How good is the flight model?

[XPACT]

I tried to replicate it both slow and at 300km/h, collective fully down and nose up, I over revved rotor at 300km/h one but there was still no sudden pitch up. Post a short track file and I will gladly take a look at it.

Edited June 18, 2021 by XPACT

[deathbysybian]

23 minutes ago, sublime said:

This is finally how to describe what I meant when I said I was skeptical about some fm things.  This doesn't feel right and it's very violent. And you're right I get it trying to slow and descend 

What I can say is I've had this effect on my remote control helicopter when I installed modified paddles which were lighter, to reduce stability and increase responsiveness.  Flying in FFF I experienced a sudden pitch up to 90 degrees.  I'm skeptical that these flight reponses would be left designed into a real helicopter though.

[M1Combat]

"For example on Ka-50 that doesn't happen because before your nose goes up your coaxial rotor blades already chopped themselves to pieces."

 

It doesn't happen on the KA50 because it has coaxial rotors.  They spin opposite direction so there's always lift on both sides no matter your speed.  The blade chopping themselves to pieces is due to the pilot not reducing blade pitch at high speeds.   The Shark can go "very fast" in a dive.  Reduce the blade pitch.  It's the dial to the left of and above your knee that goes to I think 13.

[deathbysybian]

7 minutes ago, M1Combat said:

"For example on Ka-50 that doesn't happen because before your nose goes up your coaxial rotor blades already chopped themselves to pieces."

 

It doesn't happen on the KA50 because it has coaxial rotors.  They spin opposite direction so there's always lift on both sides no matter your speed.  The blade chopping themselves to pieces is due to the pilot not reducing blade pitch at high speeds.   The Shark can go "very fast" in a dive.  Reduce the blade pitch.  It's the dial to the left of and above your knee that goes to I think 13.

Doesn't happen in the huey either.  It does happen in the mi8 to some extent, which is probably because they copied the flight model and tweaked it.

[XPACT]

1 hour ago, M1Combat said:

It doesn't happen on the KA50 because it has coaxial rotors.

 

Well it's not as simple as that. Retreating blade stall happens on that kind of coaxial design also but there will be no banking to left or right that will be canceled out but nose should still pitch up at one point. Thing is coaxial rotors make a lot of stuff much different to model and warp your head around it.

 

It was a bad example by me considering blade collision because only reason that happens is as you mentioned high blade pitch that will cause a lot of flapping on the bottom rotor. With no collective input you can get away with some high speeds but nose will try to go up even in DCS (just tested it to see if my brain still works at 5AM).

[Quadg]

its too soon to say how good the flight model is because we are all still complete noobs.

 

even if you have 1000 hours in another airframe. (like me)

 

dont forget it has wings. which are pitched quite high so they are level when you have the nose down in fast level flight.

 

a little back stick and these are going to act like elevators.

[Syndrome]

17 hours ago, Fri13 said:

 

The old discussions about "How to prepare for MI-24P when released, what module to fly" is interesting now as hindsight.

 

 

 

It's an interesting question.  Probably depends on what you're trying to train.  The Mi-8 probably trains best for dealing with VRS, which the Hind is very susceptible.  The Huey trains against hover drift and PIOs, important general chopper skills.  The Blackshark trains for CAS tactics.  And even the much maligned Gaz trains on how to deal with twitchiness and over correction, which the Hind kinda has a bit when in a hover.   

 

I have to agree with the assessments above though, if you've flown the other DCS choppers, then the Hind FM is very well done, intuitive, and enjoyable.  Definitely my new favorite.  

Edited June 18, 2021 by Syndrome

[WinterH]

Flight model really feels good imo. For people looking for character, it oozes that.

This is the first helo in DCS where I really have to be mindful of retreating blade stall all the time. Others overall couldn't get fast enough to worry about it most of the time, apart from the Ka-50, which still doesn't need to worry about it too much thanks to coaxial rotor design.

It has both Mi-8 and UH-1 kinda feeling to it, but also lots of own character.

It gets to 300 km/h before you know it. I am personally having problems remaining somewhat slow, or slowing down when I want to . VRS is also something to be mindful of like the Mi-8. When up to some speed and trimmed nicely, it can be very, very stable as a weapons platform.

 

[wowbagger]

3 hours ago, WinterH said:

... I am personally having problems remaining somewhat slow, or slowing down when I want to . VRS is also something to be mindful of like the Mi-8. When up to some speed and trimmed nicely, it can be very, very stable as a weapons platform.

 

 

I have that problem too. Slowing down requires a lot of forethought and planning. Landing feels more like trapping a Tomcat than plunking a Huey down on the pad.

[HellToupee]

8 hours ago, XPACT said:

I tried to replicate it both slow and at 300km/h, collective fully down and nose up, I over revved rotor at 300km/h one but there was still no sudden pitch up. Post a short track file and I will gladly take a look at it.

 

 

I get it but not consistantly like something causes the cog to shift, where sometimes its stable as even yanking on the stick and others its pulling kobras out of nowhere. 

[Fri13]

4 hours ago, WinterH said:

 I am personally having problems remaining somewhat slow, or slowing down when I want to . VRS is also something to be mindful of like the Mi-8. When up to some speed and trimmed nicely, it can be very, very stable as a weapons platform.

 

It is easy to fly slow (50-70 kph), but you can't do any combat that way because your nose is so high up. 

That means,

- You can't perform a ATGM attack from hover or at slow speed because you can't get ASP-17 sight on target without speeding up.

- You can't aim rockets easily as it will accelerate.

- You can't use cannon, pods or anything if you want to aim, anyways recoil push nose down.

 

This is where the Mi-24V would have rocked, as you hover and let the operator just shoot around.

 

The Mi-24P is really for the speed. Get 100-300 kph and it does very stable manner everything. Interestingly it does so better than KA-50.

Edited June 18, 2021 by Fri13

[frumpy]

What do you say about the ground effect? I don't feel much of it. Flying the R-22 in Aerofly (which is supposed to be the most realistic recreation of flight dynamics on homecomputers), I can basically just set the throttle to descent, then near the ground it slows down and flys level. Just like a walk in the park. Not so with the Hind, is this realistic?

[S. Low]

3 hours ago, wowbagger said:

 

I have that problem too. Slowing down requires a lot of forethought and planning. Landing feels more like trapping a Tomcat than plunking a Huey down on the pad.

It’s exactly this, though I find that bleeding airspeed from 270 down to 50-70 is quick and easy, but managing the final bit of airspeed requires more pitch up than you initially are comfortable with because you’re blind. Gotta angle the nose away from where your landing pad is

[lee1hy]

So far, there are no verification data on the accuracy of the DCS flight model. This is just a game. It's not right to follow FM.

[M1Combat]

The KA50 does pitch up just not until about 425KMH.  At 550KMH you have to hold full stick forwards with super low blade pitch to keep it from doing the exact same thing the 24 does.

 

Also...  At those speeds it will show you why it's called the Shark ;).  Gentle weave side to side :).

[Rogue Trooper]

On 6/17/2021 at 5:11 PM, sublime said:

Yeah trying to land from a hover or even enter to a hover is a ***** for me right now. Lol

A rolling landing is as sweet as it gets in the Hind.

Edited June 18, 2021 by Rogue Trooper

[sublime]

It's a lot less stressful. I was just rdg your rotor bend thread I'm gonna go try to reproduce that.

I have noticed the rotor being indestructible rn as ED alrdy knows 

I find myself subconsciously angle my rotor to shield towards threats

 

[Fri13]

9 hours ago, frumpy said:

What do you say about the ground effect? I don't feel much of it. 

 

It is there. At least I get to feel it. 

[Rogue Trooper]

6 minutes ago, sublime said:

It's a lot less stressful. I was just rdg your rotor bend thread I'm gonna go try to reproduce that.

I have noticed the rotor being indestructible rn as ED alrdy knows 

I find myself subconsciously angle my rotor to shield towards threats

 

Yeah I think aerobatics is out with this girl.

The rolling landing is very nice and easy.

Once the Hover trim is learnt and learnt as default, coming to a hover and landing will be easy too.

Edited June 18, 2021 by Rogue Trooper

[Northstar98]

The Hind has taught me that I definitely need an upgrade over using the keyboard for the anti-torque and collective.

 

The one thing that catches me out a fair bit compared to other helicopters is that the tail rotor induces a significant amount of roll - something I don't notice in other helicopters.

 

The other thing is the lack of audible feedback when transitioning into ETL and when approaching and in VRS. Transitioning out of ETL is more noticeable, if that is indeed what I'm hearing.

Edited June 18, 2021 by Northstar98

[Rogue Trooper]

9 hours ago, frumpy said:

What do you say about the ground effect? I don't feel much of it. Flying the R-22 in Aerofly (which is supposed to be the most realistic recreation of flight dynamics on homecomputers), I can basically just set the throttle to descent, then near the ground it slows down and flys level. Just like a walk in the park. Not so with the Hind, is this realistic?

Does not sound like any R-22 I have flown IRL.... those things are twitchy... rudders instant and always needing adjustment or correcting poor adjustments. collective constantly needs adjusting and then there is the cyclic!!  

Edited June 18, 2021 by Rogue Trooper

[Rogue Trooper]

41 minutes ago, Northstar98 said:

The Hind has taught me that I definitely need an upgrade over using the keyboard for the anti-torque and collective.

 

The one thing that catches me out a fair bit compared to other helicopters is that the tail rotor induces a significant amount of roll - something I don't notice in other helicopters.

 

The other thing is the lack of audible feedback when transitioning into ETL and when approaching and in VRS. Transitioning out of ETL is more noticeable, if that is indeed what I'm hearing.

 

Must have pedals for chopper work.

You will never regret their purchase when flying choppers!

[Northstar98]

30 minutes ago, Rogue Trooper said:

Must have pedals for chopper work.

You will never regret their purchase when flying choppers!

 

I mean, I've been making do without pedals for nearly 2 years, but the Hind is making me realise that I need to make the jump.

 

The Huey I don't have a problem with at all, Hip is a little difficult, but the Hind is something else, especially on takeoff and landings.

[Rogue Trooper]

1 minute ago, Northstar98 said:

 

I mean, I've been making do without pedals for nearly 2 years, but the Hind is making me realise that I need to make the jump.

 

The Huey I don't have a problem with at all, Hip is a little difficult, but the Hind is something else, especially on takeoff and landings.

I have a feeling it is a whole new level of FM.... I do not know really.

[Northstar98]

4 minutes ago, Rogue Trooper said:

I have a feeling it is a whole new level of FM.... I do not know really.

 

With the tail rotor, definitely - I notice it causes significantly more roll than the others.

 

With the Huey at least, on takeoff I can put the controls into a sorta magic position where I only really need to touch the collective, so it works with the keyboard (keyboard progressively controls anti-torque, instead of returning to centre each time).

 

However, in the Hind, because I can't make simultaneous control inputs (I can do cyclic and anti-torque and that's it, I can't do cyclic and collective, nor can I do collective and anti-torque) which makes the Hind exceptionally difficult.

 

Once I'm up in the air it's less of a handful. Though note that I'm electing not to use the autopilot - simply because if I feel like I can do it without the autopilot helping me, I can definitely do it with.

Edited June 18, 2021 by Northstar98