w.i.p. VRP & VIP

[Moonshine]

VIP and VRP are no delivery modes and should not be bound to one as such. 
when VIP or VRP are enabled, delivery modes will display such in the HUD

some examples: 

VIPCRP -Visual initial point/CCRP submode
VIPLAD -Visual initial point/LADD submode
VIP EO -Visual initial point/EO submode
VRPCRP - Visual reference point/CCRP submode
VRPLAD -Visual reference point/LADD submode
VRP EO - Visual reference point/EO submode
HRMVIP - HARM visual initial point submode
HRMVRP -HARM visual reference point submode

 

However, i could not find any mention about VIP in CCIP and am not sure if it should still display the VIP location, even if CCIP does not make specific use of it like the other delivery modes do

[Lace]

After the pop and pull-down and visually identifying the target I 'MSL STEP/NWS' to CCIP, pickle, and fly the planned pull out and egress to OAP2.

Since starting this thread I have played with VRP/VIP and OAPs quite a bit and they are pretty useful for precise pop-up attacks.

[Moonshine]

yeah sadly OAs are currently bugged (https://forum.dcs.world/topic/315005-offset-aimpoint-logic-after-latest-update-dcs-28134437/)

such a handy feature if its working correctly, makes low alt ingresses much more fun

 

[Machalot]

All these Viper pilots discovering their inner Viggen driver!

[VarZat]

2 minutes ago, Machalot said:

All these Viper pilots discovering their inner Viggen driver!

As a total viper fan, the Viggen is awesome.

[TobiasA]

vor 37 Minuten schrieb VarZat:

As a total viper fan, the Viggen is awesome.

This.

[Sinclair_76]

On 1/30/2023 at 7:53 AM, Machalot said:

Does anyone believe we'll still have GPS on Day 2 of any war with a near peer? 

Sure. If it really was an issue Ukraine would be without GPS. Unless of course you don't consider Russia near peer....

[Machalot]

2 hours ago, Sinclair_76 said:

Sure. If it really was an issue Ukraine would be without GPS. Unless of course you don't consider Russia near peer....

My point was about pilot training in peacetime for GPS-denied operations, in preparation for a hypothetical war between the US and a near peer.  

I have no specific knowledge about what's going on with GPS in Ukraine, but would you be surprised if Russia is jamming it? 

[_SteelFalcon_]

11 minutes ago, Machalot said:

My point was about pilot training in peacetime for GPS-denied operations, in preparation for a hypothetical war between the US and a near peer.  

I have no specific knowledge about what's going on with GPS in Ukraine, but would you be surprised if Russia is jamming it? 

what does that have to do with VIP/VRP?

[Machalot]

39 minutes ago, _SteelFalcon_ said:

what does that have to do with VIP/VRP?

The comment I replied to said VIP/VRP are not relevant or not trained anymore in the era of GPS aided navigation.  There was a pre-GPS era and there may well be a post-GPS era too.

 

Edited February 1, 2023 by Machalot

[Delta-canard]

Reviving an old thread but I'm new to the Viper and was doing the last training mission. This technique might  antiquated, it clearly is fun.

But each time I tried, my bombs fell long behind the targeted factory, even when I was pretty closely keeping the correct flight parameters. I only scored a hit when I switched at the last moment to CCIP and manually released the bombs. Is it just me or is there a problem with CCRP?

BTW, I'm coming from the Harrier where CCRP has been bugged for a long time so I only used it for LGBs.

[BIGNEWY]

Hi, 

It is impossible to know without a track, but probably bad alignment. 

If you can supply a short as possible track replay example we can check it out. 

thank you

[skywalker22]

I tested VIP ones again and I must confirm there is definitely something wrong. I tested this custom mission 10 times, always same result: not even close of dropping the bombs. I also tried without PUP function, and the same thing (PUP is only for some orientation when to pull up, it can be easily flown without it).

Whats wrong:

- target point way off

- there is a circle for Pull up point, but gets lost on the way to there

- IP point is on the correct azimuth but there seems to be an issue with elevation: inserted value for the elevation is ground depended (radar altitude, and not barometric altitude - IS THAT OK??) My examle: target was 2368ft MSL, and inserted 2368. But IP point was 2368ft over the ground there, which means it was 4736ft MSL. What elevation should it be inserted, MSL or over ground? - maybe is this the cause of all my problems?

 

 

Edited July 11, 2024 by skywalker22

[skywalker22]

VRP is also not OK. I can drop the bombs (surely, since waypoint is over the target), but the guidance of VRP is not ok. Whats wrong:

- RP point has the same "issue" as I described in previous post for IP point

- Pull up Point not working, I can see the circle, but gets lost on the way to there (same as for VIP)

 

Edited July 6, 2024 by skywalker22

[Eviscerador]

1 hour ago, skywalker22 said:

I tested VIP ones again and I must confirm there is definitely something wrong, or not just something, a lot. I tested this custom mission 10 times, always same result: not even close of dropping the bombs. I also tried without PUP function, and the same thing (PUP is only for some orientation when to pull up, it can be easily flown without it).

Whats wrong:

- target point way off

- There is a circle for pull up point, but gets lost on the way to there

- IP point is on the correct azimuth but there seems to be an issue with elevation: inserted value for the elevation is ground depended (radar altitude, and not barometric altitude - IS THAT OK??) My examle: target was 2368ft MSL, and inserted 2368. But IP point was 2368ft over the ground there (which means it was 4736fr MSL).

- in CCRP mode, if you look on the bottom right of the HUD, the Time To Go is messing a lot (jumping up and down like crazy), can't rely on it, distance to steerpoint seems OK

f-16_mode_VIP_issue.trk 2.51 MB · 0 downloads

 

Concerning the elevation, you have to consider that all IP and RP elevation parameters are DELTAS. So if the target is 2368 MSL and you want the RP to be at the same altitude, you have to set the elevation to 0ft (no delta) as you can see when you set the elevation to 2368, the real MSL is as expected, 4736.

I was using the VRP function just today and I didn't find any issues, but I will test it again tomorrow.

Edited June 12, 2024 by Eviscerador

[skywalker22]

7 minutes ago, Eviscerador said:

Concerning the elevation, you have to consider that all IP and RP elevation parameters are DELTAS. So if the target is 2368 MSL and you want the RP to be at the same altitude, you have to set the elevation to 0ft (no delta) as you can see when you set the elevation to 2368, the real MSL is as expected, 4736.

I get it for the RP (in a way). But what about for the IP? Does it take into account the waypoint from which I'm going to (in my case waypoint no. 2)? Its easy to do that (like Wags did) at the sea level, but on the higher terrain it can get way trickier setting the correct altitude.

[skywalker22]

VRP: This time around I set the Elevation to zero feet, and it seems that RP point and Pull up point seem to be fine.

Didn't know the elevations are deltas, now it makes more sence.

--

What about the VIP, how to set the elevation for it? How do I determine the elevation of the target?

 

EDITED for VIP: as far as I understand, Target point is also elevation relative to the IP point (also a delta as we called it in previous posts).

So what to insert in case if the IP point is higher then the Target point? It should be negative value, right? 

To insert a negative value, we just need to press the "0 M -SEL" on the ICP twice.

Mr. @Wags what do you say about it, am I right? Asking, cause I didn't test that yesterday, and I won't be able to do that today.

Edited June 13, 2024 by skywalker22

[Eviscerador]

9 hours ago, skywalker22 said:

VRP: This time around I set the Elevation to zero feet, and it seems that RP point and Pull up point seem to be fine.

Didn't know the elevations are deltas, now it makes more sence.

--

What about the VIP, how to set the elevation for it? How do I determine the elevation of the target?

 

EDITED for VIP: as far as I understand, Target point is also elevation relative to the IP point (also a delta as we called it in previous posts).

So what to insert in case if the IP point is higher then the Target point? It should be negative value, right? 

To insert a negative value, we just need to press the "0 M -SEL" on the ICP.

Mr. @Wags what do you say about it, am I right? Asking, cause I didn't test that yesterday, and I won't be able to do that today.

 

You are correct. For IP the altitude is also a Delta and in case you want to put it in negatives you need to press the M-SEL button.

[Antiguedad]

I've been creating various OA1, OA2, PUP and VIP and I think currently it modelled like this:

A. If you put an elevation of 0, the created point has the same altitude as the steerpoint. For example, if steerpoint has an MSL elevation of 12000 ft, the created points have the same elevation, 12000 ft MSL. So, uses Delta=0 value.

B. If you put an elevation different than 0, the created points have the absolute value AGL of the elevation. For example, if you put an elevation of 52 ft, the points are created at 52 ft AGL. If you put -1, the points are created at -1. So, uses absolute AGL elevation value.

This maybe is a bug:

• Input Elevation = 0 -> uses a delta value of 0 -> OA1, OA2, VIP, PUP are at the same level than steerpoint.
• Input Elevation not 0 -> uses AGL elevation.

Please, could you check if this is the expected behaviour?

Edit. You can check effective point elevations with TGP and OSB10.

Edited November 15, 2024 by Antiguedad