Force Trim

[Dallas88B]

@Raptor9 Thank you.

I did not know copy was updated at C:\Eagle Dynamics\DCS World OpenBeta\Mods\aircraft\AH-64D\Doc .

I looked at DCS site documentation.... https://www.digitalcombatsimulator.com/en/downloads/documentation/AH64D_flight_manual_en/

Stupid me.

Thanks again.

[Raptor9]

@Dallas88B, that will be where all the manuals are normally kept and updated for all the modules. Allows them to get pushed to the users during updating. Each module has a Doc folder for this purpose.

[Dallas88B]

58 minutes ago, Raptor9 said:

that will be where all the manuals are normally kept and updated for all the modules

All these years and I never knew that.

Edited July 28, 2022 by Dallas88B

[Raptor9]

@Dallas88B, I do want to clarify that the new Flight Controls section contains specific criteria and conditions for how the hold modes should work, but there are some identified issues that are still being worked on to bring the module to where it needs to be.

As usual, this will take time, but we'll get there.

[Dallas88B]

@Raptor9 Thank you for your further comments. Helpful of you. Cheers.

[TZeer]

Back from work now, so had a quick test on the Position Hold in combination with giving yaw inputs to change heading.

As @Raptor9 mentioned earlier, the SCAS is fighting every input I do on my pedals, until the SCAS get saturated and "gives up" and finally starts turning the chopper.
When trying to turn the other way again, it's extremely sensitive, but doable, as long as you are handling the pedals as it's the finest crystal.

It does not seem like the SCAS likes what I'm trying to do, as it really starts "acting" up, and struggles to keep Position Hold active. 

[FlyBaby]

On 7/23/2022 at 12:37 PM, dburne said:

Well I gotta say I think I am about done with the Apache now. And it tears me up to think I even invested in a Virpil Collective just for this thing. Over 100 hours invested in trying to learn the Apache and I still can not transition from forward flight to a hover cleanly at least half the time.  Typically ends up with the chopper spinning wildly and out of control. Forget trying to transition to a hover over a landing pad and being able to actually land this thing. It is absolutely nuts that I can do it sometimes but just can not be consistent with it at all.

Think I will go back to my Hornet flying for a while. At least the time I put into it has paid off for me, unlike the Apache. Yeah I am pretty disgusted with the Apache at this point.

I agree here, full Virpil setup as well (stick, throttle, rudder).

Even when engaging the ATT Hold (with no other Trim Set) and holding rudder direction with pedals for stability, I sometimes lose rudder control when disengaging ATT Hold). There is some rudder error involved independent of the different types of options for rudder force trim (as I have mine set off, and just use ATT HOLD and manually use pedals to hold rudder). Hover mode just bobs back and forth trying to find the center / stable hold.

Also, I get the Heli lurching to the left at odd times when in ATT Hold. ALT hold does not work for me at all.

I will just have to give it more time for updates, but the current issues just ruin the gameplay. The Heli seems so unstable despite all of these systems. 

 

 

 

[GrEaSeLiTeNiN]

I agree here, full Virpil setup as well (stick, throttle, rudder).
Even when engaging the ATT Hold (with no other Trim Set) and holding rudder direction with pedals for stability, I sometimes lose rudder control when disengaging ATT Hold). There is some rudder error involved independent of the different types of options for rudder force trim (as I have mine set off, and just use ATT HOLD and manually use pedals to hold rudder). Hover mode just bobs back and forth trying to find the center / stable hold.
Also, I get the Heli lurching to the left at odd times when in ATT Hold. ALT hold does not work for me at all.
I will just have to give it more time for updates, but the current issues just ruin the gameplay. The Heli seems so unstable despite all of these systems. 
 
 
 

Yeah similar frustrations but with a desktop warthog and VKB T setup which isn’t helo friendly. Anyhow, I set Apache missions with no wind, cold, low altitudes. Every bit helps.

I find transition to OGE hover can work with ATT and ALT hold when done carefully and ‘it all goes smoothly’. But sometimes when things go wrong it gets crazy, yeah the helo is all over the place. It’s just so out of character to spend minutes trying to tame a rodeo helo infront of your enemy location. They must be watching with amusement.

Went back to the joyful Black Shark and lately revisiting the F16. Taking a break from the Arghpache. Hope they fix the FM soon. It’s the Achilles heel of an otherwise great module.

[Dallas88B]

2 hours ago, GrEaSeLiTeNiN said:

But sometimes when things go wrong it gets crazy, yeah the helo is all over the place. It’s just so out of character to spend minutes trying to tame a rodeo helo infront of your enemy location.

Sure do agree with that

2 hours ago, GrEaSeLiTeNiN said:

Hope they fix the FM soon

Absolutely.

 

What I dislike now, especially given the obvious erratic behaviour of the Apache, is the condescending 'I ain't providing tips; your an idiot just practice' attitude prevalent on some dcs discords. The software has moved on since release and out of date, 3 and 4 month old YT vids don't cut it.

I do hope ED does not move onto the next module and the FM we have is the end state.

[Raptor9]

8 hours ago, Dallas88B said:

I do hope ED does not move onto the next module and the FM we have is the end state.

Of course not. The module hasn't even been out for 5 months yet. Ths F-16 and F-18 have been out for years and are still getting flight model fixes to ensure their accuracy.

I've read many forum posts over the years stating such things and they're simply not true. When people post such things, in my opinion they are generally just trying to cause drama because of some form of frustration or impatience. Not saying that's what you are doing here, but if you've read such claims in the past that is usually the reason.

[Raptor9]

4 hours ago, Dallas88B said:

Regardless, my stated hope was just that, my genuine hope. I was not wanting to be offensive to ED or trying to cause drama. 

Of course. I didn't think you were.

[Hotdognz]

Well no more issues with force trim anymore, just moved to the new Winwing Orion Stick Base J2-2 with a F16EX stick and 170mm extension and using the damping kit which you buy as an extra.

This is a game changer for me in all the helicopters in DCS and especially the Apache, the Apache has just become so much easier to fly, I can even get it into a stable hover without using the hold modes.

I'm impressed by the Wingwing construction, its as good as the Virpil gear I have and so much better than the TM Warthog I had for 8 years

This video gives a good review and whilst its a paid sponsors video I found it informative enough to make the decision to buy and could see everything i wanted to see, after getting it this video does not really show how good it really is.
 

 

Edited August 17, 2022 by Hotdognz

[Dallas88B]

3 hours ago, Hotdognz said:

no more issues with force trim anymore

Thanks for posting that. Looks good. What mount dd you use for the stick?

[Hotdognz]

2 hours ago, Dallas88B said:

Thanks for posting that. Looks good. What mount dd you use for the stick?

I had to make a custom mount for my simrig

[Floyd1212]

I'm intrigued by the damper option on the base.  I wish VirPil would see that market and develop something similar for their bases.

What would be killer is a powered drive on that screw that tightens down the clamps electronically, so that you can map a button on the stick to release the clamps or tighten them down.  That would give it a better "force trim" feel.

[Dallas88B]

On 8/18/2022 at 1:48 PM, Floyd1212 said:

I wish VirPil would see that market and develop something similar for their bases.

Seems they have something in mind... though the teaser ain't really full of detail :

https://forum.virpil.com/index.php?/topic/11807-welcome-to-the-pilots-seat-virpil-controls-teaser/

.... guess thats why they call it a teaser.

I wish they would fix or redesign their collective. The dcs thread 'Virpil collective base plus - had to increase friction after 2 weeks use' has been helpful. There are solutions using counter weights or motor cycle steering dampers that one can buy elsewhere and retrofit. So there is that.

Edited August 25, 2022 by Dallas88B
corrected font size I had used

[pii]

On 8/8/2022 at 1:08 AM, Dallas88B said:

Sure do agree with that

Absolutely.

 

What I dislike now, especially given the obvious erratic behaviour of the Apache, is the condescending 'I ain't providing tips; your an idiot just practice' attitude prevalent on some dcs discords. The software has moved on since release and out of date, 3 and 4 month old YT vids don't cut it.

I do hope ED does not move onto the next module and the FM we have is the end state.

I'd say relax your worries they will be working on this Module for years to come. I'm sure some of that time will be spent on the FM.

[Jojothebox]

anyone having issues with Altitude Hold? I can only seem to get Baro Alt Hold to display which causes the aircraft to descend then over compensate eventually causing the helo hit the ground, Rad Alt Hold just does not appear. can anyone help with this?

[Floyd1212]

I don't think you are doing anything wrong; it is just how the ALT Hold is working at the moment.

[pii]

On 8/17/2022 at 5:26 PM, Hotdognz said:

This is a game changer for me in all the helicopters in DCS and especially the Apache, the Apache has just become so much easier to fly, I can even get it into a stable hover without using the hold modes.

I changed from a Warthog HOTAS to a virpil base, so virpil base and WH stick and it made ALLLLLLLLLL the difference. I went from a flying rock to a killer pilot (in my head) but seriously it was and is a night and day difference.  

[poochies]

Do you still get the odd sudden bank to the left like a large wind just blew you over in a hover ? Very annoying when you have a perfect hover no SAS saturation and this happens repeatedly, I'm putting this on the shelf until the FM gets figured out, I'm still glad I bought it in EA though shes a beauty

[Swift.]

On 11/3/2022 at 12:19 AM, poochies said:

Do you still get the odd sudden bank to the left like a large wind just blew you over in a hover ? Very annoying when you have a perfect hover no SAS saturation and this happens repeatedly, I'm putting this on the shelf until the FM gets figured out, I'm still glad I bought it in EA though shes a beauty

I've personally never seen anything like that. Could it be a double binding issue?

[martinistripes]

On 8/8/2022 at 3:00 AM, FlyBaby said:

I agree here, full Virpil setup as well (stick, throttle, rudder).

...

I will just have to give it more time for updates, but the current issues just ruin the gameplay. The Heli seems so unstable despite all of these systems. 

 

 

 

I've been using a MS Sidewinder FFB 2 for years now. I do own Virpil HOTAS also.

Recently, I bought the Gladiator NXT EVO with the F-14 grip because, (a) I wanted a portable all-in-one solution and (b) because I've been spending more time in the Tomcat recently. My Tomcat experience has improved considerably with the new controller.

Rather than get my sidewinder back out for using the Apache I've been trying to use the non-FFB Gladiator and all I can say is, it's not working for me anymore. I've tried the different trimmer options and I'm just not happy flying a helicopter without the FFB. The central position trimmer option, you get no response from time to time when don't fully recenter. And you lose track of where your stick and pedals are trimmed to. And the no springs, no FFB option, you literally cannot take your hand off the stick without pitching up.

ED have given us the software. Now someone (VKB or Virpil?) needs to offer suitable hardware. And we don't all want a big industrial unit only suitable for home cockpit builds.

Edited November 16, 2022 by martinistripes

[petsild]

On 11/16/2022 at 6:18 PM, martinistripes said:

I've been using a MS Sidewinder FFB 2 for years now. I do own Virpil HOTAS also.

Recently, I bought the Gladiator NXT EVO with the F-14 grip because, (a) I wanted a portable all-in-one solution and (b) because I've been spending more time in the Tomcat recently. My Tomcat experience has improved considerably with the new controller.

Rather than get my sidewinder back out for using the Apache I've been trying to use the non-FFB Gladiator and all I can say is, it's not working for me anymore. I've tried the different trimmer options and I'm just not happy flying a helicopter without the FFB. The central position trimmer option, you get no response from time to time when don't fully recenter. And you lose track of where your stick and pedals are trimmed to. And the no springs, no FFB option, you literally cannot take your hand off the stick without pitching up.

ED have given us the software. Now someone (VKB or Virpil?) needs to offer suitable hardware. And we don't all want a big industrial unit only suitable for home cockpit builds.

 

Hi,

from my own experience, I recommend the native VKB trim solution.

Helicopter style Trim

[Kayos]

I am having a hard time with the TRIM !  

Anyone with a X65F, which option works best for you?  Those without a X65F, which would you use if your stick doesn't actually ever move?

Other helo's I don't have a problem, Apache, can't find anything that works.