite some time. Secondly, one who would like to upgrade from their current, say 1070, to a 2000 series card, or even a 1080 will need to pay in excess of $1200+... the GPU market right now is an absolute nightmare. Used 1000 and 2000 series GPUs are more expensive than the msrp of the 3000 series cards... which are all out of stock. For perspective: I purchased my brand new EVGA 1070 SC card for $393.89 on Amazon in 2017. You can now get a used one for $701.99 (plus $8 shipping )

 

Perhaps the moral of the story? GPU prices never go down with time. 

Edited February 21, 2021 by wilbur81

[Fri13]

2 hours ago, Rudel_chw said:

 

You seem to be stuck on that point of view ... OF COURSE, I would upgrade every single item of my PC if I had enough budget ... but it is not always strictly needed, I upgraded just the GPU and my fps increased 40%. And I already had 32 GB of DDR4 memory .. what would have been the point on increasing it to 64?   

 

You are stuck to idea now that I am saying opposite than I am. Read again.

 

2 hours ago, Rudel_chw said:

As any benchmark would tell you, the 1070ti is almost 50% faster than the 970 and it is not the same generation, the 1070 is one generation newer.

 

Read again, I didn't talk about the performance. I talked about compatibility with hardware and the price range. If you pair 3080 with a 10 years old CPU, you are not going to get performance out of it as you would get with a CPU that is capable to maximize its performance. Hence it is not wise to upgrade one single piece as GPU to old PC that can't deliver the value of the money. 

[Rudel_chw]

5 minutes ago, Fri13 said:

 If you pair 3080 with a 10 years old CPU, you are not going to get performance out of it ...

 

Who would be using a 10 year old processor with DCS and yet have the money to consider purchasing a 3080 ? who?

 

I had a couple of years old Ryzen 3600 (like a lot of people, most users upgrade processor every 3 years), so I could get a lot of improvement changing just the GPU ... and I don't think that I'm an exception in this regard.

 

Amazing, the lengths one person can go to avoid admiting that he was exagerating his case.  

[Top Jockey]

12 hours ago, Nealius said:

  

 

Here in Japan graphics cards never go down in price. They just disappear off shelves then increase in price  The 2080Ti averages $2,000~3,000. Cheapest I can find is $1,800.

 

 

... here in Portugal those values are roughly equivalent to 2,5 and 4 times the minimum monthly wage.

(And in many other parts of the world it can surelly be even worst.)

 

I do appreciate DCS a LOT, but I won't start spending ridiculous amounts of money on hardware in a foreseable future.